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Midweek Mayhem!


Good afternoon, and welcome to Midweek Mayhem, the place where we get to talk about anything and everything – now with the enhanced possibility of some infrastructure spending to revamp the place a bit. The decor could do with a bit of an overhaul don’t you think?

Well with less than three weeks to go until Budget night (it’s almost like Christmas isn’t it, except Santa will no doubt be a miserable old f**ker this year), we’re all waiting, some more than others, with eager anticipation of what the Budget may hold.

We’ve already received heavy hints from the powers that be that “Middle class welfare” will be in the Government’s sights as will clamping down on tax rorts and on it goes.

There’s also talk of a further “stimulus” package. This time focusing on infrastructure spending as opposed to just a “cash hand out”. Speaking of which, where’s my nine hundred bucks?

Anyway, all will be revealed in 20 days time, and all will be unveiled here at Blogocrats as the news is released due to my reliable inside sources of on-the-spot credible information.

Depending on who you listen to, the world is about to end.

Qantas is about to collapse, along with Holden, and the only vehicle manufacturers that will be left alive in the world in 24 months time will be those producing two-wheeled, hemp fueled, solar powered, wind-propelled tampons.

But the good news is that Climate Change is no longer going to kill us all.

In a surprise discovery, Antartica is actually getting bigger, not smaller, so there you go, panic over. No one seemed to notice, which makes you wonder what all the fuss was about in the first place. No wonder Penny Wong’s been quiet for a while.

Meanwhile Kevin Rudd’s Mac Book “Tool box of the Future” has been replaced with a more up with the times budget conscious “Can Opener” as Australia braces itself for a resurgence in “home cooking on a budget” – “101 things you thought you could never do with Spam,” “How to make a hearty Baked Bean Bollognaise on a Budget” – fun for the whole family, and my personal favourite – “Traditional Bread n’ Butter pudding made with some old leftover congealed wallpaper paste.”

But despite the pessimists, there are signs of economic recovery on the horizon.

Loosely translated that means things don’t seem to be getting any worse.

At least as far as the markets are concerned anyway.

However it is worth noting that it takes on average 12.5 months for a resurgence in the markets to be felt in the local economy, so the remainder of 2009 is still going to be pretty tough. Unless you can hang on to your job, in which case you’re probably wondering “what recession?”

It’s times like these that bring out the best in people. Or is it. Who cares? I don’t.

One has to commend the inspired US airline that’s created Business Class for the family pooch. Let’s face it, pretty soon they’ll be the only ones that’ll be able to afford to fly.

May the Lord comfort, strengthen and guide you.

Here is some light humour from my favourite comedienne…


407 Responses

  1. Although I gladly support our local industry by purchasing the occasional bottle of Australian red.
    Not that any of you would be aware of this of course…

    reb, on April 22nd, 2009 at 3:13 pm Said:

    What a Ruby Grapefruit Bacardi Breezer……………………………..?

    That would be your style I bet….!

    PISSHEAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  2. Reb, the Australian wine industry in indebted to you.

  3. I like to do my bit Miglo.

    I’m very big on self sacrifice.

    If the Australian wine industry needs me, I’ll be there to prop it up. Singlehandedly if I must…

  4. reb

    We agree on one thing Judith Lucy is one of my favourite comediennes as well. But how dare you demonise Bread and Butter Pudding one of my favourite desserts.

    Speaking of desserts I made a Black Cherry and Cream Cheese strudel a few days ago from scratch and it was superb, better than a restaurant strudel.

  5. Hmm. I don’t have much where to put it. But it’s hubby’s 61st birthday today. This is a bloke who was not expected to live past his 40th birthday having contracted poliomelitis when he was 9 months old. This is a bloke who spent the first 5 years of his life in hospital.

    This is a bloke to threw off his callipers in order to play cricket.

    This is a bloke who was told that he could never have children.

    And this is my beloved, my husband.

  6. Oh come now Shane,

    Bread n butter pudding is just soldified congealed muck.

    But I am impressed with your Black Cherry Strudel though. I’m still not convinced how cream cheese manages to rate a mention there, but I’m prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt.

    I once saw Judith Lucy in Sydney a few years ago. Hilarious. We also agree that economy-wise, things are not necessarily as bad as we’re being led to believe by the meja.

  7. Congratulations Min and to your husband.

  8. Congratulations MIn and hubby and many more to come.

  9. reb

    Your criticism of B & B Pudding is now bordering on scandalous accustions of untruth.

    B & B Pudding is a delicious combination of top quality ingredients and not congelaed muck.

  10. “top quality ingredients????”

    Some manjey old left over bread crusts half a packet of sugar, a handful of raisins (for texture) and half a pound of lard to hold it all together…and that’s “top quality ingredients…????”

  11. How bizarre………….!

    According to Commsec the All Ordinaries finished 1 point (yes 1 point not percent) down today.

    So why did they bother opening at all….?

  12. Huggy squishes reb et al. It is hubby who has reached the age of 61 when the prognosis was could never father children and wouldn’t live must past 40yrs. This is due to polio.

  13. how dare you trivialise and deflate one of my favourite desserts.

    I make it with the following top quality ingredients.

    Bread ( not crusts and not stale)
    Butter and jam
    My own farm eggs
    Raisins ( they are bloody well good for you reb)

    As for lard, thats what I am carrying for eating all these desserts :). Wonder how much lard you are carrying reb ?

  14. Bread and butter pudding is for the geriatrics, aint it reb.

  15. Shane,

    I’ll have you know I regularly get mistaken for Brad Pitts!

    People come up to me in airports all the time asking “aren’t you….”

    “Yes, yes” I reply modestly, “I know, you’re going to say Brad Pitts aren’t you..”

    And then I just get blank stares.. I wonder why.

    I have a question for you. I’m thinking of fixing my interest (split the loan part fixed part variable) on one of my many thousands of investment properties.

    Should I do it now, or wait to see if they drop further? The signals or “vibe” I’m getting is that the banks are raising fixed interest rates upwards as perhaps a sign of things to come…

    what do you think?

  16. Shane..it should be made with the left over bread. And if you soak it then then crusts and stale are fine.

    Now if anyone can come up with a recipe for tapioca pudding…(aka frogs eggs).

  17. Exactly Migs.

    Geriatrics who drool and have to wear bibs when they eat.

    It’s just post war muck. Like Yorkshire pudding – deep fried fat infested dough, and yet people rave about the stuff.

  18. Reb, buy now. I don’t think the banks will pass on any further cuts even if the RBA lowers rates again.

    And if you’re selling anything make sure you paint it first.

  19. aaah tapioca pudding!

    My partner used to make a Malaysian version with Pandan leaves, coconut cream and palm sugar when we had the restaurant. It even got a write up in Gourmet Traveller…!!

    There’s a secret to getting it right.

    Otherwise it ends up like any other one of those congealed muck post war desserts like BREAD AND BUTTER PUDDING!

  20. reb, on April 22nd, 2009 at 4:14 pm Said:

    what do you think?

    I’d be tempted to delay as a few of my lads tell me that the squeeze in the credit market at the moment is largely due to the huge number of equity raisings going on as Corporates try some running repairs to their balance sheets.

    Plus some big Super Funds are draining their cash into equities That’s why banks are experiencing a bit of a squeeze at the moment.

  21. reb

    Brad Pitts pleeeassseeeee, more like The Pitts 🙂

    Banks are raising their fixed rates at the moment and the only reason I can think of is that they think we may have reached or be very close to the bottom of the interest rate drops.

    I cannot advise anyone whether they should fix or not as I so not have a crystal ball.

    I do however tell my customers the following.

    If you want certainty for a period of time and are happy with the rate at the time then lock in. However if you are a person that will get ulcers if rates go down further then maybe you should consider waiting.

    Fixing should only be considered as having certainty in repayments for a determined period of time and not a way to beat interest rate movements ( or the Banks) because that is the same as trying to pick the top or bottom of the stock market.

    Having said that I had the Westpac State Commercial Manager visit yesterday and he fixed his investment loan about 12 months ago at 7.5% for 7 years.He maintained that if you can fix for 5 years or more at 8% or less then you will win.

    I agree with your only fixing a portion, that way you can enjoy any further reduction if it does happen.

  22. That’s what I’m thinking Migs, fix part of it now.

    And thanks for the subtle hint about the painting.

    It’s still on the “to do” list.

    The only thing is, the “to do list” doesn’t rate very highly on the “priority list”.

    So they’re best both filed away for safe keeping I reckon.

  23. Everybody…better get fit and lose some weight or you will be getting a visit in the future from the Climate Police!


  24. tapioca pudding is worse than B & B pudding, leathery chewey frogs eggs.

  25. Reb, my mum used to make runniest, sloppiest bread and butter pudding. I spent many nights in my childhood defending my rights to not eat the bloody trash.

    I’d peel back some soggy bit of bread only to find a raisin floating on the watery surface.

    No wonder the stuff went out of vogue.

  26. Thanks Shane.

    NAB quoted me 5.49% for a fixed rate of two years yesterday, so I reckon I’ll fix two thirds and then leave the other third variable so that I can make extra repayments with all that surplus cash I have lying around the house…

  27. “leathery chewey frogs eggs”

    ah, see, this is where you lot are all mistaken.

    There is a closely guarded secret as to how to make Sago pudding the most deliciously silky and decadent melt in the mouth dessert you could ever wish for.

    We used to have people order the Sago dessert when they made their dinner reservation !!

  28. Reb, are you looking for an investment property or a residential?

  29. Migs…I love bread and butter pud with sultanas and licorce straps and minties and home made plum jam (served separately).

    Hmmm reb. Well when are you and partner going to visit? I promise..I’ll cook a Malay curry and not infict anything too bletch..via youngest at least I now know the difference between an Indian curry and an Eastern curry. Catch as catch can, but I will do my best.

  30. MIn

    Make sure you serve B & B pudding when they visit 🙂

  31. NAB quoted me 5.49% for a fixed rate of two years yesterday

    reb, on April 22nd, 2009 at 4:23 pm Said:

    Beware the fees…………!

  32. Migs,

    I’ve already got the investment property, but the mortgage is 100% variable. I’m just thinking of locking in two thirds of it as fixed for 2 or 3 years, while the interest rates are low…

  33. From the link provided by the Mayor of Crapperville, Miglo please note –

    “THE rising number of fat people has been blamed for global warming, with scientists saying having a heavy body is like driving a petrol-guzzling car.”

  34. more than welcome reb

  35. I wonder if my gas after eating vegemite or cabbage contributes to global warming. May have to look at the veges I grow more carefully.

