A tosser or a dag?

As we have seen this week, there has been a lot of discussion about Rudd and his use of ‘strine’ to make out that he is a real fair dinkum aussie. I have mates that actually talk like Rudd did the other night. And I mean the traditional aussie slang (ya drongo, hooroo, fair suck of the sav) not the new slang (fully sick).

I reckon that he is just a dag. You know – like the uncle at a wedding that tries to be cool and down with the kids.

Our last PM (you know – the one who lost his seat at the election) was also a bit of a dag too. Wearing the  trackie when walking, his “Happy Feet” photo, his attempt at bowling.

And so the question is – is Rudd just a dag, or is he a tosser? And does it matter?

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184 Responses

  1. “Fair suck of the sav” ? Traditional, hardly, trendy perhaps. Sounds like something you would hear in trendy wine bars.
    “Fair suck of the sauce bottle” is traditional as far as any ancient beer drinkers who remember the days of drinking out of long necks, not those trendy stubbies, are concerned.
    Rudd? Either way, dag or tosser, he’s a bit shonky.

  2. A tosser or a dag? A manipulator blinded by his ego (or spin doctors) more likely. Does he really think the public can’t see through this attempt at being one of the blokes?

    A religious, nerdy, holier-than-thou type who would be always be shunned at a suburban bbq as a boring bastard.

  3. But that is what I mean – the public can see through the facade, but does it really matter?

  4. I believe it was a poor attempt by the PM to enhance his popularity which backfired to a certain extent.

    It is a character flaw which I suspect was shaped by the “had to sit at the front of the school bus because all the other kids picked on him” type of scenario.

    I just wish he would drop this type of stuff and concentrate on the issues of the day and attempt to display the leadership required by the highest office holder in the land.

  5. joni, on June 13th, 2009 at 9:18 am Said:
    “But that is what I mean – the public can see through the facade, but does it really matter?”

    In a round about way the question is asking does Rudd really matter.

  6. A religious, nerdy, holier-than-thou type who would be always be shunned at a suburban bbq as a boring bastard.

    I agree.

    Does it matter? Yes. Saying things like “fair shake of the sauce bottle” is hardly becoming of a nation’s leader.

    It’s just cringeworthy.

    However most Australians probably won’t care. The majority of Australians thought Steve Irwin was a legend.

    Maybe Rudd should get himself a safari suit to complete the makeover…?

  7. Yes, I think it does matter, Joni. It proves he’s a strawman just like every other politician.

    If a man’s a genuine toff like Malcolm Fraser or a dag like Bob Green or a nouveau silvertail like Malcolm Turnbull or a bushie like Katter, I would prefer them to be honest and stay in character rather than take on what they see as the ‘battlers’, or any other, persona. It’s demeaning for everyone.

    I think we’re seeing the Rudd facade breaking down now and it will interesting to watch the polls from now on.

  8. But that is what I mean – the public can see through the facade, but does it really matter?

    If you mean would I, personally, prefer a tosser or a non-tosser as Prime Minister of Australia; the answer is non-tosser.

    If you mean does it matter to me, personally, that the Prime Minister we already have has turned out to be a tosser; the answer is yes, but I’ll have to put up with him, at least until the election.

    The real question will be answered at that next election: Do the majority of voters believe Rudd is enough of a tosser not re-elect him? Somehow, I don’t think so.

  9. Daphon, on June 13th, 2009 at 9:31 am Said:
    “Yes, I think it does matter, Joni. It proves he’s a strawman just like every other politician.”

    Bunging it on, wins few friends.

  10. Good points everyone – yeah – it is a stupid tactic, and one that we will have to see if it backfires.

  11. “The majority of Australians thought Steve Irwin was a legend.”

    Is that true, Reb? I know in my Internet wanderings many Americans certainly saw/see him that way.

    I do move in exalted circles of course 😉 , but I don’t have any friends who like Irwin or held him in any sort of regard.

    I think it was the same for Crocodile Dundee: the character appealed more to foreigners because that’s how many of them see us. Whereas for most Aussies, many of whom have never been west of the Great Divide, or even seen a true Aborigine, or kangaroo outside of a zoo, know it’s all bullshit.

  12. Gotta run – gotta head to the climate change rally. Play nicely everyone.

  13. That should have been Bob Brown up above, of course. :oops

  14. Don’t forget to rug-up, Joni. 😉

  15. Joni, enjoy the rally, I won’t go off topic so I’ll post the link on the weekend thread.

  16. reb, on June 13th, 2009 at 9:31 am Said:
    “It’s just cringeworthy.”

    What I felt was exceptionally cringeworthy was his “Adios” to Sol Trujillo.

  17. JohnD,

    I liked the ‘Adios’, JohnD. I think it summed up in one word how most Aussies (at least amongst my acquaintances) thought of Trujillo (nothing to do with his heritage, but all to do with his arrogance and failure as a CEO).

    It was a truly Australian moment (no, can’t define that), but I think it’s something Hawke, Keating or Whitlam might have said too.

  18. Actually I quite liked the “Adios” quip.

    Very Keating-esque as Daphon points out…

  19. I didn’t think much of the “adios” thing at all.

    If I was the PM I would have responded with “I wish him the best with his future endeavours.”

  20. How can I make you like the “adios” quip??!!

  21. Being a Sinophile, Mr Rudd could have used the ‘Chinese Curse’, “May he live in interesting times.”

  22. Or the PM could have just said “he can go and get f**ked!”

  23. Daphon / Reb, yes, very Australian.
    Perhaps it did go down well with some Australians, it’s resonance might have led to Rudds minders introducing some more of these sayings that they think might also resonate with the voters.
    Personally I think he lowered himself on the world stage, as a leader.

    I have always made a point, in instances even where somebody has had to be dismissed, to allow them to retain their dignity, irrespective of the circumstances.
    Making snide or smart arse remarks don’t go unnoticed, especially amongst your peers.

  24. scaper…, on June 13th, 2009 at 10:13 am Said:
    “If I was the PM I would have responded with “I wish him the best with his future endeavours.”

    Totally agree.

  25. LOL!! Scaper…!!!

  26. Well a one word quip from Rudd which I think really hit the target (as in he summed the whole Trujillo experience up nicely), was better than Rudd’s standard ask himself a question then waffle on with some meaningless answer.

    I think we’re lucky to be able to use one word to create an image: who can deny ‘drongo’ or ‘bogan’ as triggers for creating perfect mind pictures?

  27. “If I was the PM I would have responded with “I wish him the best with his future endeavours.”

    That’s politician-speak: pure spin and dishonest.

    No, I standby what I said: the ‘Adios’ was a perfect moment in Australian politics.

  28. The bloke’s just trying to do something about his public image. Ten out of ten for trying. Too bad if nobody likes it: they can keep complaining that he’s boring.

    Instead, they now complain because he’s trying.

    Howard did the same thing when he was Mr 14%. One day he came out all jived up and matey and we all laughed at him. Like we are now doing to Rudd.

