Good afternoon and welcome to Frolykz!

Our end of the working week – dissolve into the weekend idle chit chat thread.

Now for those of you heathens that might not have been around at the time, a week or so ago, a few of us – a “select few” I might add – decided that we’d form our own religion.

I’d even go so far as to call ourselves “the chosen ones”. Not that we were “chosen” for any particular purpose, but really just for enjoying the feeling of being “special” in comparison to the “un-chosen” or as I like to call them “the un-worthy scum”.

Our religious ceremonies are a whizz-bang, no expense spared, miracle-a-minute extravaganza! See the Youtube clip below!!

Like most religions the main attraction is the fact that we can legally avoid paying tax help the needy through legitimate taxation structures, charitable philanthropy and self-sacrifice.

Let us rejoice!

But of course, having your own religion is no fun unless you’ve got a group of people to hate.

It helps a lot if these people are incapable of escaping their predicament, so race is a good place to start.

Poor people are also an easy target, but the risk there is that you don’t want to appear unsympathetic to the poor and impoverished, so it’s good to keep up a veneer of concern as you tramp all over them.

Besides, if they haven’t got any money what use are they really?

The problem is, that in today’s day and age there’s a hell of a lot of poor people, largely due to the GFC, also know as the Gullible Faith Conspiracy. So an easy way to keep that mob under control and to protect one’s rapidly accumulating wealth is to offer them something that’s easy to deliver – an abundance of wealth in the afterlife..!!!

Yes, people do actually fall for that!

Tell them that money is the “root of all evil” and you’ll have them signing over what little assets they have left in no time. Trust me. It is as easy as it sounds!

Throw in a doomsday scenario and you’ll have them singing your praises while your bank balance blossoms!


So break out the new nike’s grab a cup of orange cordial and let’s all settle back and wait for the UFO to take us all home.

Don’t forget to leave your credit card at the door…

Happy Frolykz!!


154 Responses

  1. I started my own religion a couple of weeks ago after I declared myself a God. I even came up with commandments.

    So, you are a false idol, and I must smote thee with a punishment …

    You can choose between –

    (a) Tripe in white sauce three times a day for a month.
    (b) An embarrasssingly painful genital discharge.
    (c) Putting your head in a bucket of Joe Hockey’s naval fluff and going “Wubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwubwub”

    Your call, bud.

  2. I think I’ll go with the painful genital discharge.

    The other options are simply too unsavoury to contemplate..

  3. It’s interesting that, within a week of Sol Trujillo denouncing Australia as a racist nation, we have reports of youths deliberately targeting Indians and bashing them …

    It’s also interesting that 46% of people at an ABC News radio poll agreed with Sol’s sentiments.

    I wonder whether we as a nation, do actually concede that we are racist but it’s a topic that we’d rather not discuss?

  4. Nor are we into vilification Reb..but that’s another story.

  5. reb, on May 29th, 2009 at 3:55 pm Said:

    Every nation is racist to some degree or another.

    Look at Robert Mugabe and his treatment of white farmers !

  6. Just to drag down the whole thread (it’s been a long lunch), we were discussing my shoulder and the line of the week was:

    Left for pleasure, Right for speed

    I have no idea ( 🙄 ) what the relevance to my shoulder was.

  7. I’m not disputing that Walrus. Mugabe is a thug.

    The point I’m getting at, is that it doesn’t seem to bother us that 46% of the population (going by the ABC poll at any rate) reckon Australians are racist, but somehow this doesn’t raise any eyebrows or warrants any further discussion in the meja..

    Perhaps it just shows how lazy journalists have become in this country.

    If it’s not handed to them in easy-to-reproduce press release format, they really haven’t got a fricken clue as to what they should be investigating..

  8. I agree with the 46%

  9. Joni,

    In terms of dragging the whole thread down, clearly you haven’t read Ross Sharp’s comment!


  10. Me too Tom.

    You only need to look at the Cronulla riots to see that we’re just a nation of “white trash”

  11. Reb..we have that 46% say that we are racist. But the remainder..54% are somewhere along the lines of, No we’re not or don’t care or don’t know.

    It sound to be a good percentage to me…46% admitting that there is problem and that something needs to be done.

  12. Good point Min.

    Although will anything be done? I doubt it. Best just forget about it and blame everyone else as wowsers for not accepting us the way we are.

    That seems to be the overwhelming response to Sol’s observations..

  13. Reb..well I’m still here aren’t I. I’ve been plugging away for the past 15 years (my area as you know is disability advocate). I do honestly see improvement such as TB of Qld said. Hugs to new friend Delphon. And I do know (or at minimum can appreciate) what you blokes have been working on all of your lives.

    Anyway..what about a bit of kitchen dancing? Music is your choice..but you’ve got to make it a slowie for us old’uns.

  14. “………..Perhaps it just shows how lazy journalists have become in this country………….
    they really haven’t got a fricken clue as to what they should be investigating..”
    reb, on May 29th, 2009 at 4:29 pm Said:

    How true Reb…………………..especially the ABC’s journalists who are all a bunch of psychotic liars…………………….Every last one of them.

    Now cue B.Tolputt from right of stage please…………….!


  15. President Obama and Hillary Clinton have restated their commitment to a fair settlement of the Israel Palestine conflict:

    Note with interest that an Australian Government delegation, headed by our Julia, is about to visit Israel at the invitation of the Nethanyahu government.

    Australians believe in the fair go, something distinctly lacking in the Middle East today.

    I hope the delegation reminds Mr Nethanyahu that a fair and secure settlement of the conflict is in the long-term interests of the Jewish and Palestinians people and all the rest of us too.

  16. Just went into to see what was happening in the world, and the major story is . . . “High emotion at the US national spelling bee”, complete with a photo of a girl who could spell.

    We were told that “there was gripping drama as US school students tussled at the national spelling bee finals in Washington”.


  17. “High emotion at the US national spelling bee”

    Meet the Spartans miglo.

  18. Hi there Crowdung. I see that Tom is posting to himself on the Midweek Mayhem thread.

    Meanwhile, the rest of us have moved on.