  36. I did note that Tom. Thank God I drive to work instead of walking.

  37. Feel free to fart to you heart’s content Shane. I hear that it’s only cows whose farts are breaking down the ozone layer. Something to do with the methane content in their wind.

  38. Tom is like a fart in an elevator.

  39. I did note that Tom. Thank God I drive to work instead of walking.

    Miglo, on April 22nd, 2009 at 4:32 pm Said:

    Hang on……………………….if you live in Canberra to get anywhere all you’d have to do is kick in the clutch and roll down the next hill……………………………….then again being a lazy good for nothing public servant I suppose you drive an automatic.

  40. Agreed reb…re tapioca/sago pudding..it’s lucious and and sweet. And if the urbans had it dished up to them in a small plate with a little greenery or flowers scattered on the plate and charged $35 then they would swoon about interesting subtle flavours.

  41. Does anyone use twitter?

  42. Not me reb, but the publicity it’s been getting over the last 6 months is tempting me to take a look.

    But some other day though.

  43. Exactly Min. Not to mention the combination of rich coconut cream and palm sugar syrup. 🙂

  44. Me neither Miglo.

    My partner uses it and thinks its marvelous. Which is enough to put me off using it.

  45. “Dear Mr Insider”

    I’ve been sniggering all afternoon!

    Now my eyes are watering and it stings.

    You kill me, Reb!

  46. Reb..re palm sugar..has anyone actually tried to grate it. It requires industrial machinery!

  47. Scaper, that article about the fatties links to The Sun. Suggest the straight gentlemen folk here scroll down the sidebar and browse around Page 3.

  48. “Tom is like a fart in an elevator.”

    Miglo, in the company I keep, “fart” is regarded as an impolite term. Still I suppose you got another definition entirely wrong earlier. This is another example and is a sad reflection on the state of our public service selection and development processes these days. No wonder you have a grumpy boss.

    On the other hand we have the Lord Mayor of Crapperville popping in from time to time. So I’ll move on Miglo, there’s good work to be done here!

    The Lord Mayor is making all sorts of interesting, provocative, insightful observations, just as we would hope.

    Please tell us more!

  49. reb, I think we are excluded from Tony’s “gentlemen folk” 😦

  50. Scaper,

    re “Dear Mr Insider”.

    I’m glad you enjoyed that. I aim to please…

    I must admit it gave me a laugh too when I saw it published!


  51. No, not excluded Joni. Just didn’t think you’d be interested.


  52. With apologies…due to being able to clock in only sometimes and therefore if I get it wrong..

    Tom doesn’t associate with people who use the word ‘fart’?

    When my crew were littlies, it was a pongy, a smelly. After conferring with hubby it’s also known as a dutch oven.

  53. I’ll throw you a bone…I’ve decided to go into politics.

    My dilemma is what party to join (or who will have me) so I might just start my own…the Crapperville Alliance Party has a nice ring to it…don”t you think???

    Scrub that last question.

    Now there is two questions…how do I get voted in without getting my supporters (flies) on the electoral rolls?

    And how do I teach them to fill in the ballot sheets?

    If I can overcome these obstacles I could be PM or even Secretary General of the UN!

    Why stop there…I could be the conqueror of the WORLD!!!

    You can address me in future as “The Lord Of the Flies.”

    I always knew I had a special purpose in life…

  54. Suggest the straight gentlemen folk here scroll down the sidebar and browse around Page 3.

    Tony, on April 22nd, 2009 at 5:06 pm Said:

    Gaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww !

    And then there’s Min talking about “palm” sugar

  55. reb and all other b&b pudding haters, I’m shocked and amazed at your vitriolic abuse of a noble and utterly delicious sweet.

    My mother and both grandmothers were magicians of puddings and their b&b puddings were sublime! None of this watery stuff-the pudding should be cooked in a bain marie so the egg custard doesn’t split. We always had fat juicy sultanas and plenty of them, rather than raisins.

    And tapioca and sago were regulars on the menu. I have never cooked either. In fact, I very rarely cook sweets because we eat them, generally with huge dollops of cream and ever-expanding waist lines.

    Who could pass up chocolate self-saucing pudding with cream and icecream? Or light-as-a-feather fluffy golden syrup dumplings, also with indecent helpings of thick delicious cream? Or baked cheesecake, or…….. You understand why I don’t make sweets.

    Min, give your wonderful hubby an extra giant hug for his birthday. Congratulations to him for defying the odds and for being smart enough to marry you!!!

    I hope you find a brilliant tapioca recipe and if you do, please pass it on. Bugger, now I want a giant helping of boiled egg custard.

  56. “Crapperville Alliance Party” = “CAP”

    Howabout the Crapperville Regional Alliance Party..?

  57. “Who could pass up chocolate self-saucing pudding with cream and icecream?”

    No one in the reb household Jane. I’m an ice cream addict (amongst other things).

    But Bread n butter pudding..??? Spare me your fanciful frolick down your childhood memory lane. It is a vile, VILE creation…

  58. Miglo, in the company I keep, “fart” is regarded as an impolite term. Still I suppose you got another definition entirely wrong earlier. This is another example and is a sad reflection on the state of our public service selection and development processes these days. No wonder you have a grumpy boss.

    Whatta ya know. Tom’s a psychologist.

    All I did was use the word “fart”.

  59. scaper, I suggest you call your new party the Crapperville Revolutionary Alliance Party. That would definitely have a ring (of confidence?) to it.

  60. Jane, nice to see you. There’s a fellow on here that’s been making fun at me (on another thread) about being a Port suporter. He rudely reckons that Port supporters are convicts.

    But because I believe in diplomacy I refuse to reveal the fiend’s identity. I’m too loyal to a person’s privacy to do such a thing. I will submit to no amount of coaxing. My lips are sealed.

    It was Tom.

  61. You can refer to me as “Dear Mr Scaper!”

    Thankyou, Reb…

  62. I think I still prefer “Lord Mayor”

    if it still pleases your highness……

  63. I am offended whenever I hear a Victorian use the word “crapperville”. It’s not a word used in my circle of Victorian friends.

    It clearly indicates that people who use that word have heavy set foreheads and are of a criminal mind. Their skulls are thicker than that of a prolific farter which obviously suggest a smaller brain. They do not have a full set of teeth. Victorian Crapperville sayers fit all the above criteria.

    Tasmanian users on the other hand, are intelligent and witty.

  64. Oh shucks, Reb…you can call me whatever you like.

    As long as it is not TOM!

    I’m not that thick skinned.

  65. Jane..most definitely sultanas rather than raisins (surely a political message within this one).

    Thank you for your wishes for hubby’s 61st.

    Me thinks that the difference Jane was that in the ye olde days that everything was in very small portions. I look at mum’s pudding bowl and it’s smaller than a one-serve spaghetti bowl.

    I don’t know that hubby was lucky for marrying me..but his mum thought that he was 🙂

  66. If there is one thing that is genuinely bothering, it is when someone uses my facetiousness/sarcasm as an invitation to continue to post nonsense.

    Miglo, you’re excused, as you’re a tax dodging public servant, a petrol head, who supports a hoon footy team. While you should know better, you occasionally show some signs of being willing to learn.

    However, the mayor should try harder to stick to his role here, which is posting factual information about botox, breast augmentation, HOT wives and his vision for metropolis in the dead centre of our wide, dusty, fly blown land.

    We all have a job to do here, now get on with it!

  67. Tom of Melbourne, on April 22nd, 2009 at 6:04 pm Said:
    If there is one thing that is genuinely bothering, it is when someone uses my facetiousness/sarcasm as an invitation to continue to post nonsense…..

    So why post it unless you were expecting responses to be the equivalent, ie nonsense.

  68. I’m off to the golf club for a couple of hours where I will suck on a cuban.

  69. Half your luck Miglo.

  70. It’s great to see the construction unions so eagerly back in business.

    It seems that the CFMEU are very busy denying that they’ve engaged some bikies to undertake “security” activities on their picket lines at the Westgate Bridge.

    The at times violent picket has needed up to 200 police (and apparently some bikies) to maintain lawful behaviour.

    It seems that while the unions say the dispute is about wages, it is really about coverage. The CFMEU and AMWU walked away from the agreement that the AWU had in place, the more militant unions took on a dispute to get coverage and a new agreement.

    Unions – at your service. Great work, as always.

  71. Don’t Believe The Hype, The Independent newspaper’s award winning Middle East correspondent Robert Fisk last week took the BBC to task for refusing to broadcast factually-accurate stories about the State of Israel that jewish journalists and media organisations do cover.

    Details from this link http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-how-can-you-trust-the-cowardly-bbc-1669281.html

  72. Thanx for the Fisk-link Mark.

  73. Read all about it!

    Rupert Murdoch provided my story of the week when he said: “Nobody is making money with free content over the web except search. People are used to reading everything on the net free and that is going to have to change.”

  74. Looks like Israel is actually going to be held accountable by the United States for all sorts of ugly, short-sighted behaviour, including deliberately destroying European Union and United Nations funded Palestinian infrastructure in December and January this year.

    Check this link for more detail: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/articles/2009/04/18/1239475070218.html

  75. Mark,

    Robert Fisk last week took the BBC to task for refusing to broadcast factually-accurate stories about the State of Israel

    No, he didn’t. Fisk criticised the BBC Trust’s “findings that the BBC Middle East editor, Jeremy Bowen, had breached guidelines on accuracy and impartiality.”

  76. Tom of M

    I cannot locate any news about the union debarkle at westgate bridge.

    Can you give me a link please

  77. In a demonstration of how sensible the readership is here, not one comment has been written disputing Reb’s claim:

    In a surprise discovery, Antartica is actually getting bigger, not smaller, so there you go, panic over.

    Anyone who needs convincing, however, could start http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25372987-601,00.html“>here.

  78. Tony, it seems that the reef is recovering too.


    I like the first word in the link…very scientific, don’t you think?

  79. Scaper,

    Whew, close call.

  80. Tony

    I read the report in the Australian and from reading the whole report it appears that no conclusions can be truly drawn.

    The Artice continues to melt and the Antarctic continues to cool.

    It appears the thin sheet ice is expanding but there are no conlusions on the main mass ice sheet.

    There is increasing evidence that the loss of sea ice in the Arctic is a result of human activity.

    The cooling in Antarctica is expected to reverse as the ozone layer repairs itself over the century due to removal of cholroflourocarbons by humans over the last 10-20 years. This will then result in the Antarctica ice melting again, according to the so called specialists.