    It worked for Howard.

  29. The ducks in the bathroom are not mine.

  30. But reb, what about all those dogs?

  31. “That’s politician-speak: pure spin and dishonest.”

    I disagree.

    I have used that phrase with employees who I’ve dismissed and who have resigned, if things did not work out there is no reason to not end the association with honour and dignity.

  32. I agree Daphon, the Adios was just perfect and we all knew what it meant as in scaper’s go and get f**ked. I doubt that many Australians especially the mums and dads investors would argue with this one.

  33. Migs,

    That’s just a looped recording.

  34. For those disturbed by the seemingly meaningless exchange between reb and myself, I’ll post something on Frolykz that will explain the ducks in the bath and the looped recordings.

  35. scaper…, on June 13th, 2009 at 10:46 am Said:
    “I disagree.

    I have used that phrase with employees who I’ve dismissed and who have resigned, if things did not work out there is no reason to not end the association with honour and dignity.”

    Exactly. If an employer is so mean spirted that he cannot genuinely extend such wishes, he is not going to find the best people wanting to work for him.
    I think Rudd might be finding that out already.

  36. Have to do it later. Vistors just arrived. Door bell is about to ring and the dogs will go into a frenzy.

  37. “I have used that phrase with employees who I’ve dismissed and who have resigned ….”

    Yes, so have I. But I think this was a different scenario. Trujillo caused a lot of damage to an icon Australian company and heartache to thousands – not just investors but also customers.

    Not quite the same but when the NSW govt is given the boot next election I certainly won’t be sugar-coating their dismissal with weasel words.

  38. Oh c’mon off John, he’s lowered himself on the world stage? More of this conservative triviality in attempting to denigrate Rudd by blowing up what are banalities into supposed world shattering stuff ups. It started before Rudd was elected and has been relentless to this day as typified by your statement.

    I think Rudd is a dag and Howard was a true tosser, yet Howard got elected several times even though in polls on honesty he rated very badly. The latest Morgan phone poll done after Rudd’s daggy use of colloquialisms has Labor increasing their lead over the opposition, so basically the whole thing is meaningless and yet another vacuous whipping post for those who still have sour grapes that their tosser hero got kicked out at the last election.

  39. Good one Adrian. And so the answer to joni’s question Does it matter? The answer is clearly No, it doesn’t.

  40. Trujillo caused a lot of damage to an icon Australian company and heartache to thousands – not just investors but also customers.

    Daphon, you forgot the heartache to Telstra’s employees – WorkChoices.

  41. Mobuis

    Disagree – I think they both have the “dag gene” and sometimes they try to be cool and they are just not the type.

    Like me, I am so unhip it’s a wonder my bum does not fall off.

    * joke courtesy of the late great D.Adams.

  42. Mobius Ecko, on June 13th, 2009 at 12:51 pm Said:
    “yet Howard got elected several times even though in polls on honesty he rated very badly. The latest Morgan phone poll done after Rudd’s daggy use of colloquialisms has Labor increasing their lead over the opposition,”

    Meaningless? Do you mean the polls?

  43. Here is a comment from Jack the Insider in relation to the PM.

    “When we say behind closed doors, we are talking about meetings with VIPs, relations with staff in the PMO et cetera, Victoria. Without going into any details, I can assure you that the PMs manner in private is decidedly different to his public persona. There have been outbursts that have left some people mouth agape in shock. These are people I would not consider easily shocked. It has been put to me by one former senior staffer that in an IR sense, he has never seen anything like it and wonders how Rudd can get anybody to work for him at all. Let’s not forget that a number of staff in the PMO are PAs (there are four PAs in the PMOs office in my experience – it may be more now) – relatively low level public servants. I can tell you that Keating never treated his staff in the same manner. Keating was loved by his staff. In fact, after the 1996 election, he spent two days on the phones finding them jobs. There were never any savage tantrums and vicious personal attacks. I can only compare these two PMs. With this knowledge, one might pause and reflect on why the public Kevin is so clunky and painfully awkward and conclude that public Kevin is not the real Kevin at all.”

    An interesting insight in my opinion.

    http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/jacktheinsider/index.php/theaustralian/comments/the_linguistic_adventures_of_kevvy_ruddenzie/P225/

  44. “you forgot the heartache to Telstra’s employees”

    A MAJOR omission, RN. Thanks for picking it up.

  45. Joni..Adrian has it, Rudd is a dag and Howard was/is a tosser. I personally would have more of a problem if the PM wore his hat back to front and said Yay Bro’ rather than some Australianisms.

    And re being unhip..I’ve seen the pics..you have plenty of hip.

  46. scaper…, on June 13th, 2009 at 12:56 pm Said:
    “Here is a comment from Jack the Insider in relation to the PM.”

    Diverging slightly, the remark “a fair shake of the sauce bottle, mate”, I always took the phrase to be “fair suck of the sauce bottle” in reference to the sharing round of a bottle of beer.
    I assumed that Rudd’s writers may had rewritten the old saying to make it relevant to Ramsay.
    Is the “fair shake” version traditional in some areas?

  47. Adrian, agree with Howard being a true “tosser” – never came across with authenticity when attempting to connect with “battlers”.

    As for Rudd, I’m not certain re his motives yet. More time will tell. However, at this point, I lean more towards Rudd as a “dag”.

    Re the use of Australian slang, Rudd is just too stiff to pull it off! 😳

  48. “fair suck of the sauce bottle” is the only one I’ve ever heard.

  49. Johnd, I’ve never heard the “fair shake” used before by anyone else and I suspect it is a PC version which is even more alarming.

  50. Any more than two shakes and he is playing with himself.

  51. Didn’t the PM say it three times in his interview?

  52. One of my Dad’s sayings was: Fair crack of the whip. I’d never heard the sauce bottle one, but maybe that’s a Queensland thing.

    A dag is of course that which hangs off a sheep’s bottom. A tosser I think would be a cricket term..to be used sparingly overseas where it means something else.

    Giving a person a fair shake means giving the person a fair go..which is yet another Australianism.

  53. scaper – LOL – then that does make him a tosser then – LOL

  54. You said it, not me.

  55. On Australian slang

    Interestingly, “tosser” is not a term recognised as Australian slang, nor is “wanker” – both are British slang.

    Is there an Australian slang equivalent?

  56. stick puller

  57. Shall we create one? A Rudder?

  58. Good point RN..the nearest that I can think of is drongo.

  59. Explanation: the name drongo comes from a native bird the spotted or spangled drongo which make the most annoying noise at dawn..Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop……..

  60. Mobius Ecko, on June 13th, 2009 at 12:51 pm Said:
    “Oh c’mon off John, he’s lowered himself on the world stage?”

    Andrian,
    Australia has to work hard to make itself both relevant and credible to the rest of the world, particularly Asia.
    Howard, (nor Downer) wasn’t able to establish the rapport with Asian leaders that I would have liked to have seen.
    Rudd is starting to disappoint because I had high hopes for him in that regard being an ex diplomat with Asian experience.
    I think Keating did find a genuine connection with some of the Asian leaders, as they saw him as the “real deal”, but then he did make one monumental blunder.