  19. Yep, Dog chases bone.

  20. Not very stealthy when the avatar doesn’t change huh?

    I forgot that I’d left that name in the tab.

  21. Well Miglo and dunghill, I’m off shortly to make a big hole in the new cellar of a wine tosser.

    I’m trying to start a couple of arguments before I leave.

    Have fun anyway.

  22. “Well Miglo and dunghill, I’m off shortly to make a big hole in the new cellar of a wine tosser.”Tombo

    WTF is a “wine tosser”????????? (note expert use of punctuation adds to the gravity of my comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

    I thought that there was a multitude of wine-tossers already inhabiting the blog. No need for you to go & start arguments with corporeal beings. I’m sure you will make a fine antagoniser though.

  23. Pardon my ignorance if a wine-tosser turns out to be some kind of archaic feature of opulent cellaring…like a hidden door behind which all of the rare stuff is kept.
    Or maybe a secondary alcove where you hide the bottles that are urinated in for “special guests”.

    [never start a sentence with “Or”]. Or else.

  24. did someone mention a wine tosser ?


  25. A wine tosser is someone that thinks they know plenty about wine. They believe it is more than an effective mechanism to induce drunkenness.

    They use non-alcoholic terms to describe wine, I’ve no idea why.

    Personally I use words like “tasty”, “good” and “more” when drinking wine.

    When thinking of a wine tosser, think of Miglo.

    This time I’m going. Really.

  26. Another glass of the Margaget River red, please.

  27. That’s Margaret, hic

  28. A wine tosser is someone that thinks they know plenty about wine.

    Well Tom, that makes you a tosser on everything.

    Where do I start?

  29. Another glass of the Margaget River red, please.

    Gab, in Tom’s language you are a tosser. A complete tosser, actually.

    Anybody who knows anything about wine knows that the best reds come from SA.

  30. In your opinion perhaps Miglo.

    I like red wine, period, and have been known to empty South Australian bottles too. But dry Margaret River rouge is the fave in this bit of Elwood.

  31. Sorry gab. The Margaret River is just a Barossa wannabe.

  32. especially the ABC’s journalists who are all a bunch of psychotic liars…Every last one of them.

    Now cue B.Tolputt from right of stage please…!

    Meh. Where’s the fun in that? We all know if I wanted an irrational argument where logic need not be used – I only need to start Neil on Global Warming or Tom on Unions 😛

  33. “Personally I use words like “tasty”, “good” and “more” when drinking wine.”Tom

    Apparently we both learned about the intricacies of wine from the same book. It only has the one page.

    Did you find your copy in the gutter too Tom?

    “Anybody who knows anything about wine knows that the best reds come from SA.”migs

    This is the sole other fact I know about wine. Yum.

    Something I’ve learned is that drinking bits of the cork isn’t as pleasant as eating the agave worm.

  34. We’re all in the gutter.

    But some of us are looking at the stars…

  35. Oh oh. Another North Korean missile was launched earlier today and now Chinese fishing boats are reportedly leaving waters off Korea:

  36. “Chinese fishing boats are reportedly leaving waters off Korea”

    The BBC are notorious liars …………just like the ABC……………….besides maybe they ran out of rice and their catch was not that good as well…………….possible ?

  37. Now I’m getting really p!$$ed off with our public servants and Rudd & Co…

    …after spending the last four months dealing with business and professional incompetence from a number of sources…and chasing superannuation from the ATO – which we still haven’t got…

    …the government gives money away to millionaires…,28323,25559482-5017313,00.html

    (I suggest you also read some of the readers’ comments – 8 of 35 is a classic for a script, The Hollowmen – as my mentor used to say, “…nothing in business happens by coincidence…” )

    …my daughter’s family of five gets nothing because they earn just over $100,000 in household income…

    …I have never been happy with the cash handouts stimulus package and said so, but accepted the decision, and as SFRs, we’ve learned to live with the fact that we would be left to fend for ourselves…

    …I earnt just under $15000 in 2007 – 08 and paid no tax due to offsets and therefore not eligible (I did pay tax on my super earnings) – that’s fine under the rules but I get cranky when the rules are not enforced due to “loopholes”…

    …we still laugh at the rhetoric politician’s direct at small business and then direct the PS to make it harder and harder for the poor bastards to make a quid…

    …I have always said I don’t mind paying tax, I’ve paid it for nearly fifty years – what I don’t like is how governments waste it…

    Wonder how many “handouts” Rudd and Turnbull received…classic Robber Barons at work!

  38. Correction – I did pay tax but received no refund due to offsets…

  39. TB, I am inclined to agree that the $900 was very poorly done – as per your link, that millionaires were able to rort the system.

    Tom is going to hate this one (and apologies to Tom for not catching up on the blog yesterday arvo) but I believe that any short term stimulus needed to be targeted specificially such as the insulation thing. This has created jobs and helped people reduce their power bills. Whereas a $900.00 handout could end up ‘anywhere’.

    Also the handout reinforced Howardesque ideas of middle class welfare.

    Re the stimulus paid to dead people. Rudd is right on this one and Turnbull is a fool. Imagine the stimulus being paid to people who lodged tax returns and then having to knock on the widow’s door..Sorry love that hubby’s carked it..give us back our money.

  40. Should have says something not only about the stimulus package but says a lot about the very greedy that would go out of their way in order to rort the system…and it was just pocket-money, just a few grand.

  41. Min………………..the $900 was given out stupidly………………even I have to………. ahem……………………..ree…………..wi……………T……T…..T….T…..T……T……T….Tom !

    God that was tough…………………..!


  42. From Wikileaks:

    During the Howard era:

    Too sneaky by half: plan to keep local Australian doctor numbers low

    The Australian Department of Health and Ageing (DHA) has set out to constrain the number of doctors graduating, despite supply shortages which have seen the country poaching medical staff from the developing world.

    When there are fewer Australian doctors trained, there are fewer Medicare filings.