    All I know is that trees do the following.
    1) Provide the essential life giving oxygen
    2) Shelter the earth from the suns ultra violet rays keeing the temperature much cooler than open areas.
    3) Absorb most of the carbon emmissions in the atmosphere created either naturally or man made and hold that carbon even when dead and duried.
    4) QLD alone clears 6,000 square kilometres of bushland per year, so what is the rate world wide.
    5) Even if we manitain or reduce our man made carbon emmissions we continue to destroy natures carbon collection and storage system that absorbs even natures natural pollutions.

    While I am not a greeny I can see that our actions will eventually destroy the one thing that makes survival on our planet possible.

  81. scaper

    Did you read the last few sentences of the report on the reef ?

  82. There is increasing evidence that the loss of sea ice in the Arctic is a result of human activity.

    Only if you believe the current warming can be attributed to human activity (which I don’t), and only if you believe there is any real long-term loss of ice in the Arctic (which I don’t).

  83. (Doh! First sentence above is a quote from Shane.)

  84. Gab, isn’t that the Murdoch trademark? Screw everybody.

    I don’t mind if he wants to charge me to read his right wing propaganda. I simply won’t read it. That’s why I don’t buy his trashy newspapers.

    His poor editors must lose sleep at night in the knowledge that I can read good things about the Rudd Government for free on the internet.

  85. And still no sensible discussion, Tony, even with Scaper’s adding reefs to blah blah on the West coast of Antarctica blah blah on the main Antarctic ice-sheet., and blah blah global (emphasis on the global) warming as that may or may not pertain to local things? Cool. (pardon the pun) 😉

  86. Legion,

    And after your comment, still no sensible discussion.


  87. Do you mean…”The Global Coral Reef Monitoring Network says many surviving reefs “COULD” be lost over the coming decades as CO2 emissions continue to increase.”

    I thought the science was settled so is this “could” be referring to it is not settled?

    I suppose that nature’s adaption to climate change over the life of this planet was just “lucky”?

    Legion, that was a strange post…what happened, did the cat swallow your thesaurus?

  88. Tony, on April 23rd, 2009 at 9:07 am

    What can I say, Tony? I was rather hoping on Antarctica being revealed as an archipelago of islands beneath the ice,and not a continent, and for all the advanced Atlantis technology the Nazis went looking for to emerge from its hoary cradle, and reunite us with our star-parents off in distant Duat. Otherwise, I adhere to the ideas of an electric universe based in the 4th state of matter, plasma, and that the Solar system as plasma cell simply building up inductive charge as it passes through a particularly dusty region of space.

  89. Legion,

    About half-past nine?

  90. Tony, on April 23rd, 2009 at 9:31 am

    Decidedly not!. It’s always mere seconds to midnight on the doomsday clock in the land of the long faces, whatever the artifices and devices of Earthly revolution say the time might be.

  91. Tony

    If you do not believe why did you post a report which states it is incresingly evident that human activity has contributed to the melting of the ice sheet in the Arctic and that human activity by way of chloroflurocarbons contributed to the ice growth in the Antarctic.

  92. Legion, on April 23rd, 2009 at 9:29 am Said:

    Legion…………………for your sake I do hope you are on halucinegenic drugs this morning………………….!

  93. Take it from me, Shane, I do not believe.

  94. In a demonstration of how sensible the readership is here, not one comment has been written disputing Reb’s claim:

    Tony, on April 23rd, 2009 at 8:14 am Said:

    I think you might be generalising a bit there Tony. The whole climate thing bores me as I’m not totally convinced either.

    So on this subject I’m on your side of the fence.

  95. Shane

    The construction unions in Victoria (and elsewhere) have a shameful history.

    The article below puts the current activities into a little historical context and explains how these unions screw up investor confidence.


    This article is a brief overview –


    Some of us warned about the likely union behaviour following the federal election. While the recession has moderated some of the excess, the basic culture of lawlessness remains.

    These unions will take any opportunity to cause mayhem, and further undermine investor confidence in our fragile economy.

  96. Tom

    Thanks for the links. If the allegations are correct then they should be dealt with under the full force of the law.

    It is a disgrace for this to be happening.

    Having said that the majority of unions are not militant at all.

  97. It’s a bit of a sign of the times I suppose.

    I drive past Sydney Airport everyday and there is a particular section of the airport where you will see a few 747s from overseas carriers parked each morning and replaced by others the following morning.

    Unusually for the last 3 mornings there has been the same Singapore Airlines A380 Airbus ( the brand new giant of the skies) parked there all this time. A brand new piece of hardware with nothing to do………………… No wonder fares are cheap.

  98. Shane, I agree that most unions are responsible. Just as most people are responsible and law abiding.

    The police exist to maintain order for those of us that live by the laws of society.

    Equally, there should be hard edged policing of those unions that behave outside the law. But these unions are now pressing the government to relax regulation of them!

    It seems incredible that at the very point that they prepare to launch their version of a human rights for construction unions publicity campaign, and apply political, and internal pressure to the government, they are out engaging in this destructive and lawless behaviour.

    These unions need more policing and tougher regulation, but the government is taking this in the opposite direction.

  99. Tom

    I agree completely, lawlessness cannot be tolerated in any shape or form.

  100. Tom, that article you provided from the business spectator is authored by a Ken Phillips, is he the same Ken Phillips who is Director of the Work Reform Unit at the ICA?

    Independent Contractors of Australia

    Independent Contractors of Australia (ICA) (also known as the Independent Contractors Association) is a front group for the Australian labour hire and recruiting industry, and employer groups. It campaigns to strip protections from contractors, often representing those campaigns as the opposite of their true purpose.

    It has close links to right-wing think tank the Institute of Public Affairs, the anti-union HR Nicholls Society, and the powerful IT recruiting industry lobby group ITCRA…

    …Although it purports to represent contractors, it has only “a couple of hundred members” – less than 0.1 percent of Australian contractors – according to testimony by ICA Director Ken Phillips at an Australian senate inquiry.[2]

  101. kitty

    a very interesting find there

  102. Well Kittylitter, I think he is the one and the same.

    But rather than play the man, don’t you think he makes a fair point?

    Do you think there are any observations he’s got wrong?

  103. Well tom you might have mentioned that he is hardly an unbiased observer, that there could be a motivation and also perhaps his observations found exactly what he wanted to be found, and another observer might find something completely different.

  104. “funded by organisations such as BHP, Western Mining and Telstra”

    Then he obviously can’t be trusted, after all these companies only employ ten’s, if not hundred’s, of thousands of people here.

    “A couple of hundred members” – they probably employ a similar number of people.

    Kittylitter, rather than just comment on the credentials of the author of the article, how about you just outline which points are incorrect?

    Or would you prefer to support the type of thuggery that has been occurring at the Westgate Bridge site?

    Oddly, his observations are similar to my own, so I might as well just cut and paste them, rather than providing the link, that way you’d probably have to respond to the issues rather than just question the source.

  105. What complete lawlessness?

    From tom’s second link (my bold):

    About 100 members of the Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union and the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union yesterday flanked the bridge in a demonstration of industrial muscle over the lay-off of about 40 workers who refused to accept John Holland’s terms of employment.

    At the meeting, the parties agreed unanimously to participate in mediation before Victorian County Court judge and former Australian Industrial Relations Commission vice-president Iain Ross.

    John Holland will suspend all engineering activity beginning next week, except for work associated with the erection of the anti-suicide barriers.

    Yesterday’s demonstration was a non-violent show of force from both unions, who, amid heavy police presence, flanked the bridge and shouted “scabs” as four rented vans carrying contract workers moved on to the John Holland site.

  106. Again from tom’s link:

    Yesterday’s demonstration was a non-violent show of force…


  107. Shouting scabs? Diplomacy?

  108. Robert Gottliebsen also reports on comments made by the Victorian Police Commissioner!! –

    “I asked him this question: “How many police have been diverted to the Westgate Bridge inter-union dispute. Are you concerned that one group of unions has hired bikie gangs to intimidate rival union members?”
    In his reply Overland agreed that the police had allocated significant resources to the Westgate dispute and he confirmed that bikie groups had been used by some of the unions and he was examining that. He said that the dispute was now being resolved through negotiations and that no significant amount of police resources was currently required.
    After lunch I challenged him about this statement and he grinned as he admitted that he had been had been joking and that my description of the event — which was really Ken Phillips’ description – was correct.”

    So the police Commissioner seems to think that Ken Phillips is correct, and that bikie gangs are on the picket.

    Recent behaviour has apparently moderated as a result of police presence, but there are various reports of thuggery.

  109. From my extensive experience with major contractors when I worked within the building industry the main cause of cost and time over runs was due to poor design by architects, changes in designs by clients (resulting in entire slabs having to be torn up and repoured due to plumbing being forgotten or relocated) which resulted in massive amounts being charged in variations by whoever was actually building the damn construction ie. John Holland Group, Multiplex, Civil & Civic.

    It had very little to do with union interference. And I’m not talking about small projects. I was involved on Sydney Olympic Park, Governor Macquarie Tower (Sydney), 3 Regional Tax Offices, Highgate Residential Tower Sydney, Chifley Tower Sydney.

    I find it difficult to believe that the cost over runs he talks about were caused by unions. A very small percent at best.

  110. The issue would lead me to question the source. I wonder if John Holland is a member of the ICA?

    Here’s another observer’s take:

    Community and Socialist Alliance supports sacked Westgate Bridge workers

    Construction company John Holland sacked 39 workers from the Westgate Reconstruction Project. The workers were sacked because they refused to accept a deal Holland organised with the industrially weak Australian Workers Union instead of honoring an agreement the workers (all members of the AMWU and CFMEU) had signed with subcontracting firm Civil Pacific Services at the end of last year.

    John Holland wants to cut workers’ pay by on average $10 an hour and wipe out some of the standard industry conditions, including penalty rates. Its basic aim is to get rid of the more militant unions of its sites.To add insult to injury the workers were also told at their interviews with Holland that at this job they would be members of the AWU (with union dues paid for by the company!) – violating their freedom of association.

  111. Walrus – Perhaps you should have a look at some of the projects in Victoria and WA.

  112. Tom of Melbourne, on April 23rd, 2009 at 11:36 am Said:

    Perhaps you are right Tom. NSW has never had the problems of Victoria I admit…………………..I mean I certainly did not shed a tear when Norm Gallagher and the BLF got shafted. Nor did a lot of NSW union members

  113. Tom of Melbourne, on April 23rd, 2009 at 11:26 am Said:

    Robert Gottliebsen also reports on comments made by the Victorian Police Commissioner!!

    At the risk of sounding like tony, could I have a link for your post tom thanks so that I may check it out for myself.

  114. Kittylitter, as I understand it, there was an agreement with an appropriate union – the AWU, who have coverage of this construction work.

    Are they weak? Perhaps check with Bill Shorten, and their new “rising star” federal secretary, Paul Howes. They don’t seem to consider themselves “weak”.