    From their perspective, Asian leaders don’t get involved in such trivial or personal matters, as ours do, that is generally left to someone less important, so these things do get noticed when ours do indulge in full public view. Australian leaders could get more brownie points with our neighbours if they could be seen as concentrating on the bigger important issues and leaving the trivial matters and throw away lines to some expendable lackey.

  61. I am still of the opinion that Rudd had to answer when such trivial questions were put to him. To not answer is not an option. This is more to do with the standard of journalism.

    And re Asia..one moment Rudd is accused of being too close to China, the next moment he is accused of not paying Asia enough attention. Asian leaders might have the benefit of being far less accessible to the media than do our politicians.

  62. Joni, re “A Rudder” ROFL. I truly hope it is coined.

    Hi Min,

    not quite the way I understand the meaning of drongo. But, a drongo tosser/wanker works.

    I grew up when, in Sydney, Australian slang was common place and much of it has disappeared over time. I find it quaint and very meaningful language.

    Two of my favourite terms in Australian slang:
    “Dunny budgies” and “flat out like a lizard drinking”.

    It would be quite the shame if Australian slang (used in the appropriate context of course) dissolved in the more PC vernacular. Rudd, being tosser or dag, by having a go at it, no matter how awkward, at least helps to revive this part of the Australian identity.

    There is a place for Australian slang IMHO.

  63. Yay..thank you RN. I mentioned this elsewhere, that at least our PM is using Australian terms and not the Yay Bro’ of the popular media.

    Am thinking back to the time when an Australian accent was an embarrassment..the news readers spoke with American accents except for the ABC where the news readers spoke with upper class English accents.

    Miglo has a better memory for this than me, but I think that it might have been the show Homicide where the first Australian accents were heard on television.

  64. I don’t agree that Rudd has lowered himself or the country on the world stage at all. If anything, I believe we’re probably better thought-of now than at any time in the last few decades.

    At least he hasn’t dragged-us off into any more US imperialist adventures on false pretexts, like his predecessor did. (Although that may have more to do with Bush & Co getting the heave-ho in the US than anything else).

    That’s gotta count for something.

    I just wish he’d avoid the constant commentary on the gossipy pointless minutiae of modern life and give the Okkerisms a miss.

    As I’ve said previously, he’s the PM for Godsakes, not Alan Jones or Stan Zemanic. Constantly putting his oar in the water on whatever the pathetic concocted outrage du jour happens to be in the Trashy Tabloids isn’t his brief.

    Running the country is. And I reckon he ought to stick to it.

    Neither I nor anyone else I know gives a toss about what he thinks of Gordon Ramsay’s behaviour or Bill Henson’s artworks or any of the other myriad pointless trivial issues he’s offered us a Prime Ministerial opinion upon.

    I know it’s all just pandering to the Masses and their crappy half-baked opinions and prejudices, but do we really need this sort of thing from our PM? I can turn-on my radio and get it from any number of blow-hard shock-jocks any day of the week.

    As for the Okkerisms, it sounds false and pathetic coming out of his (or anyone else’s) mouth these days. Perhaps he’s seen too many re-runs of The Adventures of Barry McKenzie.

    That sort of language died with my Grandafther’s generation. And he’s not doing anyone any favours by reviving-it now. Let it rest in peace, I say.

  65. Evan..I suspect that this is due to where you live. Having lived at Billinudgel for the past 17 years before moving to the big smoke aka Banora Point it all sounds normal to me. Yes, people do still speak this way in the country.

  66. I actually make a point of using old-fashioned Aussie slang a lot (particularly on US forums and blogs) because I would hate to see it die out.

  67. Quite right Daphon. We should be proud of our heritage, proud of being Aussies.

    We had an Aussie revival in the ’70s (from memory)..about time for another one I think.

  68. “We had an Aussie revival in the ’70s”

    Yes, it was called getting rid of the Liberals after so many, many years and finally getting an ALP government.

    (I watched the mini-series ‘Vietnam’ last night which reminded of those years. My birthday came out of the ballot but I failed the medical – they didn’t want poofs in the army in those days thankfully.)

  69. Daphon, hubby missed out too, they didn’t want cripples either.

  70. I was thinking that a bit of music might be nice, but anything online is the VERY BAD film version of Hair.

    I saw Hair in Sydney in the late 60’s and it was brilliant. The movie of the same name was awful.

    This is about the only one that I can re Good Morning Star Shine..if anyone can provide a better one..all donations gratefully received..

  71. Laurie Oakes in his piece in today’s Advertiser says that although it might sound dorky, the PM really does talk like that quite often; it’s not a political tactic as everyone wants to think.

    Oakes went on to say, ” It’s easy to forget that, while Mr Rudd might be a university-educated ex-diplomat, he spent his childhood on a Queensland dairy farm. And -stone the crows! – every afternoon his family listened to Dad and Dave on the radio.”

    So there you have it and imo, who actually gives a stuff if he uses ockerisms? Why does it cause such angst and endless snobbish nitpicking because he uses Austalianisms in Australia? It says a lot more about the nitpickers than it does about him.

    It would be far more worrying if he came out in support of public floggings and torture.

  72. Thank you Jane..and there you go and there you have it, it’s just snobbish nitpicking. Yes indeed Rudd talks like this..normally.

  73. Really, Jane?

    The Dad and Dave series finished in 1952 and the PM was not even born then!

    There was a TV series in the seventies I believe.

    I think someone is telling porkies again.

    http://www.classicaustraliantv.com/SnakeGully.htm

    Check out the coincidence? LOL!

  74. You mean Kevin is ———————— nrmol?

    😯

  75. When I come to think about it the coincidence is scary!

  76. it all sounds normal to me. Yes, people do still speak this way in the country

    It sounds normal to me too Min. I too hear Australian slang every day in my city workplace, spoken by many of my “customers” and across all ages of the life-span – not exclusive to just older generations.

    Australian slang is indeed colourful and gives life to an otherwise boring language spoken the world over. For me. Australian slang has a certain energy and richness found in no other country’s vernacular. It is a “fair dinkum” and wide spread language that immediately conveys meanings not just about the message in the words but also about the person using those words. Think about the “fair go” as it pertains to WorkChoices as just one example.

    Their is much to be said about the colonial origins from which it developed, when hardship was the way life. it captures Australia’s history as in what the term “digger” is to war as another example.

    I too hope it never dies.

  77. Bonza post, RN!

  78. Evan, on June 13th, 2009 at 3:51 pm Said:
    “I don’t agree that Rudd has lowered himself or the country on the world stage at all.”

    Evan, I agree Rudd should avoid involving himself in trivial matters.

    I did a quick search for “Rudd” on the Singapore “Straits Times”
    http://www.straitstimes.com/
    It threw up a lot stories including his remarks about Ramsay and the one about the hair dryer tantrum, amongst others.
    Such things don’t go unnoticed amongst our neighbours.