    The reduction in Medicare filings (by reducing the availability of Australian doctors) could be as high as $12 millon AUD.

  43. of my things is how it is next to impossible for a country kid and those from lower income families to become a matter how able. When I last looked, there is only one university in Australia offering medicine as an undergraduate course..all are now post graduate…and so one heck of a lot of years minus financial support.

    Therefore, minus any substantial $$s to support post graduate students one has to either be a city kid or from a wealthy family (or be a vegetarian ;-)) as it is not possible for science/medical students to fit the pizza run into the study timetable.

  44. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh………………….!

    Kitty you are back………………………………..!

    Now ……………where were we……………………………..?


    Did you watch the footy last night ?

  45. Did you watch the footy last night ?


  46. Kitty..I always had it in the back of my mind that JWH did not want kids from poorer backgrounds to become doctors..crossing the social divide and all that.

    I wonder what Nicola Roxon has to say about this. I am still thinking that Nicola is one of the good’uns. I wouldn’t mind hearing/reading what you think.

  47. Yeah min, the wikileak article doesn’t say whether the restrictions on doctor numbers are still current practice.

  48. I wonder what Nicola Roxon has to say about this. I am still thinking that Nicola is one of the good’uns. I wouldn’t mind hearing/reading what you think.

    The Rudd govt is too timid IMO, doesn’t like to upset the vested interests. Medicare as it exists now, is nothing like the original, a long time ago it died the death of a thousand funding and administrative cuts and should be scrapped to be replaced by a true universal health care system. Of course the AMA and private health insurance companies would carry on with the ideology wars.

  49. Did you watch the footy last night ?


    kittylitter, on May 30th, 2009 at 10:53 am Said:


    I was hoping to get the scores ……………………..

  50. Good find kittylitter.

    During a period when we were experiencing a chronic shortage of doctors, what does Howard do?

    “As you know, the Commonwealth is working towards containing the overall numbers of medical students graduating…”

    Oh Great. Now, that’s what I call really looking after the best interests of his constriuents: Keeping ’em sick for lack of medical care. Ars*hole.

  51. I am inclined to agree Kitty re the timidity. Rudd had the good will of the Australian public with him after the election and has been too slow. But on the other hand, nothing can be much achieved in between budgets.

  52. I am not an accountant, but Steve Lewis’ last two characterisations (zombies v. estates; and now business v. income distributions and taxes) look fishy to me…just going off TB’s link. Eg, I can easily see how a business could generate $5 million in business income and yet only pay a salary or a dividend considerably less than that; or split what income is paid into the trust downstream of the business. Which would make the flaw upstream in ‘the rort’ and not downstream in the ATO’s distribution. Just a thought. Mind you, Steve seems to be doing a good job highlighting ‘the rort’ and the ‘angry’ accountants who perpetuate it. And even that is an attempted wedge for Labor, too – ‘the rort’ is standard practice among small business, farming (and accounting?) communities..and the Libs and Nats both make a regular run on defending it on behalf of their constituencies. Damned if you do, and damned if you don’t, there.;)

  53. This government is just lurching around.

    Another example, I’ve no idea why anyone would promote Julia Gillard as an ALP leader, she is incompetent.

    The “award modernisation” process she is overseeing is a shambles.,27753,25559934-462,00.html

    She creates so much anxiety and uncertainty with her lack of understanding/direction.


  54. Everything this government touches turns to shit!

    Handouts, pink batts and fiscal policy.

    The ETS legislation is a mess and I have no confidence whatsoever in their implementation of recommendations that will ensue from the Henry Tax Review.

    Pathetic is a mild description in my opinion!

  55. Legion, on May 30th, 2009 at 11:40 am Said:

    Huh !

    What are you on about Legion pray tell……………….Is there a link ?

  56. I Am The Walrus, on May 30th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    TB Queensland, on May 30th, 2009 at 9:40 am Said:

    ….the government gives money away to millionaires…,28323,25559482-5017313,00.html

  57. Might I suggest that the subject is ‘rorting’. Fair enough, the Rudd government didn’t/hasn’t done enough to overcome the rorting that has been going on for at least the past decade. But then try to even implement any form of pulling in of rorts and you watch’em squeal.

  58. Min, on May 30th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    No, I am suggesting that the Lewis’ characterisation is a misdirection; and it panders to a mindset which has little grasp of the distinction between wealth and income; taxable entities of various sorts – business and personal; or the nature of discretionary/family trusts (which are pandemic in the small business world). I seriously doubt that (m)any ‘millionaires’ (allowing for some few sheer administrative stuff-ups by the ATO) for personal income tax purposes derived any such grant. Steve is just trying to play both ends off against the middle, imho, by not describing how the ‘rort’ or the ‘loophole’ actually operates; and when the operative legal framework is examined closely, there has been no such ‘rort’ as that term is commonly understood (there has been no ‘defrauding’, which is why it’s legal.)

  59. Min, on May 30th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    But then try to even implement any form of pulling in of rorts and you watch’em squeal.

    Yes, that’s why it’s an attempted wedge.

  60. Legion..and the solution would have been?

    Yes…myself trying to decipher above, it’s not a ‘rort’ as such as it’s within the legal framework. And so why all the squealing about the bonus being ‘rorted’? The problem is obviously something to do with millionaires being able to minimise their contributions taxwise and still being able to put their little paws out for whenever meagre contribution (meant for lower income earners) comes their way.

  61. Pot called the kettle black and got tarred by its own brush:

    This is why both sides are normally careful about accusations of rorting, or corruption, or malfeasance etc. against the other as long history has shown that it comes back to bite you.

    The opposition (and by proxy their mouth pieces and ideologues) has been engaging in a lot of very petty muck raking and mud slinging to no effect over the last 18 months, and this type of stuff is why. They are just as guilty of the muck and mud they are stirring up and the people know it.

    I’ve been extremely disappointed in Rudd over the last few weeks or so as he retracts some of the integrity he restored that was lost by the last government, with two major examples being his rehiring of the 30% of government advisers he culled and then some and now he is to engage in a tax payer funded $50 million dollar ad campaign to sell his insulation policy.