    AWU made an agreement, as they’re entitled to. The other unions wanted coverage, so they undermined this. It is typical of these unions; they never respect an agreement, unless they’ve made it. And even then they don’t respect it.

    Then they engage in weeks/months of thuggery, moderating only when there is a police presence. They employ bikies, former gaoled and disgraced union officials, and various other ratbags to maintain picket control.

    The government has the Wilcox report on the building and construction industry. The report is already insipid, but the unions are pressuring for even more watering down of the recommendations.

  115. Could the problem possibly be militant anti-union, WorkChoices style bargaining by the John Holland Group – take it or you’re fired?

    The employer goes behind the back of the employees who had already signed agreements and dummies up another one with a weak union who doesn’t represent these employees in order to exclude stronger unions.

    Apparently refusing to honour pre-existing agreements, cutting wages and violating legal freedoms of association is quite principled employer behaviour in your world tom and the unions and employees should just accept whatever?

  116. and the link?

  117. Tom

    While I disagree with thug activity.How about all of the police resources used over the years and especially by the Howard Government in busting the waterfront. How many were used in the confrontation initiated not by workers, but by the Howard Government in collusion with Patrick at the time. Police resources in their hundreds used in Maleny against the protesters in the town protesting at the building of the Woolworths. Etc Etc

  118. Shane, if you had any idea of the corruption, theft, and general conduct of the union down at the waterfront, you’d be dismayed that more force wasn’t used even earlier down there.

  119. James

    So it is ok for the Government to use thuggery and force ?

  120. Actually this is one of those rare occasions where I agree with Tom and James.

    (It must be because I’m a wealth crazed prick).

    The Sydney waterfront was an absolute disgrace in the early 90’s- one of the poorest performing ports in the developed world before Patrick and Howard launched their attack against the union.

    The problem with some unions is that they’re just hellbent on protecting the so called “rights” of “the workers” that they couldn’t care less whether the company that employs them makes a profit or not.

  121. I Am The Walrus, on April 23rd, 2009 at 9:54 am

    No such luck, IATW; but if I were, I’d be tempted to nominate ‘ice’. Personally, I blame the unions and air-borne coral polyps for the affront to sensible discussion on the matters that were, before the bandits from the subcontinent descended en mass from their mountain lairs to deliver hot curry and pick at scabs.

  122. reb

    Many, many ,many more businesses fail as a result of poor maganement than as a result of union action.

    I agree the waterfront was a mess, however while it seems you abhore the use of thuggery by the union, you condone it by the Government. I don’t condone it by any party.

  123. The fact is that everyone knows that building and construction unions ignore the law whenever they want, if it helps achieve their power/industrial objectives.

    I think even Kittylittter understands this, it is just that she and other similar militant/hard left types consider this to be reasonable and understandable.

    At the Westgate bridge dispute there are reports of vehicles being run off the road, families of employees being threatened, bikies helping out.

    This is what we have to look forward to, under the “new and improved” industrial legislation.

  124. Tom

    I consider my self a middle road person. I tend to be cynical about reporting from both sides because somewhere in the middle is the truth.

    I never worked on the waterfront and unless I did I am simply reading third party reporting by both sides. One by the union and their version and the other by Big Business and the Government of the day and their version.

  125. The fact is that everyone knows that building and construction unions ignore the law whenever they want, if it helps achieve their power/industrial objectives.

    Gosh, I didn’t know that. Now I do.

  126. Tony: Decided not to get on Discorsi, and will not do so in the short term, and perhaps the long term. Nevertheless, thanks for the alert.
    Sydney should be good this weekend.

  127. Miglo – “Gosh, I didn’t know that. Now I do.”

    Add it to the list of the all the useful things you’ve learned from me during the past couple of days.

  128. Shane, where there is crime and corruption, and the defence of those practices is conducted with thuggery and force, then, yes, I do approve of force being used to break it.

  129. Shane, where there is crime and corruption, and the defence of those practices is conducted with thuggery and force, then, yes, I do approve of force being used to break it.

    James of North Melbourne, on April 23rd, 2009 at 1:40 pm Said:


    That sounds like something Bin Laden would say………..!

  130. G’day Tom

    Those thugs in the uniouns MUST be stopped I agree!

    Along with the thugs running business and destroying society!

    James Hardie springs to mind:


    Those in glass houses?

  131. Add it to the list of the all the useful things you’ve learned from me during the past couple of days.

    Tom, what I learned from you was that I am a petrol-headed, left wing, capitalistic perverted hoon who supports a team of criminals.

    So I sought a second opinion.

    It seems as though you were right.

  132. James

    Comment accpeted.

    I just hope that you understand that the media is also run by big corporations and therefore most of the reporting is out to serve their own agenda, namely business.

    I can assure you there is far more unscrupulous skirting and flouting of the law by major corporations behind hidden doors. They resort to a different type of thuggery by sackings causing mental anguish and hardship together with thinly veiled threats to achieve their aims.

  133. Oftenbark,

    Glad to hear it.

    Costa In The Glen was a very impressive winner yesterday. Worth following in any suitable race.

  134. While the Westgate dispute is the current example of the types of tactics we can expect to see plenty of in the future, the waterfront dispute is an interesting case study.

    The waterfront needed significant reform for decades.

    This was known to the Keating government, they spent tens of millions of taxpayer money on reform. This included funding redundancies, paying out rorts, outplacement, education, recruitment of new employees.

    But it would not change. The workers, supported by the union, always returned to the trough. The union resisted change, used their ALP political affiliation to undermine the good reform intentions of the Keating government.

    Some members of that government got reform fatigue towards the end, and pretty well gave up taking on the various narrow (but politically effective) groups. They can be congratulated for helping get the Howard government elected in 1996.

    This provided the conservative government with the excuse for hard reform; the consultative approach was a proven failure over the previous years.

    I think that unions used political affiliation to stymie the attempts of Keating to reform, causing a loss of public confidence, and then allowed the Howard government to adopt an aggressive stance on waterfront reform.

    I wonder whether history will repeat itself. The signs aren’t good.

  135. Miglo – “Tom, what I learned from you was that I am a petrol-headed, left wing, capitalistic perverted hoon who supports a team of criminals.”

    That’s outrageous Miglo, at no stage did I say “perverted”.

  136. Walrus have seen you in ages since you went french on us. Good to see your back 😉

    Unions are good for some bad for others… and
    If they break the law let the law deal with it. unions remind me of Joe Hockey followed by a loud laugh.

    Miglo, lol
    A government phone card should be your next priority

  137. Happy 61st to Mins hubby. For yesterday
    im playing catch up.

  138. Speaking of Joe Hockey.

    Today he declared that Kevin Rudd will never deliver a budget surplus.

    In sharp contrast to Joe Hockey of course, who, during the course of his illustrious career in politics has delivered……. um……..well………….err…………

  139. Shane, I do understand that the media is run by a bunch of corporates with their own agendas. My feeling is that these agendas are not so much pushed politically but are met by gentle manipulation of people such that whilst there is a whole lot of pretty important stuff going on most are distracted by football, reality tv, or the relative size of Jessica Simpson’s thighs. And I also understand that any call to reign such crap in is met by cries of “freedom of speech” and “no censorship”. I mean, look at alcopops. Who really gives a shit? Youths are going to get themselves pissed one way or another, as they always have. If a government were serious about dealing with the health of our young then there would be a halt on the opening of any further KFC’s and McDonalds stores. The reason youngsters are getting violent isn’t alcopops, it’s got to do with more and more people being crowded into smaller spaces. It’s got to do with fewer and fewer playing sport and instead watching it, in bigger and bigger crowds or paying more and more to watch it on tv, if they’re not busy engaging in reality mass slaughter on video games which are allowed as a result of our freedoms from censorship. Granted, the Coalition Government got very good with their media manipulation, but the current government are turning it into an art form.

    My own experience of the waterfront stems from when my father returned to Australia after working in the UK for a couple of years. Pretty well everything of value was robbed from his crate as it lay for weeks waiting to clear customs or quarantine or whatever. Explanation? Oh he was just shit out of luck, happens to everyone.

    And mate, the corruption is till there. You will recall I raised the issue on super funds some weeks or months ago. The unions have been questioned about this and maintain that the reason that they can declare better returns is that they don’t pay commissions. Bullshit, it’s because they don’t declare properly the values of the private unlisted assets. And NO-ONE has the power to hold them to account, and if they try, it’s just union bashing.

    Rant over.

  140. Reb

    But at least Hockey communicated that message in an avuncular manner.

  141. joni..I don’t find old Joe very avuncular these days..more like Shrek gone rabid.

  142. Tom

    I agree but I hope you also agree that while unions use their affiliation with the ALP to achieve aims at times it is no different to Big Business using their donations and pressure to achieve their aims from the Coalition.

  143. James of North Melbourne,

    For someone who paints himself as knowledgeable about the media, I find it incredible that you said recently you hadn’t seen any commentators blaming the recession on Rudd.

    Amazing that you hadn’t caught up with the disingenuous Turdbull, Hokey and Boship referring to this as THE RUDD RECESSION.

    Maybe you’re me and dismiss their dishonest ravings out of hand? Will you still vote for these liars? Of course! Any time. Every time.

  144. Maybe you’re like me

  145. Hi Caney

    Don’t you agree that unions are a bunch of self interested, luddite thugs?

    Don’t you think they just like to fight amongst themselves for coverage, harming our investment reputation on the way, and never creating a job, unless it is a sinecure for themselves as a snout in the trough senator or similar?

  146. I think even Kittylittter understands this, it is just that she and other similar militant/hard left types consider this to be reasonable and understandable.

    Me…hard left? don’t know about that, and when have I ever advocated violence? I do not agree with business subversively colluding with government against the citizens of the country.

    I may have an ideological difference to you, i really have no idea of building & construction unions breaking the law whenever they want. I do know that business is not innocent in the equation, they remove wages and conditions, intimidate and threaten loss of livelihood and even loss of lives by their flouting of industrial and safety laws. I know that employers breach awards and IR laws all the time.

    Tom, not once have I heard you say that business has ever caused any of the problems because of their provocative, hostile and bad faith attitude to IR bargaining – according to you it’s all caused by the unions. Not so. You think that employers have never used thuggery and force? The only difference is, the suits don’t get their own hands dirty, they pay others to do the nasty deeds and claim innocence of it all.

    Business has power and money which allows them to dictate to governments, they also bribe officials, politicians and public servants etc., they just call it ‘donations’ and/or favours for a friend.

    Don’t make out that employers are not activists in IR and not motivated to smash the unions, the only organisations standing in the way of their workchoices and minimum wages utopia. You demonise unions simply for existing.