  79. It looks as if we have a number of proud Aussies here..even if they were born in Yorkshire 🙂

  80. Well you would agree TB – being a bloody Queenslander!!

    🙄

  81. Now have to go..you are a bonza mob. I always enjoy giving it a burl on the blog even when I have come a cropper. On occasions there might be some who have the kangaroos loose in the paddock or might even be a sandwich short of a picnic, or just some that you think might be a bit dodgy and some earbashers and a few misery guts as well. And some who are just plain nongs….and this is from go to whoa. This isn’t to say that a fair few don’t pack a wallop.

    But then things picks up and she’ll be apples. After all you wouldn’t be dead for quids.

    Just when you’re feeling like calling it quits and this is a dead cert and feel that you’re about to cark it, suddenly it’s bottlers. This is no furphy.

    It’s certainly not easy to get info these days especially via the idiot box, it’s always a bit iffy. Not even worth a squiz.

    Just speaking as molly dooker.

  82. Johnd, your link took me to the main page…couldn’t see anything there on our PM.

  83. scaper…, on June 13th, 2009 at 5:19 pm Said:

    Johnd, your link took me to the main page…couldn’t see anything there on our PM.

    Just put Rudd into the search box you’ll find on the page.

  84. If I may, johnd; here you go scaper.

  85. I think someone is telling porkies again.

    Yep – you should cease and desist then scaper 😛

    You mean to say the radio series was never repeated? Television wouldn’t have been available in Nambour until the late 50’s at the earliest, and then only for those who could afford it – I know we only had the old wireless (a huge black Bakelite thing with glowing valves inside and a series of knobs on the front) until the mid ’60s when Dad got a 2nd hand TV in exchange for an unpaid bill owed him.

  86. Min, luved it! Left hander too, hey!

    I bet you remember dina and zack and quid?

    Some bloke was burbling about killing the term “smoko” the other day and making it “quito” – duh – I still have smoko but I don’t have a fag! (leave it alone, sreb!).

    … and yes, cobber, I may have spent the first twelve years in the wrong country but I’m am a VERY proud Queenslander!

    … and I still point Percy at the porcelain, after a couple of tubes from the slab.

    … and yes I did get pissed off at yer throwin’ off at me bag ‘o fruit …

    … and I prefer to walk on the footpath (not a bloody sidewalk {Yanks} or a pavement {Poms} …

    … and there should be more Aussie poetry in schools …!

    … if our kids/grandkids turn up for dinner they have placemats with Aussie poems on them – no-one ever refuses to read “their” poem …

    … and The Minister & I still go to the pictures not the friggin’ movies!

    Jeese, that felt good!

  87. He’s a tosser.

    75% of this country’s (& no doubt all other countries) population are tossers.

    Big fkn deal.

    Tossers are generally harmless.

  88. “Tossers are generally harmless.”

    Not when they’re a PM with fingers on so many triggers!

  89. Yes bacchus, it certainly could have been repeated and it would be interesting to see if it actually played in the late afternoon as stated.

    We all know the PM does not lie.

    Johnd, had a good chuckle at the description of our PM…’charisma free zone’.

    I’m quite amused at the allusion/illusion that the PM speaks in ocker fashion naturally, all I can say is “WOW!”

  90. TB..

    I remember when a half-penny (ha’penny) used to buy a licorice.

    We used to go to the fil’ums and then it was the pic’tures. This was when my dad was on the bass’ic wage, which was better than being on susso.

    I can just about remember this..no cheating. I love a sunburnt country a land of sweeping plains of ragged mountain ranges of droughts and flooding rains. I love her far horizons, I love her jeweled seas….and then something about the wide brown land for me.

  91. “Not when they’re a PM with fingers on so many triggers!”

    He’s too timid & publicly self aware to do anything too gung-ho.

    I’m not a fan of his BTW, I just don’t think he’s as mired in lip curling 50’s arrogance as the last Prime Mendacious.

  92. Min, did you know that poem was being used by climate-change denialists, in order to prove there’s nothing unusual about current extreme weather and climate events? 😉

    Dorothea McKellar wrote Core of My Heart (later retitled My Country) sometime before 1908.

  93. johnd, on June 13th, 2009 at 5:14 pm

    But John a lot of them were beat ups by the right wing media and opinion spruikers here along with the opposition.

    It’s like the salute Rudd gave Bush was going to end US-Australia relations forever. It was supposedly the worst faux pas ever committed by an Australian leader.

    That has been the lot of Rudd from the moment he started in the leadership role, just waves of banality and meaningless drivel by a desperate opposition and right wing spruikers miffed their tosser hero Howard, who actually had a terrible overseas reputation, got tossed.

  94. As we know ME, they have been plonking themselves hard for quite a while now.

  95. And here is John’s same search with Howard instead of Rudd:

    Do the same for Bush and see how well he comes out.

  96. Tony..my mum grew up in a little town called Tungamah. On the banks of the Boosey as the saying went. This isn’t far from Katamatite (Victoria). This was dry land farming, wheat and sheep and when the rains came it was the kids job to grab a stout stick and encourage the first trickles of water down the creek. The family were at Katamatite from the 1890’s.

    I honestly don’t know anything about the science re climate change..all that I know is that there is problem and that we should be thinking about how to help rather than just pontificating about whose theory is better than the next person’s theory.

  97. It should be echoed that Howard was a certifiably nasty, arch-tosser; with FORM.

  98. Min, I knew, you knew! (Well, I always know *you*, know)

    ++++++++++++++++++
    Hey, HD, like me … I suspect … only PM for one thing …

    ABBA’s classic – money, money money …

    He (or Mal Turncoat) couldn’t give a toss about us – peasants … “…eat cake…” springs to mind …

    Adrian’s a big fan I see – needs a decade or two, I suspect, to see the “truth” … 😉

    +++++++++++++++++++
    Tony – do we care?

  99. Mobius Ecko, on June 13th, 2009 at 6:17 pm

    Adrian, that may well be the case, but he doesn’t have to make an extra effort to give them something to work with does he?
    Even the disrespect we show our politicians daily helps form the opinions of those observing from overseas, especially in Asia where showing respect is very important.

  100. Adrian, from the first page of your ‘Howard’ search of the Straits Times: “Rude Rudd Made Her Cry”.

    😆

  101. Care about what, TB Qld?

  102. Min,

    I honestly don’t know anything about the science re climate change..all that I know is that there is problem

    Well, I suppose it wouldn’t be unfair to ask how you know there’s a problem?

  103. Tony, I’m curious. Did you look up to Howard?

  104. MIn, re climate change – yes!

    We now have a 5000 lt water tank (our kids have 6000 and 15000 tanks).

    We have a 300lt SolarHart (second in 25 years).

    We have a 1Kw Solar Power System

    Both kids have applied for solar power (but limited by Rudd’s meany test of $100,000 household income)

    +++++++++++++++++

    FFS get on with it – instead of farting around with an ETS!