  62. The feeling I’m getting is that people don’t like the idea of the rich getting a handout because they have the means to rort the system.

    I agree.

    What annoys me even more – as a person who paid child support for many years – are those who can manipulate the system to avoid paying child support.

    I’d reckon it’s the same poeple.

  63. The rich rebate thing is being spun by as being multiple payments going to one person when in fact it is separate payments going to individual members of the same family.

    Now I realise that the income generally all comes from one income source but the problem is with the family trust tax treatment, not the bonus payments. I would dearly like to see the family trust arrangements fixed up BUT, until they are how the hell do you expect the ATO to differentiate between valid family trust arrangements and the rorts.

    BTW, the disgust expressed by the accountant is an absolute 🙄 – after all, he’s the one that set up the structure to minimise tax in the first place – the ATO isn’t responsible for this, the accountant is!

  64. Legion..and this is Rudd re trying to point out that payments to ‘dead people’ is very very insensitive of Turnbull (de-wedging). I personally would have gone in harder re widows having to repay their bonus money when hubby has just passed away.

    Makes good headlines does it: Rudd pays money to dead people and millionaires.

    Re stuff ups does anyone know of a good accountant around the Tweed area? Someone who knows anything about being a tradesman? The end of the tax year is looming….

  65. Thanks for the hugs, Min.

    Every time I see the phrase ‘stimulus package’ I think of all those emails I get wanting to cure my erection problems.

    And I’ll some of those drugs the folks in the video must take as long as it doesn’t involve religion or snakes.

  66. From Martin Wolf (one for John Mcphilbin, and Neil as it explains why what Rudd is doing is correct and why the opposition will also go into massive debt and preside over higher unemployment if they are in power).

    We have three alternatives: liquidation; inflation; or growth.

    A policy of liquidation would proceed via mass bankruptcy and the collapse of a large part of the existing credit. That is an insane choice.

    A deliberate policy of inflation would re-awaken inflationary expectations and lead, inevitably, to another recession, in order to re-establish monetary stability.

    This is more or less what the opposition are suggesting should be done by giving out huge tax cuts that mostly go to the rich anyway and still doesn’t cut the debt or create jobs.

    This leaves us only with growth. It is essential to sustain demand and return to growth without stoking up another credit bubble. This is going to be hard.

    Rudd is on partly doing this right because he’s not discouraging another credit bubble but he is rightly spending billions on growth, to not do so would be disastrous and the opposition know it, which is why they always skirt around the issue and refuse to say how big their spending meaning debt would be. Until they do that they are not a credible alternative government.

    That is why we should not have fallen into the quagmire in the first place.

    Thankyou John Winston, and no Peter you didn’t leave a great economy to this government, you left a very deficient one. Read up on just how well we would be off now if the previous government had spent the large surpluses that fell into their laps on infrastructure, social services and put them into infrastructure trusts, which they did just once when it became apparent the economy was heading into trouble and Costello began making intimations of hard times ahead and only they being able to handle it. Way too little way too late.

  67. Have I been spaminated?

  68. Mobius..from my sitting here..there has been a delay in the system. It went one, two, skip a few and now all back.

  69. Min, on May 30th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    Min, some journalists just rub me the wrong way. Steve Lewis and his ’emotive’ manipulations narratives (there’s always somebody angry about something in a ‘let’s you and him fight’ sense in Steve’s pieces) is one. Which leaves the vermin backpackers and the jetsetting expats to vanquish in a beggar-my-neighbour global economy where leakages cross-liquidities abound. By far my greater concern is the quantum that that was saved v. spent as that (non-)spending goes towards any stimulatory effect, not the c. 0.4% (using Tom’s figures) that was apparently wasted (without being dissipated in any way and still available for circulation, and by far the bulk of it not being wasted in any meaningful sense at all unless one buys into a very petty micro- and not a macro-economic perspective for the economics).

  70. are asking a lot from me on a Saturday fact most days 😉

    What is the problem re the stimulus package (Min waves to Daphon) being spent or saved? In fact I kinda like Daphon’s analogy…

    However, in the strict meaning of the term one creates jobs in the immediate, the other reduces debt thereby creating the ability to spend at a later, but not too later date.

  71. OK ………….thanks Legion

    Just the bog standard taxable income splitting………..or how to turn $360,000 into 4 lots of $90,000.

    As distinct from why no restaurants make money but people clamour to get into them and why taxi drivers dont make money either………………..but there are plenty of cabs and taxi plates cost a fortune

  72. there’s always somebody angry about something in a ‘let’s you and him fight’ sense in Steve’s pieces


  73. Saving the so called stimulus handout doesn’t provide much stimulation.

    Nor does providing Crown Casino with a 12% leap in revenue.

    For $10,000,000,000 we could have achieved a whole lot more stimulation.

  74. Min, on May 30th, 2009 at 2:06 pm Said:
    Legion..and the solution would have been?

    Give anyone over the age of 18 currently resident in Australia – $900

    Easy, fair, , simple, opportunity to spend or save …

    … I hate to say this but most politicians are dumb … and listen to PS simply making life complex for the rest of us – in communication terms its called “fogging” in business terms its called “downright incompetent” and “you want a job here …@#$&*()”

  75. At this stage in the government’s life – half way (?) – how do this lot compare to the last lot?

    Personally I’m not happy – but when I first posted on Blogocaracy I stated that all I wanted to do was to campaign to remove John Howard & The Private School Bullies…

    … what I’m seeing now is Kevin Rudd & The Rich Incompetents…

  76. thinking that this what was missing: Currently residing in Australia. But instead the government based the stimulus package on tax return/student/..and health card holder? My 85yr old mum received her $s..and believe me, she didn’t waste it.

    But..EVERYONE over the age of 18yrs? Millionaires? Residing in Australia..for prisoners, overseas students, 457 Visa holders, backpackers.