    Why do you think that business should have unfettered control and power to do whatever they want in this society? You always demonise unions and never find a reason to criticise employer behaviour.

  147. Miglo – “Tom, what I learned from you was that I am a petrol-headed, left wing, capitalistic perverted hoon who supports a team of criminals.”

    That’s outrageous Miglo, at no stage did I say “perverted”.

    I know that Tom, and I didn’t say that you did. I said “what I learned from you was . . .”

    One needs to be pedantic with you. It’s a scene you set. Your rules. I just play by them.

  148. James

    Unio funds do not pay commissions. Now I pay 1% to my fund manager and 1% to my financial planner. So if I am paying 2% more than a union fund it is logical that the union fund will provide a better return to its memebrs.

    Because I choose to sacrifice 2% in fees is my own choosing, but you dont see me screaming union bullshit just because I choose not to be in their fund. When actual proof comes from those union funds and their customers lose I will acknowledge your claim. Until then I think it is your typical anti union rant about anything to do with unions.

    Alcohol and violence is now a part of life, a part which I hate. As far as I am concerned the bloody pubs and clubs should shut at Midnight, but then again I am a wowzer. James we all got pissed when we were young but we had respect for other people and their property. the difference in todays society is that respect for others and the police has been thrown out the window. When a judge rules it is ok to call police “pigs” and tell them to Fu** Off to their faces then society begins to breakdown. A few judges need to have some late night youth parties next to their own stinking homes and then maybe they might realise what people put up with.

    Regarding the media and art forms. I think both sides play to the media. My point was that the media are big businesses and as such their agenda is profit. Their agenda is not reporting the truth. their agenda is to manipulate the truth where they can to achieve their own aim of more profit. If union bashing and reporting allows them to change their own bargaining by reporting only one side of the facts then they will.

    I cannot count the amount of times I have read accusations about persons in the media. Only to find retractions or apologies the following week on page 32 in the bottom left hand corner after the original story was on page 1. I consider that another type of thuggery with the total demolition of character of the person accused. We all know mud sticks.

    Rant Over

  149. Tom of Melbourne

    Sorry, I don’t want to talk about unions today. That’s your obsession, Costello-Hugger.

  150. Caney at 3:11.

    I LOVE IT.

  151. Kittyilitter, on a number of occasions you & I have exchanged some opinions on good work done by various unions.

    I recall that we have exchanged mutual and consistent views on unions representing nurses and teachers for example. I’ve not made any criticism of unions in various sectors; they do well for their members.

    Unions in building and construction are about to launch a campaign intended to put the government under pressure to further dilute the laws that they have to obey. While they are engaged in this campaign, it is useful to remember the bullying tactics and intimidation they use to press their claims.

    This dispute is about coverage, not benefits. I’m willing to bet that the resolution will be that the unions accept the previous rate, as long as they get coverage.

    It is outrageous. And we can expect more of it

    Re employers, they generally do not have principles in industrial relations; they just want the work done. If a union helps that, then they get support. If a union holds up work, they are resisted. Some employer organisations do have a political agenda, I agree. The Rudd government has been fairly effective in dealing with the more non aligned organisations.

    Of course I’m sure we would agree that we should condemn the unions that represent public service chain draggers, such as Miglo. He’s now confessed to all sorts of things, and some seem to be quite unsavoury.

    “Costello-Hugger” – very funny. I love it too.

  152. Walrus have seen you in ages since you went french on us

    aquanut, on April 23rd, 2009 at 2:22 pm Said:



    Aqua……………….Let me set the record straight………….!

    I dont go “french” on anybody……..!

  153. Yoo hoo..reb..the Blog Stats are showing 1 hits (right hand corner). Surely there must be more….

  154. “Costello-Hugger” – very funny. I love it too.

    Now, Tom. I recall a recent convo between you and me where you were going on and on about Rudd being “a coward” . I had all the trouble in the world getting you to admit – finally – that the most well-noted coward of them all in politics, Costello, is in fact – a coward. Can’t tell me you’re not a Costello-hugger. Gosh, you even sing from the same anti-union hymn book (again and again and again …)

    Cowardello would love the work you do here at blogocrats. All these ” disputes” about evil workers’ unions in which you coincidentally manage to find yourself at the centre of.

    Sure you’re not a member of the HR Nicholls Socieity? Cossie helped to form that. They’d love your work here too.

  155. Yes, I just noticed that too Min.

    I think it’s reverted to being a scoreboard for the discourse between Miglo and Tom.

    One nil to Miglo by the looks of things.

  156. Caney, last I saw, Hockey, Bishop, and Turnbull were politicians, not commentators. I have never had much time or regard for Turnbull, as for Hockey and Bishop, I haven’t seen enough to judge to be honest, but I can assure you that I will judge them on their performance and not their eyes or girth. Oh, and I never claimed any particular expertise in media either.

  157. James,

    Why not judge them from their lies?

  158. Reb, if Tom was a bowler I would score a string of centuries.

  159. i reckon we will reach 10 hits tomorrow

  160. Aqua – very funny.

    See what happens when John McPh takes a rest.

  161. Reb..was thinking that there might have been so many hits that the counter might have defaulted back to zero.

  162. Caney, can you link me to where they have lied. Also could you link me to where they have described this recession as the fault of Kevin Rudd? Finally could you link me to, or show me, where you have acted with such courage as to give you the right to describe a parliamentarian who has put himself before the public, before an at times hostile media, before voters in his electorate, a coward? And when you link me to the lies, could you possibly provide some sort of comparison with the falsehoods of one K Rudd when describing his family life growing up, his dealings with one B Burke, his claims of fiscal conservatism, his dalliances with strippers, his treatment of junior staff, need I go on?

  163. James

    They call this a RUDD RECESSION.

    Months ago, before the economy even WENT into recession they were talking about the RISK OF A RUDD RECESSION.

    Tell us, James of North Melbourne, Liberal Party supporter, do you think this Great Global Recession is the RUDD RECESSION?

    Try to answer that honestly if possible please.

  164. James

    I really enjoy you being oneeyed when it comes to politics. Being middle of the road myself it gives me occasions to agree and occasions to disagree.

  165. Damn

    One of my super portfolio shares went into administration today.

    Oh well just another extra year until retirement.

    Hope you will all be here in 2059 because thats when I can afford to retire 🙂

  166. “can you link me to where they have lied….”

    With pleasure:

    JOE HOCKEY: “Interest rates will always be lower under the Coalition.”

    JOE HOCKEY: “The Coalition has always said and we’ll continue to back it up, that we will have interest rates lower than the Labor Party.”

  167. shaneinqld, on April 23rd, 2009 at 4:25 pm Said:


    Let me guess………………Timbercorp ?

  168. I’ve done a search concerning this “Rudd Recession” and this is all I could find.


    I believe it was confected by the media but couldn’t be bothered to trace the original link.

  169. LOL how did you guess Walrus

  170. I can tell you this, Caney, despite you having failed to address one of my points, probably because of your inherent lack of courage. The first time I heard the phrase “Rudd Recession” was in an article by ex LABOR parliamentarian John Black in early December 2008. As to whether I think it is the “Rudd Recession”, well it depends on what you are talking about. Of course Kevin Rudd did not cause this recession, as I have said before. Whether or not the recession can be named after Kevin Rudd comes down to whether his policies make it worse and to what extent. I believe that they have and that they will, though not to an extent sufficient to give K Rudd naming rights. But then again, I’m not here to play politics and if I were, and there were political points to be scored, then I guess I would have no problem with describing this as the “Rudd Recession”, it kind of rolls off the tongue. Oh, and right now, I am far from a Liberal Party supporter.

  171. Geezuz, shane, what in deity’s name were you doing in Timbercorp?

  172. Shane re…Hope you will all be here in 2059 because thats when I can afford to retire..

    By then I’ll be 108 years old. Retirement isn’t even remotely on the horizon for hubby and self.

  173. James

    Speculating thats what.

  174. MIn

    I will be 96 I have had to add a year onto 95 because of Timbercorp.

  175. New leadership…where?

    Fresh ideas…from a multitude of a thousand?

    Plan for the future…waiting!

  176. D’oh!

    Another one….

    JOE HOCKEY: Otherwise I’d be in Opposition. I’m not interested in that buddy, I can tell you.”

  177. shaneinqld, on April 23rd, 2009 at 4:28 pm Said:

    I keep a very close eye on the markets each day.

    Besides, they had too much debt up for immediate refinancing.

    There’s a few more similars yet to come.

  178. James of North Melbourne,

    So you concede that he didn’t cause the global recession , but you won’t reject the notion of naming it after him.

    Curious set of ethics if you ask me. Naming the biggest global downturn in three-quarters of a century after the Prime Minister of Australia.

    On Turdball, Hokey and Bishop, and any other Lieberals or Liberal sympathisers roaring about the RISK OF A RUDD RECESSION …

    … It seems that any lie, no matter how audacious, any outrageous injustice – and blaming the world’s recession on one man IS an outrageous injustice – is acceptable to the ethically-retarded Liberals if they think there’s a chance of political value in it.

    and they don’t only TELL lies. They love being lied TO. Their greatest living hero is a character that even Liberals call THE LYING RODENT.

    They worship him almost like a god, and in a para-religious nature, it seems they try to emulate his branding character trait.

    “RUDD RECESSION”: it’s alright, folks, it rolls off the tongue.

  179. shaneinqld,

    Could I interest you in some Bris Connect shares as well ?


    My sympathy in your hour of loss

  180. Shane, call it one-eyed if you will, but this PM of ours is held to absolutely stuff all scrutiny, and I don’t get it. He has spent the entire budget and more and gets away with saying “well it would have been worse if I hadn’t” or “at least I tried”. I mean FFS it’s not primary school football!! As to the refugees, my own view is that we should accept the lot providing they’re not crooks and settle them properly with a fighting chance of making a go of life here. But don’t effing deny that your policies haven’t changed the pattern when it’s patently obvious that they have. What used to be whole families are now just menfolk. That’s because they can get their women later, it’s not just coincidence. So have the balls to stand up to the electorate and say “We have a duty to accept these poor buggers and accept them we will. And we will settle them properly.” But they won’t say that because they know that the electorate, by and large, won’t like it. But Costello’s the coward.

  181. Walrus

    Yes it was the inability to refinance immediate debt that has crucified them. But also years of drought has decimated their agri business as well.

    I was not in them in a big way which is a relief.

  182. Caney, if you wish to debate, please try to at least make some sense. That last post of yours makes it look as though you’re drunk.