  105. ToSY,

    That Dorothea McKellar’s poem is being used in the Climate Debate!

    Dinner calls!

  106. I don’t look up to any professional politicians, Toiletboss, so no. I did respect some things about him, though: I thought he was fairly consistent in his political philosophy, and he had a reasonably strong intellect.

  107. No, that’s a good thing, TB. So no, we dont care.

  108. That’s what I thought Tony. A reasonable position.

    Hero worship doesn’t become objective opinion.

    I feel the same way about professional politicians.

    Just curious.

  109. Just in case you’ve forgotten, here are some from this very inventive man:

    http://www.webcity.com.au/keating/

  110. TB Queensland, on June 13th, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    TB, how viable would it have been if none of what you’ve installed wasn’t subsidised?
    Seriously, if all energy / carbon inputs during manufacture and installation are taken into account, is there any real payback over the life of the units.

    I did an exercise regarding solar water heating a couple of years and couldn’t see any saving until about 20 years out. A family of 4, but our hot water heating bill was too small to justify the solar heater. Therefore our contribution is, and always was, simply not to waste excessive water or excessive electricity heating it.
    Changing wasteful habits should take place before buying technology to compensate for maintaining them.

  111. That’s fine Tony. You’re going to hate this. I defer to the font of all knowledge..my 85yr old Mum. And her observations I suspect are as good as any scientist or any politician.

  112. LOL. Fair enough, Min. In this ‘debate’, your mum’s opinion is probably just as good as anyone else’s.

  113. You don’t need to be a scientist to spot PM Change.

  114. “You don’t need to be a scientist to spot PM Change”

    Stop making sense!!!

  115. With AGW I’m inclined to, rightly or wrongly, err on the side of caution.

    I do however sense the gathering momentum of opportunism set to take us for a rout in the name of “saving” us.

  116. I just had this vision of the PM meeting Obama and breaking into Strine…then Obama breaking into Jive.

    The PM scratches his head then turns around and slinks off dragging his security blanket behind in dejection.

    Boss, it’s all about money and power and finally the green movement has woken up to it!

  117. Tony, on June 13th, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    You came up with a totally different result than mine, where Howard’s kaffufle in taking Obama’s accommodation dominates.

    You sure you didn’t put in Rudd again?

  118. No Adrian, I merely clicked your link. (Just tried again – same result.)

  119. Sorry Tony that link is to Blogocrats here. This is a direct copy and paste of it.

    https://blogocrats.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/a-tosser-or-a-dag/#comment-45515

  120. …and here is a paste from you earlier link:

    http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&safe=images&num=10&q=John+Howard+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.straitstimes.com%2F&btnG=Search&meta=

    …the only Rudd reference that comes up is of him being strong in the polls against Howard, with this item being the top of the serach:

    http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/World/Story/STIStory_326909.html

  121. Yes, Adrian. To your comment, where you posted this link.

  122. Which doesn’t bring up the thing about Rudd you say it does, it is dominated by World Breaking news of Howard taking Obama’s accommodation.

    So I don’t know what you are going on about.

  123. Doesn’t matter Adrian; it’s a totally unimportant point to me, so whatever you say is OK.

  124. “I just had this vision of the PM meeting Obama and breaking into Strine…then Obama breaking into Jive”

    That is funny. Obama probably does jive about as well as Kevin does Ocka.

    Of course GWB & Howard would be back at the Ranch cavity searching eachother.

  125. Of course GWB & Howard would be back at the Ranch cavity searching eachother.

    LOL. Stop it.

  126. OK Tony but it’s not what I say it’s what’s happening.

    Can someone else confirm when they click on this link that a story about Rudd making a stewardess cries comes up or if the stories are about Obama moving into Blair house because of Howard?

  127. Pondslime references are probably waaaay off topic?

  128. I can confirm that Mobius.

  129. Mobius Ecko, on June 13th, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    What browser are you using?
    I use Opera.

  130. Dear oh dear! The hugger laborites are now discussing the merits of: ‘Is Rudd a dag or a tosser’?

    Simple! Rudd is a dag tosser extraordinaire. The night of the long knives fast approaches. Break out the kleenex for little Kev, the right wing pretender. Kevvie has been known to cry me a river when things don’t go to (his) plan.
    What happened to fuelwatch?
    Meantime make sure Kevs tripe is cooked medium-rare. Kev is a woman-basher.

  131. PLEASE NOTE. THE FOLLOWING COMMENTARY CONTAINS OPINION AND ASSERTIONS, WITHOUT THE PROVISON OF EVIDENCE! READ WTH CARE.

    Well there certainly are a range of untested assertions on this thread. No evidence at all.

    Still, I’ve never been a stickler for such inconsistently applied rules.

    Many Prime Ministers routinely adopt affectations.

    Rudd is channelling his namesake, Steele Rudd who created Dad & Dave. But is an affectation, and an embarrassing one. It is as dorkish as any feigned expressions his predecessors have used.

    Hawke was almost as cringeworthy with his “any boss that sacks a worker… is a bum”. But Hawke did carry off the common man touch more effectively than any before or since.

    Whitlam and Keating used always used “comrade” in a rather superior manner within ALP forums. Neither regarded anyone as their equal, and I suspect the implied companionship was nonexistent.

    Fraser just had a born to rule manner, which was probably more pronounced in public.

    Howard, I don’t recall a particular affectation, he was a dork, and no amount of PR training was able to conceal this.

    But there we are, I’ve made various assertions, without evidence, and no doubt I’ll be held to account.

  132. scaper…, on June 13th, 2009 at 5:01 pm Said:

    “Really, Jane?

    The Dad and Dave series finished in 1952 and the PM was not even born then!”

    Scaper country radio stations were playing Dad & Dave long after 1952 and there was a TV series which sparked a smal revival. But if you want to believe someone’s telling porkies, you’ll just have to call Laurie Oakes.

    Oftenbark, on June 13th, 2009 at 10:50 pm Said:

    “Simple! Rudd is a dag tosser extraordinaire. The night of the long knives fast approaches. Break out the kleenex for little Kev, the right wing pretender. Kevvie has been known to cry me a river when things don’t go to (his) plan.
    What happened to fuelwatch?
    Meantime make sure Kevs tripe is cooked medium-rare. Kev is a woman-basher.”

    Well, of course it would be much better if he invaded other countries on “evidence” he knows is false, sent women and children to live behind razor wire indefinitely, where they were really bashed, and was relaxed and comfortable with torture, but I suppose we’ll just have to live with someone who uses Australianisms.

  133. But there we are, I’ve made various assertions, without evidence, and no doubt I’ll be held to account.

    Damn, and I thought we were all mature enough to leave our childish antics in the other thread. 😦

  134. Keep up Jane. Concentrate. Pay attention.

    We’re not here to discuss the criminal garden gnome from Bennelong, nor did I allude to anything concerning that dastardly throw back of nature.
    We’re here to discuss the proposition: ‘Is KRudd a tosser and a dag’? Affirmative, on both counts.
    The Australian Labor Party deserves better.