    It isn’t always as easy as it looks. Just the same as the suggestion that the $s should be only for citizens..but what about the oldies who have been paying their taxes for 40 yrs but never got around to becoming naturalised citizens. thinks that it won’t happen again..hopefully this will be the last of the one-of Howardesque handouts.

  77. “… what I’m seeing now is Kevin Rudd & The Rich Incompetents…”

    Yes we need more Fat Wogs and Skinny Wogs so they can

    Chk…………Chk………………..Booooooooooom ……..

    the lot of them

  78. TB Queensland, on May 30th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    But that’s nearly $20 billion, TB; and then there’s also pesky legal academics trying to make names for themselves by mounting Constitutional challenges in the High Court to consider, besides. 😉

  79. Min, on May 30th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    Min, theoretically, it’s a round. System state in the present influences system state in the future; it’s called a stimulus, but really it’s a counteract to a future depression; take the stimulus pill now and fend off depression; take the stimulus pill later, have the depression and the stimulus. Not quite the same thing

  80. counteractant*

  81. Min, I’m not sure why you would characterise these handouts as “Howardesque”.

    He gave cash handouts to pensioners, which I supported, just as I supported the payments to pensioners by the current government.

    I don’t recall the previous government providing cash handouts to all & sundry, including dead people.

    Why exactly is this any more “Howardesque” than “Ruddesque”?

  82. Far too confusing Legion. But then I see things in a linear manner. The 2nd take is as per Turnbull, let’s wait and see. That is, let’s see how bad it gets before we might/perhaps do something. Oh’s crook..maybe we ought to do something…

    To me having a go and stuffing it is better than never having a go at all. Never having a go is personified by JWH with eyes darting to and fro saying, You’ve never had it so good. And we all knew that he was fibbing..for example, that personal household debt was not sustainable, that record housing unaffordability was a disaster waiting to happen.

  83. Tom of Melbourne, on May 30th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    Arguably, Rudd (and Treasury) were giving out money so some individual people could have $900 to spend (a micro-economic focus) to meet macro-economic considerations about aggregate demand in the economy as a whole. It’s what, arguably, makes the Rudd exercise decidedly different from Howard’s disbursements (even if those, too, had macro-economic impacts).

  84. OK the post never appeared, so here goes again.

    This is for John Mac, and for Neil who contends Rudd is putting us unnecessarily into debt when the opposition are actually saying they will more or less put us in as much debt but do more long term damage.

    From Martin Wolf :

    We have three alternatives: liquidation; inflation; or growth.

    A policy of liquidation would proceed via mass bankruptcy and the collapse of a large part of the existing credit. That is an insane choice.

    That is what Neil is proposing by stating we should not have any debt at all at this time.

    A deliberate policy of inflation would re-awaken inflationary expectations and lead, inevitably, to another recession, in order to re-establish monetary stability.

    This is more or less the policy the opposition is proposing, but still going into massive debt by spending it on massive tax cuts that mostly benefit the wealthy and do nothing for employment, infrastructure, social services or reducing debt.

    This leaves us only with growth. It is essential to sustain demand and return to growth without stoking up another credit bubble. This is going to be hard.

    This is in part what Rudd is doing but also he’s partly creating a credit bubble. So Rudd is attempting to have it both ways maybe hoping he will be partly successful instead of an all or nothing bust that the opposition are proposing.

    That is why we should not have fallen into the quagmire in the first place.

    John Winston Howard’s big failure, and no Peter you did not leave a great economy to the current government, you left a very deficient one and you knew it was, which is why way too little way too late you started an infrastructure fund.

  85. OK my post failed again, will try something else, maybe it’s the block quotes.

  86. Tom..Howard’s 1st handout was supposed to compensate Pensioners for having to pay tax via the GST.

    Of course, pensioners had never previously had to pay tax due to their extremely low income…but the $500 was supposed to compensate them for having to pay tax via the GST.

    This is indeed a many pensioners received TWO X $500.00 when their partners had passed away in the interim.

    Tut, tut..those evil pensioners..they should have immediately offered to return the money.

    Tom: I characterise Howardesque as one-of non-specific ‘payments’ and this is why I didn’t like Rudd’s stimulus $900 because it wasn’t directed to anything specific.

  87. Min, on May 30th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    I have $900 dollars. You have a job. I save $900. You lose your job because I didn’t spend my $900 maintaining a job worth more than $900 to the economy. Because you didn’t earn $900 dollars in my spending my $900 now, I lose my job next, which is also worth more than $900 to the economy, because you didn’t have the $900 I didn’t pay to you for you to pay $900 to me to maintain my job. So, now I have $900 to spend later and no job; versus both of us having the $900 to use and circulate in the economy and maintain jobs which were worth more than $900 to the economy than the $900 I saved for later and didn’t spend now. That kinda thing.

  88. Mobius..while I have you. I did post previously re the matelot but I think that it might have got lost in the woodwork. He is on the patrol boats out of Cairns and will be down in Brisbane at the end of a LS.

  89. Yeah I read the previous post, been unbelievably busy with work and in and out in bursts (what GFC). Poor bloke a killick, the worst of all worlds having to live with the troops he is in charge of but still not an NCO.

    Best he keeps clean and works for that promotion to PO.

  90. Legion..but what happens if I don’t have a job to start with 😉 and I put the $900 to paying off my debt thereby keeping the wolf from the door.

    With apologies..have to choof as I have lamb roast Greek style on the go and am finally getting to see The Day the Earth Stood Still.

  91. Mobius…would you believe that son is now going on to be an 8yr man..time flies and all that. It’s a good crew up in Cairns. Son didn’t like it at first as they are swapped from one boat to the other and so was a very different from the Tobruk.

    Hehe, re killick will mention that one next time I speak with son..should I duck?

  92. Let us know what you think of the movie Min.

  93. Will do gorgeous. As you know one of my best ever movies was the original with Michael Rennie. I’m trying to keep an open mind about it. The original to my way of thinking was anti-Reds-under-the-bed as many previous sci-fi’s were the theme of Be afraid, be verrrry afraid of anyone who looks/thinks differently..if they are different, then they going to be bug-ugly and drool and eat babies.