  183. Walrus

    Offering me bris connection shares is your way of sympathy, why you @#$%^&*

  184. Shane, tip for the future, those type of “tax driven” investments suit only a very small portion of investors. I have yet to have a client to whom that company was suited. Drought or no drought, GFC or no GFC.

  185. Spot on James re you comment: But don’t effing deny that your policies haven’t changed the pattern when it’s patently obvious that they have. What used to be whole families are now just menfolk. That’s because they can get their women later, it’s not just coincidence.

    We now no longer have women and children risking their lives at sea because of the current government’s changes to TPVs.

  186. James of North Melbourne,

    Let’s ask the other posters if they can understand it, shall we?

  187. Oh and Caney, the way you have twisted my words in your last post, to the extent that I can understand it, places you on very shaky ground when it comes to questions of honesty and ethics.

  188. So, Min, which is it? Is it a masterstroke by K Rudd which saves the lives of women and children (which must make him a liar and a coward) or is it just a coincidence brought on by global factors?

  189. James of North Melbourne,

    You only claim to have trouble “understanding” my post because it’s not full of lies. You Liberals are all at sea unless someone is bullshitting you every minute.

    “Drunk” says the Liberal. Diversion.

  190. This PM has been in office for less than 2 years and has handed down 1 budget. The previous government was in office for 12 years. Scrutiny will come soon enough for those screaming about it. I think people like myself are prepared to wait and see what happens instead of shouting from the rafters at every opportunity to decry a government who has not even been in office for 1/6 of the previous government.

    Regarding refugees I agree with you. But James things are completely different all over the world than they were in 2007. 81,000 Sri Lankans alone are fleeing. I am sure that the surge in refugees would be happening even if the previous government was in power. FFS the refugees wouldn’t care if they were going to be processed on one of our islands or in Oz itself, they just want to get away from where they currently are they are desperate. Short of blowing them out of the water they would be heading here no matter what rules we have.

    I never called Costello a coward, I simply did not like his workchoices plan and his behind the scenes plan to take it even further than they did by abolishing all of the protections for workers. Costello to me was just too far to the right. A pity he and his brother wern’t one person, then we would have a middle of the road great.

  191. Does anyone want to hazard a guess the deficit figure for this fiscal year???

    I reckon just under $50 billion dollars.

  192. James

    My investment in Timbercorp was very small.

  193. It is full of lies, Caney, because there is not one commentator anywhere, nor politician, that is blaming Kevin Rudd for the global recession. There are some who are blaming him for the extent to which it is affecting Australia. You would have to be pretty stupid not to get the difference. So it is you, Caney, who is the liar. Further, you have questioned my ethics whilst deliberately misrepresenting what I have written and what various politicians have said. The liar, Caney, is you.

  194. scaper

    Probably 50 billion but I can guarantee it wont be as bad as the US or New Zealands.

  195. James..I don’t understand your either/or argument. Rudd has never said that changes to TPVs would result in women and children not boarding the boats and yet this is the observation from our naval personnel. The evidence being that since the changes which allow verified and certified Refugees to apply for family members to join them that most arrivals are males, teenagers through to middle aged men.

  196. Shane, I’m glad about that.

  197. I heard this morning that New Zealand has now borrowed up to 93% of GDP.

    Now what has been the major difference between NZ and OZ for the last 12 years. Thats right they de regulated their industrial market around 12 years ago under an even extreme version of work choices.

  198. So, Min, Rudd’s denials that his policies have affected the numbers of arrivals by boat are indeed false? He has lied.

  199. James

    Me too mate, otherwise there would be blood on the keyboard 🙂

  200. James of North Melbourne,

    Calling this the RUDD RECESSION, talking about the RISK OF A RUDD RECESSION even before Australia went INTO recession, is meant to convey just one meaning:

    That Rudd CAUSED it. They have put the bloke’s own name to it; t’s HIS recession; what more can they do to pin it on him?

  201. No Carey that discussion was about the idea Costello was a coward for not challenging.

    I drew on various other examples of political leadership – you seemed to find some of them very inconvenient.

    Nonetheless I think it is hilarious that you still refer to that discussion

    But What about the unions? Thugs aren’t they?

  202. Gotcha now James. What I was talking about was the makeup of the people arriving by boat and not the base stats re numbers. Rudd and the UN and crew are of course right that this is a world-wide trend. I think that it’s common knowledge now so can say that when son’s boat picked up the 2nd boatload, that they said that they were Tamils. Also there are lot earlier arrivals at present due to the early arrival of good weather, ie end of the wet season…just son’s opinion.

  203. ToM

    I don’t think he will ever challenge. His record indicates as much.

  204. Shane, I believe the government could have handled it better but what is done,is done.

    The problems with all governments is we don’t know the real damage until they are elected out.

    Here’s the rub that might make the deficit appear smaller…we don’t know if the stimulus has been paid for by borrowings, reserves or general income tax/GST receipts which after some tinkering could make a lot of difference but would have to made up in late winter possibly by tax returns, state allocations and the such.

    The next fiscal year might reveal more detail and I suspect an election possibly in March next year will be in order.

    I’ve got a $900 cheque sitting on my table but I’m loathe to bank it.

  205. I forgot to add that these stimuli like pink batts, shovel ready infrastructure and schools have not being commenced or funds released from what I can detect so that clouds the picture even more.

  206. sharp contrast to Joe Hockey of course, who, during the course of his illustrious career in politics has delivered……. um……..well………….err…………

    Month after month of personal spiel + taxpayer-funded propaganda onslaught for SerfChoices. Innumerable interviews in whihc he bashes workers’ unions. Enormous loads of spite and bile spat at his erstwhile friend, Mr Rudd. Lies about this being the RUDD RECESSION.

  207. scaper

    I know your opinion of the governments stimulus packages, however the results ( good or bad) will take time.

    I agree we never truly know the damage until they are gone, but that goes for all aspects of a government not just fiscal policy.

    I prefer a government to run their full term no matter who they are. Taking advantage of a situation at a certain time should be outlawed in my opinion.

    Bank the cheque and treat it as a $20 a week tax cut for 12 months.

  208. # They call Costello yellow (quite rightly) #

    (Sung to the tune of Mellow Yellow – as per last weeks mashup on QANDA)

  209. scaper

    I have been hearing advertising on the radio here on the sunshine coast for people to call the insulation guys regarding the government insulation stimulus package so maybe it is starting.

  210. Oh boy…at least they share the burden of bad tidings around.


  211. LOL Joni

    But you know, we shouldn’t call Costello a coward (even though a former leader of the Liberal Party says he has no balls). Right-wingers like Tom of Melbourne and James of North Melbourne won’t like it.

  212. Scaps..have received ours into the bank account. We are going to stimulate the economy by purchasing a bathroom cabinet. Yay..am looking forward to finally offloading the last of the cardboard boxes from the bedroom floor.

  213. (joni falls to floor and has tantrum)


    Also, I had lunch yesterday with some friends – one of which who pointed out that she did not get money either. When another said “well, you’re just being greedy” it was pointed out that you cannot be greedy when you go 3/5ths of nothing.

    I would have thought that giving the stimulus money to singles – especially inner-city latte-drinking chardonnay-quaffing frivolous-spending singles – would have been a better way to ensure that the money was spent and not saved.

    Who gets it instead – sensible people who spend it on sensible things. Yes – I am looking in your direction Min. 😉

  214. Joni..I believe it’s done alphabetically, although the fact that scaper has his means not much hope for you.

    If it’s any consolation youngest Ezza didn’t qualify either as although on an extremely low wage, it’s a scholarship and therefore non-taxable.

    Of course it’s ruddy sensible! I’ve had to spend the last umpteen months with all of my makeup in a cardboard box in the bedroom!

  215. Yeh…………………….I

    Why doesnt a chartered accountant with his own house, a large share portfolio, a wife earning plenty and off to China next month, with a large wine cellar to keep stocked, 2 furry Maltese razor blades to feed, plus 3 cats, and a pond of goldfish……………….why…………………why……………why do I get nothing either.

  216. hehe Min…

  217. Then again, it is entirely appropriate that Tasmanian Wealth Crazed Pricks get nothing… even those who used to live in a rented flat!

  218. Hehe back again joni. Re ‘all my makeup’..it’s only a very small cardboard box.

  219. Oh come on Min… you do not need the makeup.

  220. Joni..I believe it’s done alphabetically

    Min, on April 23rd, 2009 at 5:53 pm Said:

    It’s distributed randomly according to postcodes

  221. Damn IATW – if was numerically then I would have been near the front (2009).

  222. Thank you Walrus..being an A we thought that we had received our prezzie early.

    Anyway..am chuffed to be able to buy a bathroom cabinet, and towel rails.

    And am not answering joni re needing makeup.

  223. Caney – “I don’t think he will ever challenge. His record indicates as much.”

    I agree, though if he ever does become Liberal leader, he will have been just as brave as non challenging Hawke, Hayden, Whitlam etc.

    And all those others that never won the leadership through a challenge.

    (though I’m not looking for a rerun of the previous exchange with you)

    By the way, don’t you think that irresponsible unions (usually ALP affiliated) are undermining confidence in investment at the very point when we can least afford it?

  224. Interesting one…….go to news.com.au and look at the headlines down the page. You will see a headline about a bloke in court over “upskirt” pics and then just below you’ll see a story on drugs in Bali. Notice anything interesting?

  225. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm!

    A rather well shaped female derierre !

  226. …and of course SFR’s get nowt. Sometimes feels like the scrap heap…

    …still I suspect there may be an element of – “…well you chose to retire early, wear it…”

    …but I have a plan…

    TOM, I guess you didn’t read my link re: James Hardie – or you did and just ignored it as too hard to defend…

    TB Queensland, on April 23rd, 2009 at 2:00 pm

  227. No TB, James Hardie directors are getting exactly what they deserve.

    No employer should ever breach this fundamental trust of the people that work with them.

    It is often a trite statement these days, but ensuring the safety of employees is the most important duty.

  228. scaper…, on April 23rd, 2009 at 5:18 pm Said

    I’ve got a $900 cheque sitting on my table but I’m loathe to bank it.

    Cheque Really? Most others who run a business (and are eligible) won’t get a cheque but will find it in their bank account. Just like their tax return.

    You received a cheque but there’s no mention of the wife’s bonus? Very very strange.

    But it says heaps about the size of your business (if true). LOL


  229. Does anyone know what happened to Nasking? Or did I miss something? (You could always find someone holding down the fort during night shift when he was around.)

  230. Tom of Melbourne, on April 23rd, 2009 at 3:22 pm Said:

    .. unions representing nurses and teachers for example. I’ve not made any criticism of unions in various sectors; they do well for their members.