  135. Oftenbark can you please show where Kevin Rudd bashed a woman?

    That is grounds for immediate dismissal and I’m sure it will happen if you could provide us with the evidence for it?

  136. johnd, on June 13th, 2009 at 8:02 pm

    Firefox latest version and use IE Tab when IE compatibility is necessary.

  137. why are we even talking about this, surely we all have more to do with our lives. If Howard wears a tracksuit whilst walking or if KR talkes to Australians in language that most Australians understand is “Australian”. Come on lets get on with our lives, this is a beat up about nothing. Imagine that gutless prick Costello being confused about Rudds demeanour. No wonder why he will never be the PM. Custard Costello, one can be highly educated as you and KR are, but the difference is the very reason you are confused why you are confused, he can actually talk to the average punter in language that they can actually understand.

  138. Spot on dave, but this has been the way of it from the moment Rudd rose to prominence. It’s as though the opposition, their mouth pieces and supporters just don’t know how to oppose at a serious level, so they indulge in this triviality and banality day after day, and it becomes nauseous.

    OK if even a bit of it got traction with the wider public but it doesn’t, in fact the opposite happens. The harder they attack Rudd and the government on bromide the more the polls go against the opposition or favour the government.

    Yet in the meantime there are real items of policy and actions by this government and Rudd that deserve intense debate and in depth criticism, but they are glossed over or ignored whilst being swamped with these imbecilities on Rudd saluting, Rudd’s bad ockerisms, Rudd’s pet and it goes on ad nauseam.

  139. Why yes of course Mobius, my bad; hence I shall delete ‘basher’ from my original post, insert ‘abuser’.
    By Steve Lewis & Ian McPhedran, Daily Telegraph 3/4/09

    ‘Kevin Rudd reduced a female RAAF cabin attendant to tears with a tirade of abuse because he did not get a meal he wanted during a VIP flight’
    The PM was ‘forced’ to apologise for his behaviour which ‘appalled’ a number of ‘senior’ government officials . . . ‘

  140. Thankyou for raising that old news that has been debated to death across the media and blogosphere. But at least the base of it is a fact if the exaggerations of what happened are ignored.

  141. Mobius, with due respect, I find your statement in regard of Kevy’s demeanour somewhat contradictory. I will contend that Kevy’s extended honeymoon period is attributable largely to the hopeless ineptitude of the Liberal opposition.
    As for the ‘blogsphere’ in regard to Kevy’s actions, time and will does not permit me to indulge in dissecting same to any great extent. Nevertheless, exaggerations aside, Kevy’s demeanour may be indicative of the greater problem of a narcissistic personality. Personally, I think he lacks ‘guts’.
    Time to apply the blowtorch.

    FWIW, I concur with your previous statement, to wit:
    ‘yet in the meantime there are real items of policy and actions by this government and Rudd that deserve intense debate . . . ‘

  142. But, but, but Adrian…you raise the old news concerning the last government more regularly than anyone else here!

  143. Oftenbark,

    I suspect the same – the poll numbers that Rudd enjoys (I think) are more a reflection of the esteem that the opposition is being held in rather than a reflection of Rudd’s performance.

  144. Jane, I think Porky did not check his facts before bending the truth.

    Here’s a comment from Dave Ross who lived in the area most of his life.
    —————————————————————–
    Scaper,
    Kevin was born in 1957, Dad and Dave finished in 1952 and I think Brisbane 4KQ had reruns of D&D;until about 1960 so I doubt that a wee 3 year old Kevvie was glued to the radio listening to Dad and Dave at that age.
    I certainly listened to D&D;but I am 10 years older than Rudd and there was no TV available until my early teens.
    There were children’s shows on radio in the afternoon but D&D;appealed more to adults than kids and came on at 6.00PM or maybe a bit later. I certainly didn’t like it nor did my siblings.
    I was more interested in Hop Harrigan and the like.
    Funny that Oakes didn’t check his D&D;facts before he went to print.

    http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/jacktheinsider/index.php/theaustralian/comments/the_linguistic_adventures_of_kevvy_ruddenzie/P275/

  145. Indeed Joni. Interesting times ahead. Is Kev the one-time, temporary PM, or the leader of a Labor dynasty? Former, I say.
    All will be answered in due course (by Messrs Pyne, Bishop, Hunt, Houghee; God help us all.)

  146. Oftenbark, on June 14th, 2009 at 10:25 am

    What a heap of crap.

    Here is the much vaunted extended honeymoon that seems to be never ending but none the less we believe our gut instinct because we have such great insight that mere mortals don’t. He will come crashing down because deep down he is evil and bad and terrible and a monster, but ordinary Australians below our paranormal insight abilities can’t see.

    What do you mean time to apply the blowtorch? He’s had it applied from the very moment he rose to prominence when in opposition and the temperature has been slowly turned up ever since. This was nothing like the Howard years where that government rarely received any scrutiny and was actively excused for its many failings.

    ————-
    scaper
    And I bring up Howard because it is a direct comparison of how his many failures were glossed over, and how he was treated with kid gloves as compared to the trivial crap that is levelled at this government, but especially Rudd nearly every day.

    Just take your checking of Rudd’s childhood, yet when Howard was in power the inconsistencies in his childhood were barely raised, especially the practices of his fathers and grandfathers businesses.

    So why the double standard scaper? Why is this government and Rudd being held to standards and scrutiny that was never applied to the previous government and in all likelihood will not be applied to future Liberal governments?

  147. “Kevin Rudd reduced a female RAAF cabin attendant to tears …”

    Iam NOT excusing this (although I think the release of it is part of the DoD’s ‘war’ against the govt), but it does worry me about the battle-readiness and backbone of our service personnel.

  148. Why is this government and Rudd being held to standards and scrutiny that was never applied to the previous government and in all likelihood will not be applied to future Liberal governments?”

    So very, very true particularly by The Opposition Organ (once known as The Government Gazette and in a long-dead incarnation The Australian) and its stablemates.

  149. Adrian, I use the same standards to critique all governments, no matter what coloured flag they fly.

  150. I really don’t think you should judge “battle-readiness and backbone” based on the behaviour of non-combat personnel, particularly one identified as having attributes suited to air-hosting (even if it turned out that a thick-skin wasn’t one them).

  151. Well scaper I have been reading your stuff as long as you have been mine, and I have to say you chop and change that tenet quite a bit.

    I don’t think I would be wrong in saying that you certainly are holding this government to a different harsher standard than the previous one and you have been more vitriolic and petty in your attacks on this government.

    Yes you were at times vociferous in your attacks on the Howard government, but that was mostly on policy failure in the things that you believed in or championed. There was little or none of this pettiness and attack everything you are now engaging in.

  152. Methinks you don’t know what a RAAF stewards full duties are Tony, probably nor that of stewards in any armed service?