    And then they came up with the very smooth, charming Michael Rennie stating…see we (Reds, Communists) are really and truly normal people.

    Lulling the gullible into a false sense of security..hehehe.

  94. Well said, Adrian, “worst of all worlds” (leading hand is virtually redundant in civvie street).

    Re: The Gough Whitlam Memorial Stimulus Package

    The posts above demonstrate why the “stimulus” should always have been about infrastructure – the multiplyer effect always end up with retail – and yet the government attempts to stimulate “backwards”…

    …stimulate work and productivity NOT spending and profit – for the friggin’ Robber Barons – they don’t have to make 200% profit constantly…

    …check ’em out – oh! retail sales are down 2%, this month, well golly gee!

    ….and the banks $2 billion profit (at the start of a recession!) – remember the big fanfare when the first bank made fleeced $1 billion off its Australian customers?

    I’ve just been to Hardly Normal (sorry, sreb) and a leather lounge went from $4999 to $3999 to $2499 in the space of ten minutes…we bought curtains yesterday (new carpet an’ all that) at Curtain Wonderland) – bloody wonderland, alright – by the time we’de finished with them the $279 curtains had tumbled to $149 – and as my son said, “…they still made $100…”

    …I still keep hearing that fuel prices have nosedived in Australia – BS! 120.99 down the road – Brisbane is still in Australia isn’t it!

  95. Min, my Mum ran into Michael Rennie (literally) on the Eastbourne (UK), seafront, just after WWII, Mum and Dad were both roller skating – they hadn’t been married long and Mum ws “smitten”, luckily Dad (the matelot) was a fan too!

  96. Min a two badge-man. A one badge killick is not bad going though.

    Two badges gold
    Too bloody old
    Three badges red
    Near bloody dead

    Killick is the proper name for a Leading Seaman. A killick is a small single anchor and a LS has a single anchor as a rank badge, which is where the term came from.

  97. Sorry joni/reb, I have tried four or five times to post what I believe is an important article from Martin Wolf. I have allowed a fair amount of time between attempts but it seems the spaminator really hates the link to the site containing the article.

    I thought the problem might have been me attempting nested quotes, which is why I kept trying to get the post through. It appears that the link is the problem.

    This is just a heads up that there are now four or five similar posts of mine in the queue.

  98. Cabbage and rice with some crazy sauce, first time i had it and it was very nice. Hours later is the problem.

    Free gas
    Tonight only !

  99. This flu thing has been badly handled by government and worst of all the media.
    Bird flu
    swine flu

    I feel sorry for the people with the virus put on the news(these are the people to fear).
    Future headline:
    Fish flu has hit our shores.

    A dislike to lemons and tartare sauce
    wetting yourself
    Constantly saying bob
    Hang out in big and small schools

  100. Mobius,

    I’ve just rescued that comment from spaminator…

    folks may need to scroll up to see it…

  101. Thanks reb appreciated.

    Good to see you believe in global warming then scaper as that is one of the factors Megalogenis mentions.

    George is pretty good and normally right down the middle calling it as he sees it. He should be heeded.

    Thanks for the link scaper.

  102. Hey Legion, back in yer ergonomically-designed box son. When I want Management advice from a member of tha chatterin class – he winks – I’ll talk to the corporate cook, OK?

  103. Global warming???

    George is one of the best going in my opinion, we’ve been communicating for a few years now and it is the only blog that I don’t use scaper as a screen name.

    I have passed the documentation I have received to substantiate my comments to George which is very interesting reading.

    Certain people have been made aware and I have a ‘hunch’ that next week might just be quite interesting.

  104. I Am The Walrus, I got sucked in by the BBC headline about Chinese fishing boats and posted the link before reading the story. Won’t get fooled again.

  105. George states global warming as one of the factors that make the governments figures on the amount of water saved in error as they don’t take that into account.

    It means George believes in global warming otherwise he would not have accounted for it in his figures. I gather that you quoting George on this also believe that global warming must be factored in and is a reality?

  106. Mobius says:

    “Killick is the proper name for a Leading Seaman.”

    Now I never knew that. So, Presevred Killick (a character in Patrick O’Bryan’s Master and Commander serves of novels who hangs around with the skipper, Lucky Jack Aubery, when the boss is on-shore, without a command and on half-pay), is a leading seaman.

    He’s “preserved” because our Jack saved him from drowning once. I guess that also explains the loyalty. Most squiddies in those days couldn’t swim, apparently.

    So I guess you’d be a squiddie yourself then, Mobius.

  107. Tom of Melbourne, on May 30th, 2009 at 3:58 pm Said:

    “I don’t recall the previous government providing cash handouts to all & sundry, …”

    He did, ToM. They were called tax cuts.

  108. Adrian, only the hard core fundamentalists seriously use the term, “global warming” these days, the shift has been made to “climate change” to reposition themselves to cover a possible variation in climate either way!

    Enough of that as there is a separate thread for discussion on this topic and I note that johnd over the other thread has wiped the floor with your arse…I tips my hat to johnd!

    I am somewhat perturbed by your aspersions concerning George and I suggest that you confront him at his blog instead of taking a cheap shot at him here.

    Sheesh, the thread I linked to is about the MDS and the government’s purchase of air to the tune of a third of a billion dollars and rising!

  109. Squiddie is an American Navy term and I never heard it used in the RAN. I paid off after 22 years of service a WO and am still a reservist.

    I toyed with going for a commission but couldn’t countenance going from the top of one heap to the bottom of another even though most changeovers get treated a bit better than rawbone officer recruits.

  110. Wrong scaper, global warming and climate change are two different things, read and be enlightened.

    It was actually the opponents to global warming that bought climate change into more common usage, or I should say the PR firm they used to muddy the waters, the same PR firm by the way that big tobacco used to muddy the waters during the cigarette causes cancer debate.