    Maybe and maybe not. The two groups to which you refer (and they’re not alone) have aspirational claims to be ‘professional’ and all that implies re ‘respectability’, ‘self-sacrifice’. and the like.

    Yet they (their Unions) can surely be criticised because we see a decline in academic entrance levels, financial rewards, working conditions, public image (maybe) and the like. One can easily claimtheir Unions have failed them due to their lack of militancy.

    On the other hand we have the AMA who operate at a completely brutal level and have outstanding success.

    Don’t claim to have any definitive answers but I am sure that simplistic answers are just that. And therefore not helpful.

  231. Thanks to the paper losses we make on our investment proprties I snuck in with a $600 bonus while Jedda scored the big one with $900.

    It has been spent on Australian made products.

  232. I sent an email to a friend about Murdoch’s comments re wanting internet users to pay for their viewing. He sent this reply.

    This has been covered in Crikey.com.au lately – apparently Murdoch’s looking at delivering news content on the web instead of through the sorts of daily newspapers we have now. You’ll be able to get something like MX (the free paper they provide to Sydney and Melbourne commuters) which will have bits and pieces, but all the substantive journalism will be online. I think the New York Times has been working towards such a model for a while now, testing out online subscriptions and the like. Interesting times ahead.

    Interesting indeed.

  233. Tony, on April 23rd, 2009 at 8:18 pm

    Good to see you back. BTW did you ever read the link you provided earlier in the day? No not the headline, or the first few lines penned by the journalist. Try the last few paragraphs, where the journalist covers his arse re the press council. (Hint: They do it all the time. Balance at the death where it doesn’t count as you demonstrate constantly in spades).

    Paul Norton over at LP has some links you might like to consider.

    But of course you can AGAIN call me a troll just like scaper did in the past before he ‘lamasted’ out of here or you can actually argue a point.


  234. Pathetic, as usual!

  235. N5,

    What a coincidence. I’ve just been over to that thread at LP enquiring as to their knowledge of the book they’re so keen to criticise.

  236. scaper…, on April 23rd, 2009 at 8:41 pm Said:

    Pathetic, as usual!

    What? Only one exclamation mark? When you are at your ‘best’ scaper you provide a string. Like !!!!!!!!

    As always you fail to address the ‘facts’ – either to confirm or disprove. Should serve you well in your next life as a ‘politician’. But must move on to a more serious discussion.

    TB Queensland, on April 23rd, 2009 at 6:43 pm Said:

    and of course SFR’s get nowt.

    Not true. They get an income that’s not taxable. In itself that’s ‘bad’ but it’s also a basis of a much bigger ‘rort’ and trust me that ‘loop hole’ is alive and well via family trusts.

    Imagine how much tax can be saved by a high earning individual including ‘tax free’ SFRs in a family trust.

    On the other hand, you might argue that all ‘retirees’ should get a penion and ALL their income should be taxable. Tis not simple.

  237. Tony, on April 23rd, 2009 at 8:47 pm Said:

    What a coincidence. I’ve just been over to that thread at LP enquiring as to their knowledge of the book they’re so keen to criticise

    Good to see. But I suspect that Pilmer, a non-activist in the research field. is unlikely to break new scientific ground. To be crude – lots of farts but no turds – because all he has are ‘musings’ – just like you and me.

    For my part. I’ll leave climate science to the climate scientists in much the same way as I leave medical diagnosis to the medical specialists. Second or third opinions. You betcha. But such opinions always taken from the specialists. Not those who profit from false diagnosis as Pilmer does. Read something on Kel Lovell who does a brilliant spoof.

  238. I’ll wait till I receive my copy, and give you an informed critique.

  239. Plimer was my Geology professor at Newcastle University in the late 80’s.

  240. Nature 5, on April 23rd, 2009 at 9:00 pm

    What a load of burbling nonsense!

    Super 15% going in, 15% on earnings (not much at the moment) and you want more?

    …what ignorant BS – BTW its MY money I draw and live on, earnt and saved over a lifetime – and all invested as a small business owner – no rorts for us…

    …and we don’t all have Family Trusts (not that easy to set up) – a typical PS pen pushing response that ABBA would have made…

    Night all!

  241. I’ll wait till I receive my copy, and give you an informed critique.

    give you an informed critique.

    Fantastic! And that informed critique will be based on ‘spelling’, ‘punctuation’, ‘sentence construction’, ‘type setting’, ‘logic’ or what? You know ‘non-scientific’ areas where I, for example, may have something to offer or are you suggesting that you are a practitioner in the scientific field and your informed critique will actually be an informed one?

    Or perhaps you could again declare me a troll and join scaper in his endeavour to .. who knows?>

  242. N5

    *restrains self from saying Troll 5*

    When I actually read the book, my critique will be informed by the book. (There are plenty of armchair detectives at LP who haven’t even examined the evidence.)

  243. joni, on April 23rd, 2009 at 9:32 pm Said

    Plimer was my Geology professor at Newcastle University in the late 80’s

    Well clearly that will make both you and he very well qulaified to comment on ‘climate change’.

    And because I drove through Newcastle one or twice or maybe even thrice. I may be even better qualified.

  244. Try ‘qualified’

  245. Tony, on April 23rd, 2009 at 9:49 pm Said:

    my critique will be informed by the book.

    Tony, actually it won’t. (Tis the point I have been trying to address for some time). Like anyone else, you and I, for example. will bring a whole set of theoretical perspectives to bear on the data as it’s presented.

    To those ‘facts’ we will give ‘meaning’. To put it simply, the same set of facts will be given a whole variety of meanings by a whole variety of people which can only be explained by reference to the theoretical constructs that are bought to bear.

    For me. I can’t understand the scientific theories that ‘explain’ what is happening re climate change. Thus I have little choice other than to rely I what i consider the best scientific evidence.

  246. N5,

    Let me put it this way: I will read Plimer’s book just as soon as it arrives in my letterbox; I will then have something on which to base my opinion of the book.

  247. PJ O’Rourke on his haemorrhoid cancer – “Isn’t that a rockband?”

  248. Oh indeed – I have met him so I am now a Climate Change expert!

  249. Yes Joni,

    The Malignant Haemorhroids (and The Hot Ass Singers?)

    (I think Julie Bishop is trying just a bit too hard to be PJ’s ‘friend’.)

  250. will then have something on which to base my opinion of the book.

    Indeed! Pilmer will present some ‘data’ or ‘facts’ or whatever. And that ‘data’, ‘facts’ or whatever won’t give ‘meaning’ to the readers because if it was ‘meaning’ that was being transmitted by the facts, then the result would be roughly the same. Both you and I know that’s unlikely to be the case’

    Put simply. Pilmer will present certain ‘facts’ (many of which will be indisputable), but the real debate will come as to what meaning should be given to those facts. The facts won’t ‘speak for themselves’. Meaning won’t be emitted.

    Meaning will be attributed.

  251. Joni,

    That mash-up was very funny.

  252. Tony

    I agree – we pissed ourselves with Theresa …. these guys are very clever.

    And I must admit that everything that PJ said was sensible, especially on immigration.

  253. N5,

    OK, please wait till I’ve read the book before I discuss that further (who knows, I may hate it) before we discuss it further. As for climate-change theory, any time you like.

  254. Oops, I think I double repeated myself.

  255. Pity I’ve missed the “lamaste” this evening.

    Nature 5, I suspect that there are a range of complicated factors that hold back appropriate remuneration for the groups I’ve mentioned. Demographics, proportion of males in these occupations are factors that spring to mind, that are likely to be more relevant than the level of militancy.

    External political factors such as the orientation of governments to manage to a budgeted wage outcome (rather than setting remuneration to the level required to maintain/improve the quality of new entrants) are also relevant.

    My point was simply to indicate that unions operate in a range of environments, and their performance is variable.

    The one thing that doesn’t vary though is the commitment of the building and construction unions to maximise every rort, and fight among themselves for coverage and political positioning.

  256. Wow Tom…. let’s change a little part of your statement and see how is parses?

    The one thing that doesn’t vary though is the commitment of the business unions to maximise every rort, and fight among themselves for coverage and political positioning.

  257. Yet they (their Unions) can surely be criticised because we see a decline in academic entrance levels, financial rewards, working conditions, public image (maybe) and the like. One can easily claim their Unions have failed them due to their lack of militancy.

    I agree with you there N5, give me a militant union who will fight tooth and nail for their membership any day. I pay my dues and I expect them to represent me and my colleagues to their fullest.

    My criticism of the QNU for example is that the deals seem to be done with the government behind closed doors and then ‘spun’ to the membership later. Things are just too civil, sweet and cosy IMO and they tend to come across as a union who submits to the demands of Qld Health.

    The hospital payroll/HR teams seem to interpret the award anyway they like, always in their favour, and IMO, far too much has been bargained away with over the years in regard to penalties, wages and conditions – especially as you couldn’t get more productive than most public hospital nursing staff in this time of world wide shortages.

    Now the hospitals plan to employ more EN’s (the excuse is the worldwide shortage) and expect wards to come up with a ‘team’ nurse approach rather than the usual one nurse responsible for her own pt. load (RN’s supervise, direct and are held responsible for the work of EN’s). Obviously pt. safety is secondary to wards running on mostly new grads and EN’s, what a way to stress out your experienced staff and have them reduce their hours further or continue to leave the industry in droves!

  258. Hands up all those who’ve been to visit the LP AND Antarctica (didn’t think so…). Oh, I’m also available to discuss the electric universe theory, its relationship to stochastics in semi-open systems, and inductive capacitance for grainy plasmas colliding with dusty plasmas, whenever anyone wants. 😉

  259. N5@7:58pm

    It’s not nice to unravel Walter Mitty’s shallow fantasies in public.

    Pathetic is what Walter says when he’s run out of confused lamastes.

    Telling a bit of a porky to articulate his disdain for the government (who, if they had any sense of pity would be spending the entire package on desertworldTM right now) is nostalgic & dense.

  260. I just hope that you understand that the media is also run by big corporations and therefore most of the reporting is out to serve their own agenda, namely business.

    Just browsing the front page of the online Australian, seems more than a ‘gentle manipulation’ of the reader re climate change sceptism.


    *Sea ice spread linked to ozone layer
    *Greg Roberts SEA ice around Antarctica has been increasing at a rate of 100,000sq km a decade since the 1970s, according to a landmark study.
    * Climate sceptics ready to storm heaven
    * People not to blame for climate change

    More Climate


    *Climate change science isn’t settled
    *Jan Veizer THE widely accepted consensus that man is causing global warming is wrong.
    * Michael Costa: Some promises must be broken
    * Bruce Chapman: Vague fancies and chaos dominate 2020

    More Opinion

  261. I see that I’ve been called a liar by the usual suspect and his pet poodle over a stimulus cheque.

    There is a legitimate reason why I received a cheque opposed to being deposited in the account of my business, which obviously displays the lack of knowledge in these matters by the person who claims to be an expert in all but really falls short every time to a point of self embarrassment, but that is my business!