  153. Et Tu Mobius whom indulges in ‘crap’.
    For instance, can you indicate clearly just who has applied the blowtorch to KRudd? The inept opposition, perhaps.
    Laughable!

    Further, why would a totally functional Liberal Opposition not welcome a double dissolution election, the effects of which may be to increase the number of Liberal seats in the Parliament to the detriment of Labor.
    Ah! Kevvy may have to be held to account for the Labor losses. I say double dissoultion, Now.
    And yet, Libs seem to be in two minds on this option. Why?

    ‘this was nothing like the Howard years where that government rarely received any scrutiny and was actively excused for its many failings’

    Oh really? AWB, Iraq, GST, The Pacific solution, Haneef, Workchoices. Hmmm. Makes one wonder from where you derive your information.

  154. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and mine is that everything they touch has turned to shit!

    There policy formulation has been shoddy and their grand announcements lack the detail and their actions have one aim only, to retain power!

    I voted for these pretenders and they have not only let us down, they have let the next generation down too, this government is shaping up to being the worst in my lifetime!

    I will most probably vote for the AIC at the next election.

  155. The responsibility for scrutiny of governments lies with the opposition. Secondary scrutiny can come from the media.

    If the Howard government wasn’t being scrutinised by the Labor opposition, then blame the opposition.

    In regards to the media, except for the ABC, editorial policy and news decisions rest with individual organisations, who can be as fair or as biased as they wish.

    In my opinion, as opposed to Adrian’s or Daphon’s opinions stated above, The Australian is a right-leaning newspaper, while the Fairfax papers are left-leaning. The other Murdoch papers are populist tabloids, with no clear political direction.

    The ABC is governed by its charter, which states that it should be unbiased, but whether that works in practice is a matter for debate. In my opinion, the ABC leans to the left.

  156. Oftenbark, on June 14th, 2009 at 11:43 am Said:

    Oh really? AWB, Iraq, GST, The Pacific solution, Haneef, Workchoices. Hmmm. Makes one wonder from where you derive your information.

    Thanks for making my point, on just about every one of those points Howard hardly had the blowtorch put to him and in fact was allowed to get away with deceits and misdirections over them. Just look at AWB where noone was held to account and the perpetrators in the Wheat Board walked away with bonuses. Iraq, what a laugh that you imply they were held to account, there was hardly anything of the sort. Haneef was only because of the indomitable actions of one lawyer, otherwise Howard would have been allowed to use the marginalising of Haneef for political gain with barely a whimper from the media. Workchoices was a very well run Union campaign for the media nearly overwhelmingly supported it and hid a lot of the facts showing where it was failing.

    Not et tu oftenbark, but very rose coloured glasses being worn by one side who mostly blame the media for Howard’s loss without seeing how it was the media that mostly aided and abetted Howard and now crucify Rudd.

    —————–
    Lucky that is just your opinion on the ABC Tony for as we have shown it does not lean to the left. You only had to see Insiders this morning to find that out.

  157. Lucky that is just your opinion on the ABC Tony for as we have shown it does not lean to the left.

    Adrian, you (we?) have shown nothing of the sort. Unless you have come up with that study you mentioned but failed to produce, you are just blowing hot air. It is your opinion vs mine; full stop.

  158. Just for background info. This was the brief when RAAF changed from Stewards doing flights part time to dedicated Flight Attendants. Bold mine

    By way of general explanation of the new structure Crew Attendant applicants will under psychological aptitude testing and selection board process. The Crew Attendant Grade 1 will have completed recruit training and will have remusted from another RAAF category and will undertake Airman Aircrew Training.

    Crew Attendants may perform the following:
    a. loading and lashing of cargo
    b. weight and balance calculations
    c. supervision of loading and handling of dangerous cargo
    d. pre-flight planning
    e. supervision of passengers
    f. air to air refuelling observation
    g. assistance during aircraft taxiing operations
    h. monitoring of APUs
    i. assist pilots with after flight inspections and preparations
    j. loading all baggage for passengers
    k. arranging quarantine and customs
    l. provision of in-flight first aid to passengers
    m. provision of in-flight emergency procedures (EP) briefings
    n. [b]perform EP operations if an emergency arises[/b]
    o. VIP in flight service
    p. fire fighting in the cabin and baggage hold
    u. passenger health monitoring,

    I highlight Airman Aircrew Training because I have done this and it involves Combat Survival which has an interrogation familiarisation component. If you don’t know how physically and mentally demanding this course can be then look it up.

    Also Aviation Medicine is far more involved than the standard first aid course you might be thinking of, and it also requires a bit of mental fortitude.

    This doesn’t excuse Rudd and I have been critical of him over this but praised the way he immediately apologised and took responsibility (a change from our previous PM), but it does raise the question as to the calibre of the people who are attending passengers on our VIP flights.

  159. ‘blame the media for Howard’s loss’ – Mobius.

    Really Mobius. Refer to post by Tony. ‘The responsibility for scrutiny of government lies with the opposition’
    Correct.

    ‘Haneef was only because of the indomitable actions of one lawyer’
    Well, the greater picture tells me that perhaps the point of attempted circumvention of due legal process hence the revocation of the Haneef working visa by Andrews, Howard, Ruddock et al may not have been lost on thinking Australians. Terrifying, when one thinks of the circumstances.

    So tell me Mobius, if not for the above events, including AWB, Iraq, Workchoices, why in the name of Jedi was the Liberal Government dumped?

  160. Mobius Ecko, on June 14th, 2009 at 11:37 am Said:
    “Methinks you don’t know what a RAAF stewards full duties are Tony, probably nor that of stewards in any armed service?”

    Perhaps the RAAF should be recruiting the offspring of the air hostesses that flew the north west routes with Mickey Mouse Airlines back in the 70’s. Only problem would be Kev finding himself having to walk if push came to shove.

  161. Oftenbark, apart from Workchoices I had an issue with nuclear power stations dotted on our coast and the proposed waste dump in NT.

    By the way, this government is running with the waste dump.

  162. Interesting that no matter which party holds power they claim the ABC is biased when, in reality, what we see is a media organisation simply criticising a government.

    I do believe perceived ABC bias is in the eye of the beholder. From my left-wing perception I see more right-wing bias in the ABC at the moment (not just because of ‘Murdoch’s Insiders’ programme) but because I see it holding the government to account which it should do. And as it should do, and does, to the Opposition as well.

  163. How much stuff do you want me to produce and that includes all the previous government enquiries that found no bias.

    Sorry Tony I will post an extract from the email I got from Media Monitors that states it kept none of Rehame’s records. I could do nothing more, but damn if I hadn’t posted considerable data in pointing out the ABC wasn’t biased and we only came down to one report on one election, that even James agreed with my memories of the results.

    In fact you never answered me once in where is your proof they are biased in light of the information I provided which showed that despite the previous government actively attempting to find bias in the ABC, in over a decade only once on the coverage of Iraq did they find a very small handful of items out of 68. Not a single other enquiry found a bias.

    So I’m still waiting for your objective evidence that the ABC is biased.