    And I made no aspersions against George whatsoever and methinks you are reading into it what is not there. I have nothing but the utmost respect for George and he is right at the top of the commentators I respect. I just rightly pointed out that George, in detailing the errors in the government’s calculation for water saved in the buy back, listed global warming as one factor not taken into account.

  111. I give up!

    To concentrate on whatever you believe in, instead of the real problems why the MDS is being degraded equates to Bob Brown spruiking his agenda whilst the corpses were still smouldering in the Victorian bush fires.

    Absolutely breathtaking!!!

  112. Mobius, oops, my mistake. Must be att that McDonalds.

    I had a brother who was a 22-year man in the RAAF. A techo, he ended-up a Flt Sgt. Used to say forget about the officers, its the non-coms that run the bloody services.

    They wanted to sent him to knife and fork school at one stage too, but he declined. The reason was something to do with the fact that once you get Her Majesty’s Commission, you’re not permitted (in the RAAF, anyway) to work on stuff with your hands any more. It’s considered too proletarian, or some such. Anyways, he reckons he never saw an officer touch as much as a screwdriver.

    So he told ’em to sod it and kept his hands dirty with his mates.

  113. Oh c’mon scaper, I also give up.

    I’m just as concerned as you and believe Rudd is failing miserably on this and agree with George M. I pointed out something George stated and you said he did not.

    Then you stated I made aspersions against George M when I did no such thing, and now you go into a tizzy because I put that aspersion you made against me to rights.

    I’m on your side on this but not to the point of making incorrect or misleading assertions and I will pick up what others say in contradiction or in corroboration.

  114. This is what George wrote.
    Climate change ‘may’ well reduce that amount to less than 100GL in public hands.
    This does not indicate his opinion at all!

    He runs a policy blog that is based on data and government policy.

    If pink elephants were government policy and it was not allowed for in the handling of a topic in question he would point that out regardless of his personal beliefs.

  115. Hello Aqua. Fish flu doesn’t concern me as I don’t think I will ‘catch’ it, but I wondering if they will need to close the ‘schools’.

    Is it too early in the day for this?

  116. Sorry scaper I’m not going to get bogged down in this but the fact he mentions climate change as a possible factor is telling, otherwise why do it?

    He puts it in a standalone paragraph. But if you want to pretend he means nothing by it and doesn’t believe it ‘may’ be a factor, and put it in just because it looks good then that’s your prerogative, I’m not going to argue that point with you.

  117. [Scroll on by…]

    Apparently, treating hardened terrorists as human beings tends to stop them thinking of interrogators as purely evil enemies and more as human beings…and this helps get them to talk. Who’d have thunk it?

  118. Hehe Migs. Great retort even if you were a wee bit slow. Reminds me of Shallow Hal..It has to be a quip not a slooowp 😉

    And how is the boat going Aqua..and will it be available for the next Blogocrat’s wine and dine? The Day the Earth Stood Still. Sadly, it’s a 2 1/2 star effort in my (and Jeff’s) opinion. First part was groan, they’ve missed they essence of the original..a poor man’s Independance Day, that is minus the guts and the passion. It improved slightly but missed it completely re the character of Klaatu..and in fact completely missed the plot in all meanings of the word.

    Keanu Reeves certainly has the physical presence to make a credible Klaatu but his performance reminded me of: I’m killing time until someone gives me a decent script.

    Fair enough, that the script writers decided to delete the original ’51 plot of I Come In Peace To Bring Goodwill to the human being a wee bit too corny..but why delete the entire thing with the exception of an alien with a robot landing in Central Park?

    There were 2 moments in the original, the visit to Arlington National Cemetery (and Klaatu’s dismay at senseless deaths) and then Klaatu reading the inscription on the Lincoln Memorial. These 2 events suggests that the human race has choices. In the current version of the movie, this was translated to, We can do better, we can change..and that was just about it.

    And the 2 1/2 stars is generous except for the 8-14yr age group who would probably even yawn about the special effects but who would enjoy the robot…who put more feeling into his performance than did Keanu Reeves. [How am I going Kevin R??].

  119. Miglo, on May 31st, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    G’day Migs, well I’m “hooked” but I’ll certainly avoid any “bait and breakfast” (boom, boom …) accommodation while I’m out “catching” a bit of free time … just finished redecorating the main bedroom and I’m “battered” – “crumbs” is that the time …

    WT coming up – “clink” to all …

  120. won’t ‘catch’ him, Migs will have put his anchor into the lounge chair to watch the ‘Port’ game. However, we might be able to ‘lure’ him out later.

    Be careful about too many clinks TB or else you might feel ‘filleted’ tomorrow.

  121. Min, TB, I can feel that you’re making ‘waves’. Can you please ‘scale’ it down.

  122. G’day Min,

    Poppin’ in an’ out after reading some of the current threads…and about to do some practice (singing) …

    … re The Day the Earth Stood Still – I only saw it a few weeks ago (daughter had hired it – one of the advantages of family in the same street both son and daughter drop in hired movies – very cheap 😉 )

    I was determined NOT to compare it to theMichael Rennie version (one of my all time favourites) – and I reckon the message was deliberately different for different times and issues – the 1951 (that long ago?) version was all about war and the nuclear threat that our generation lived with as children into adulthood (must be getting close to a remake of – “On The Beach”?)… this new version (of TDTESS) is about how we have affected the planet with our emissions (ie global warming/climate change). Different generations – different message …

    I’m sorry, Margaret (read MIn), I have to disagree with you on this one – I’m giving it 3 stars – (BTW The Minister gave it 31/2)

  123. I think that I should ‘tackle’ you about that one Migs.

  124. Min, on May 31st, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    Typical female (aaagh! KL, wil pounce!) just “spinning” a “line” now…

  125. thing that I wish that I could is sing. I love to sing, but sadly everyone hates listening.

    Well..we’re only a 1/2 star apart and so the consensus is fair to middling. To me it is just that the movie was minus gutsiness (well you know what I mean). I was just a bit disappointed about the bland performance of Keanu Reeves. He can obviously act, but he didn’t do much of it in this movie. Now that I have seen both interpretations, am thinking 70/30 to Michael Rennie.