    Hi Adrian,

    Thank you for your enquiry to Media Monitors. You would need to contact a government entity in relation to this. Also due to storage and copyright restrictions we would no longer have in our systerms details of the relevant media content delivered to “any” clients longer than the last 90 days.

    My apologies I cannot be of further assistance.

    Regards
    Brad Galbraith
    Media Monitors
    02 9318 4097

    The information is not available from the government as it was removed along with the other enquiry the previous government smothered (I linked to that).

  164. Mobius, and others,
    how can such bias be measured objectively?
    It’s clearly subjective.

  165. scaper…, on June 14th, 2009 at 12:25 pm Said:

    By the way, this government is running with the waste dump.

    Now you are talking serious and substantial stuff instead of the fluff that’s always raised against this government.

    I have heard background mutterings on this but nothing in concrete yet. I would love background if you could provide it scaper for it is definitely one thing I will dump heavily on this government for?

    I will also raise it with my local member Joanna Gash, a Liberal and who I vote for by the way for those who have pigeon holed me, if there is any substance to it. Joanna often stood up against Howard bad policy (which is why she was demoted in this opposition despite being a long time steady performer for the Liberals).

  166. I never claimed to have evidence, Adrian – “everything I thought I knew about the ABC” were the words I used, from memory. In case you think those words are ambiguous, you need go no further than this thread to find me saying it’s my opinion.

    You, however, promised proof that the ABC weren’t biased. If you’ve produced it before as you now claim, it shouldn’t be too hard to find it again.

  167. This was all covered in the debate on the other topic John, I’m not going to repeat it here. The measurements were clearly delineated and are stated in the other topic. By the way it was the Howard government, mostly Alston, that put in place the measurements which I think are still used to this day. I believe the ABC oversight committee put in place by Howard to supposedly stop ABC bias is still in place today, but I might be wrong in this. So the previous government certainly felt that bias could be objectively measured and actively went about doing it.

  168. Tony why should I do it all again just for you? Find it in the previous topic on this.

    The only thing I can’t confirm anymore, but Jame’s memory is similar to mine, is a Rehame report commissioned by the Howard government to find ABC bias, firstly during a budget and then more comprehensively during an election. That report did find bias, but it was slightly in favour of the government, so Howard buried it though promising to make all Rehame findings public.

  169. Good morning to you Scapes!
    ‘Oftenbark, apart from workchoices . . . .’, which once more clearly indicates, albeit from a small sample, that the ultimate scrutiny/non-scrutiny of governments is reflected by the results of a national plebiscite, aided and abetted by a viable opposition.

    BTW, I do wholeheartedly agree with your expressed sentiment re ALP shoddy policy, pretenders. My main beef is with the non-adherence to traditional Labor egalitarian values. But then, thats a discussion for another day. In addition, FWIW, the formerly safe WA state, and federal, seat/s of Fremantle, a Labor stronghold for over 90 years, is now in the hands of an alfalfa consuming state ‘Greenie’. Oui Oui, believe it or not.

    ‘BTW, this government is running with the waste dump’
    Hmmm. Can’t say I can put forward an alternative solution Scapes. Perhaps, sell (stored) waste to Scotland; Pacific solution, maybe? But hey, I take your point.

  170. Hi Oftenbark, you old dog…how’s life on the left coast going and how is the Barnett government performing?

    I remember reading somewhere that villages in Scotland are paid for the waste to be stored which in turn contributes to services and the like…am I mistaken?

    I suppose the waste has to be stored somewhere, especially the stuff sitting at Lucas Heights, I was a member of the Friends of the Earth protesting outside of the facility in the mid seventies when they had all the Yellowcake stored there ready for export.

    My main concern was the waste issue and it looks like after all this time the chooks have finally come home to roost!

  171. G’day Scapes. ‘Old dog’? Hey, lets dispense with ‘old’ caper’. Memory tells me that in days past a Scottish consortium entertained the probability of storing European nuclear waste in desolate land west of the rabbit proof fence. Yeah, right!
    I have a better idea!

    Barnett! Che? He’s from Barcelona. Carry on.

    Well, Scapes, the inescapable fact is that we (Aus) hold around 30% or more of the world’s uranium deposits. I say sell, export, forthwith. As for the waste problem, I have no solution.
    Funny how chooks constantly maintain their inherent behavioural pattern. So be it.

  172. But hey Scapes, enlighten us all. What do we do with uranium and the environmental consequences of mining, export?

  173. Oftenbark, that’s a tough question for a Sunday but I’ll give it a go.

    As far as mining is concerned, the battle was fought decades ago and we lost…we are at a stage that if we did not dig up stuff and sell it eventually the powers that be would come and take it.

    I believe the miners are using ‘best practice’ but all it takes is one tragedy and the area of this would be lost to human habitation for pretty much ever in our scheme of things, if it got into the water table it would have disastrous consequences!

    On the waste side…I believe that bacteria that transforms the waste into a solid form to prevent water table contamination would be a good start.

    http://www.eyeofscience.com/eos2/english/gallery/bakvir/bsp5.html

  174. Good points Scaper, very informative, as was the amazing link.
    Ciao for now. Have a good week.

  175. Interesting that if you do a Google search on ‘uranium eating bacteria’ the second most prominent result is the Stormfront site (an extreme neo-Nazi group):

    Uranium Eating Bacteria – Stormfront
    Uranium Eating Bacteria Science, Technology and Race.
    http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?p=5435749 – Cached – Similar

  176. Don’t believe in a bacteria, load of bunkum methinks but if you check out Catalyst they recently had a story of a natural crystal that locks up radio active waste and is found in Australia, actually discovered here.

    But that is only to account for the current generation of nukes. With Gen III but especially Gen IV reactors nuclear waste becomes mostly a minor problem.

  177. Re the uranium eating bacteria. If you can down to the bottom of the page, it states that the difference between the experimental model and the control model was nil. Wouldn’t that be nice and simple, bacteria just sent in to do the munchy thing.

  178. Whoops can = scan

  179. Of course………..and pardon my cynicism………….but could it be that Rudd used the term “fair shake of the sauce bottle” 3 times in order to divert attention from the answers he actually provided to the questions asked of him.

    You lot are talking about “sauce bottles” for a week without too much talk about the Economy which was the subject of the question asked of him in the first place.

  180. IATW

    Very good point – I guess it saves him not having to say “three hundred billion” 🙂

  181. No IATW, I believe the question was on why more women were not promoted and weren’t the promotions based on factional lines rather than merit.

    Rudd had nothing to hide on the economy as lots of good figures came in, which is why the opposition have gone mute on the economy and moved back to scatter gun triviality.

  182. Good figures?

    What was our balance of trade for the month of April?

    The carnage has not yet begun!

  183. ..and Rudd keeps saying that scaper, but there have been some good figures and it wasn’t over the economy he made the repeated sauce bottle colloquialism, which was my point, but why should that stop you having another petty dig at the government from the sideline?

  184. So you are saying that the April figures are good?

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