  126. Min 70/30. Yes!

    KR always seems a bit “bland” to me – but then I’m not a fan of John Travolta, one of the “corniest” actors I know .. someone very close to me is a big fan though!

    Bit like Micheal Douglas – compared to his father (Kirk for those X and Y Gens) Micheal always came across as ” weak” in the roles he played …

  127. are obviously not looking forward to ‘spawning’ in the near future.

    [Took me a while to think of that one]. A wonderful evening to all.

  128. TB, I enjoy some of Travolta’s earlier performances..probably up until Pulp Fiction but then I think that his Scientology beliefs got in the way.

    However, I thought that his more recent portrayal of Mrs Turnblad in Hairspray was excellent.

    Funny that you mention Kirk Douglas as I was just thinking about him and Burt Lancaster…which gets us to The Devil’s Disciple (the play by George Bernard Shaw). Mind you, they did have to play cowboys to earn their bread and butter but excellent if somewhat under-rated actors in my opinion.

  129. Spawning!

    I’ve done enough “spawning” – from two “sprats” we’ve ended up with a “pod” of eleven! (There’s a fishy word in eleven somewhere – Blogocrats will help!)

    re: singing – its amazing how a “grouper” of singers can sound – compared to a “sole” singer …

    I do hope, Migs, is beginning to get a bit “jacked” off by now …

  130. Min, gotta go – another lovely evening here – a lovely one to you guys!

    Each day is a gift, that’s why we call it the present! 😀

    You and The Boss got so close – NSW is the doorway to …

    Oh! and cover your mouth and nose when you cough or sneeze and wash your hands regularly! How MUCH did we pay for this nonsense – I do this now – those that don’t – won’t … (advert on now)

  131. Yes, I am getting jacked off . . . but with the footy.

    Quickly changing the subject, I was disappointed with the 2008 version of The Day The Earth Stood Still. I’m not comparing with the original (one of my favourite movies) but evaluating it on its own.

    To me, it lost credibility when Klaatu’s ship landed. Klaatu’s ship, it was thought, was an asteroid that was going to obliterate New York. Why then, were the army gathered at the impact site? And why were they armed? Did they intend to shoot the asteroid?

    Since when do we shoot astreoids?

  132. Migs, as we tell our grandkids (and each other) “…its a movie …” 🙂 …

    … and movie opinions are always personal …

    … I’m posting ’cause I was watching CSI – and I’m fed up of watching “cop” shows telling me why “bad guys” are “justified” in being “bad guys”…

    … FFS we all have “reasons” to become bad guys but most of us don’t!

  133. Toiletboss
    That’ll learn ’em! (the parents) Who is going to be sorry now!

  134. How annoying and rude was Andy Bolt on Insiders this am? He talked over all the others, refused to listen to anybody else and Barrie Cassidy had to cut him off all the time so that someone else could get a word in.

    Why do they continually allow Bolt to behave like that? He should be told to interact politely and considerately or don’t bother coming. It’s quite off-putting from a viewer perspective.

  135. Been frolicking at the AMA conference this weekend. Yawn.

  136. gabBeen frolicking at the AMA conference this weekend. Yawn.

    Topics of discussion?

  137. I have be very busy and remain so, so I am not sure if this topic has been discussed anywhere but wanted to let my blogocrat friends know of this bit of a scam being perpetrated by the Banks which seems to have gone unnoticed.

    With Credit Cards you used to gat a statement issue after the interest charging date giving you until the next interest charging date to make a payment.

    For example my David Jones card charges interest on the 13th of every month. I get a statement showing my balance and requesting the next payment by 13 of the following month. This gives you the whole month to make the payment.

    Many Banks are now doing the following. Issuing the statement after the Interest Charging date and then only giving 2 weeks to make the full payment. So if you make fortnightly or weekly payments they are not incuded in the fortnight unless paid within the exact fortnight and therefore you are charged a late payment fee even if you made a fortnightly payment before the interest charged date.

    It is a sneaky way of charging people who pay weekly or fortnightly.

    The bastards.

  138. Thank you Shane. I will let my crew know about this. Hubby and I don’t have any credit cards..just a visa card with a zero credit limit from Southern Cross CU. A bit of a nuisance sometimes as when we want to buy online we have to go into the CU and deposit the $s into the account. However..this certainly helps with unnecessary spending.

  139. And I have been missing from here too. My mother had been diagnosed with breast cancer, and is requiring an urgent mastectomy. This has all come as a sudden shock.

    And so – I have been away for the weekend – back in the country – where I have been catching up with all the family. And I am just emotionally drained – gotta keep blackie under control.

    But let me just say here that when critical illness is involved, hospitals and the medical staff do a wonderful wonderful job. My mother has been telling us how considerate all the staff have been, and how the treatment has been dealt with with speed.

    Hugs to all.

  140. Jon..I was wanting to write to you but I am still on my old computer and don’t have your email address.

  141. Joni,

    Hope everything goes well for your Mum…

  142. Joni, that is awful news.

    I’m sure everyone here is thinking of you, and one way or another we’ll probably all pray that your mother recovers her health.

    Best wishes


  143. Poss has a new post up over at Pollytics on the ABS stats and last month’s unemployment figures:

    Me thinks a few of us might have been a little bit too harsh on the ABS cutbacks, particularly insofar as they relate to unemployment figures. According to Poss, the effect of the reduction in sample size was an increase in the MOE of a ‘massive’ +/- 0.03%.

  144. joni

    Thinking of all of you and hope everything goes well for your mum.

  145. All the best for you mum joni.

    I know what she is going through as Jedda went through the same ordeal a few yeras ago. It’s gut wrenching.

    Be strong.

  146. Jon..have written off-blog.

  147. Joni,

    All the best for your mum.

  148. Might I say that my ruptured know, the electric shock around one’s L3-L5 which happened this morning doesn’t seem very important now.

  149. Thanks all.

  150. very shitty news Joni, hope your mum and the family have the strenght to get throught it.

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