    Then I’m expected to reveal detail concerning my wife’s payment, one lesson I’ve learnt is not to discuss my family as people of poor character will deride them as has occurred in the past at this site.

    I have scanned and emailed the owners of this blog the cheque as I will not post certain details for all to see, for verification.

  262. scaper

    I too received a cheque, simply because I use an accountant.

  263. Oh, I’m also available to discuss the electric universe theory, ……. and inductive capacitance for grainy plasmas colliding with dusty plasmas, whenever anyone wants. 😉

    Legion, on April 24th, 2009 at 2:13 am Said:

    Sorry………………….my preference is LED Screens to Plasma anyday

  264. N5

    I don’t think you can judge the size of anyone’s business by whether they get a $900 handout or not.

    I could easily “lop off” at least $120 K from someone’s taxable income without too much thought going into it so they can get the $900 hand out.

    Quite straight forward actually and I’d be surprised if scaper’s accountant does not do so already.

  265. People who use an accountant should be receiving a cheque, unless they went online to the ATO and provided their bank details.

    And speaking of Nasking, I recall someone being a bit rude to him a couple of weeks ago about the number of links he had to YouTube in his blogs. Maybe he was offended and is just taking a rest. I know that i wouls have been offended if I were him.

    He deserves better. He’s a good Blogocrat.

  266. I could easily “lop off” at least $120 K from someone’s taxable income without too much thought going into it so they can get the $900 hand out.

    Quite straight forward actually and I’d be surprised if scaper’s accountant does not do so already.

    And would it be perfectly legal, ethical and moral IATW where scaper is paying proper tax and declaring actual income?

  267. Walrus, so everyone agrees that for a business operator to get the cash bonus, they either qualify on income or because they dodge tax.

    If a business operator qualifies on income, the business would have to be regarded as very small.

    I wonder whether the mayor of “desertworldTM” qualifies as a tax dodger?

  268. This wealth crazed prick intends to use a twenty dollar note to snort $880 worth of coke as part of my own self-induced “stimulus” package.

  269. Qand A last night
    mentioned was that most of the public will be recieving cheques.

    Just spend it Scaper, take it as a small grant for the project, if your guilt is still to high just give it to me.

  270. “I wonder whether the mayor of “desertworldTM” qualifies as a tax dodger?”


    Gasp! Surely you’re not suggesting that the Mayor would do the odd landscaping job for cash, and not declare it to the tax office….??

  271. DesertWorld TM

    “Youll never ever know, if you never ever go..”

  272. And would it be perfectly legal, ethical and moral IATW where scaper is paying proper tax and declaring actual income?

    kittylitter, on April 24th, 2009 at 9:20 am Said:

    You bet it would be legal Kitty…………………………..I’m not going to risk a suspension to help someone dodge tax or other obligations……………….although when you look at some of the organisations (listed) that have already gone face down into the dust that does not deter other accountants…………but that’s a personal beef of mine that I’m taking up with the so called “hallowed” ICAA.

  273. Tom of Melbourne, on April 24th, 2009 at 9:21 am Said:

    Tom…………….I’m not quite sure what you mean by that question/statement as the “rebate” is directed towards natural persons and not businesses as such……….besides you and I do not know, nor is it our business, how scaper has his business structured (i.e. sole op, partner with wife, Pty Ltd company, unit trust, discretionary trust with multiple beneficiaries, plus whether there is a self managed super fund and what are the ages of scaper and his wife)

    It all has an impact.

  274. but that’s a personal beef of mine that I’m taking up with the so called “hallowed” ICAA.

    Good on you for that IATW.

    You bet it would be legal Kitty

    But would it be moral, ethical and truthful, and would it still be tax dodging…only by legal means eg salary sacrifice, family trust etc?

  275. Reb, that’s a lots of cans…I’ve tried it but the fizz just comes back out…clears any sinus though.

  276. In fact depending on Mr and Mrs Scaper’s age I’d be possibly able to lop off $220 K come to think of it……..!

  277. Legion,

    Oh, I’m also available to discuss the electric universe theory

    You’ve prompted me to do some quick browsing on the subject. Funnily enough, this site, while discussing false assumptions of modern astronomy, gives a quick lesson in the scientific method. You need only change a couple of words on this page and it would be describing what’s wrong with another commonly accepted ‘science’.

  278. kittylitter, on April 24th, 2009 at 9:36 am Said:

    Oh please Kitty…………….spare me pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

    Do you mean to say that every year when you get your tax assessment let’s say with a refund cheque attached you say to yourself…………………..

    “gee my local public school needs a new Federally funded library so clearly I should send back my refund cheque ………………and Mr Swan I’m going toi send you a personal cheque for $1,000 as clearly I’m not paying enough tax.”

  279. I Am The Walrus, on April 24th, 2009 at 9:06 am

    I duly acknowledge your preference for a light-emitting Di ode but respectfully submit that ‘A candle in the wind’ still involves collision and plasmas.

  280. Do you have an ethical problem with salary sacrifice, Kittylitter?

  281. hehe, you just answered the question…tax dodging it is.

  282. “desertworldTM”

    Thank Toiletboss.

    He’s actually quite sharp for a cfmeu member!

  283. Do you have an ethical problem with salary sacrifice, Kittylitter?

    Actually, I do james, i don’t believe that it is right, morally or ethically, for high earners (who this was set up for) to pretend that they do not make as much money as they really do.

    It is inequitable as it is not available to all workers and the tax pool of the nation is weakened by people who should be paying their fair share. Also, the superannuation that they sacrifice to is propped up by…taxpayers, on a grand scale.

    It is an another example of wealthy people setting up schemes to allow other wealthy people to avoid paying taxes. We’d all be better off if people paid what they should, it’s not as if these people are poor, they just hate to pay their fair share of tax – but they are the first to complain of run down public services and poor quality/ treatment in publicly funded hospitals and schools etc. So what do they do? Insist on private services to be heavily subsidised by the taxpayer! If they paid their proper taxes we’d have great public services in the first place and private industry should be funded privately, not from the taxpayer.

  284. Tony, on April 24th, 2009 at 9:39 am

    Quite possibly, or even probably, and that’s where the popular battleground seems to lie…

    If two different theories predict a given phenomenon equally well, the simpler theory is probably the best one. This principle is called Occam’s Razor.

  285. So Kitty

    You should have no problem then if we did away with income tax and just relied on consumption taxes as that way you’d be able to slug those evil leisure boat owners…………….wicked holiday home owners…………………..and all those wankers driving around in cars worth more than $5,000 a lot more via a 20% GST.

    …………………………………Or would your argument then be……..

    “Oh no……we cant do that……that’s too regressive”

  286. Legion, on April 24th, 2009 at 9:46 am

    Or, to put it another way, I’m not sure how to overcome the problem of induction for either or both of two theories advanced, let alone a 3rd theory not considered at all.

  287. scaper

    A very interesting article indeed.

    It does however reinforce my comments regarding the destruction of forests and the detirmental effect on the planet as mankind continues to destroy trees at a phenominal rate.

  288. Wow, Kittylitter, so I guess we start with ending the situation where health services workers get to make their mortgage repayments pre tax?

  289. Scaper

    Bloody geologists – rocks in their head if you ask me 😉

  290. It does however reinforce my comments regarding the destruction of forests and the detirmental effect on the planet as mankind continues to destroy trees at a phenominal rate.

    shaneinqld, on April 24th, 2009 at 10:24 am Said:

    Or considering your abortive investment in Timbercorp sometimes at a rate not quite fast enough ?????


    Sorry ….just being mischevious

  291. All I noticed about Scaper’s link were repeated references to plasmas and collisions of various kinds, just to stay in role. 😉

  292. Legion…………………….do you ever put your crack cocaine pipe away ?

  293. I Am The Walrus, on April 24th, 2009 at 10:41 am

    Only when I’m not seeding the cloud with cosmic ray flux from within my neato-magneto shield, which is impervious to adult themes, including drug references.

  294. OT but …, I just read this over at abc online and had to say ‘Bullshit’ in some forum .. so you guys cop it (sorry):

    Mr Turnbull agrees that stimulus was required, but has questioned what kind of stimulus.

    “The other key message that Mr Blanchard makes which again validates the point we have been making for many months now is that the best form of stimulus is, consists of spending money on economic infrastructure.”

    BULLSHIT, The Libs have been opposing infrastructure spend and have been saying that the best way to stimulate the economy was through tax relief for business.

    A good opposition will keep the Government honest. I’m not saying the Government is dishonest but this Opposition is utter crap. They spin and obfuscate maore than they did in Government and far more than the current Governemnt. Turnbull’s proposals would cop as much criticism as the the Governments under the IMF report in question. I had some real hope for Turnbull in that he would straighten up the Libs and move them back towards the Centre, alas, he is leading them nowhere and his credibility is up to shit. No wonder so many people are dissatisfied whith his performance.

  295. Walrus

    LOL your mischievous is taken as intended.

    I am a person that can laugh loud and long at myself 🙂

    Yes they should have chopped down those bloody trees they grew and pulped them NOW for Japan 🙂

  296. Dave

    I agree. Currently the Opposition Do, Don’t, Do, Don’t, Do, Don’t.

    Now Hockey is complaining about the FHOGS Grant. But they were the ones that originally introduced it and continued to extend it year by year.

    It was a miracle worker for home ownership and the economy year after year according to the coalition. Now they are in opposition he is decrying that it could be a disaster in waiting for First Home Buyers. What hypocritical bullshit. And I actually like Hockey.

  297. joni, for someone with rocks in his head he sure makes a lot of sense without the religious zeal of Gore, Flannery and co.

    Shane makes a good point concerning trees which seems to have been neglected in all this, same with water.

  298. scaper…. I was just regurgitating an old joke from uni – that’s all, but I do need to read the article carefully.

  299. Some interesting stats from Possum at: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2009/04/22/nelsonvturnbull/

    Not only has Turnbull taken the Coalition into a poorer vote position than Nelson achieved at a comparable time in the leadership of the two, but he’s also taken them backwards from the position he inherited when Nelson was replaced.

  300. shane

    On the FHOG issue, the base amount will stay but I reckon the Government will can the increase on built homes. I have a gut feeling the Gov’t will keep the increase on new homes to help the building industry although the amount may be reduced from the current $21K. No evidence to support this, just a hunch but it is consistent with the calls from the building industry and employment stimulus goals.

    Hockey is a goose. The more and more these clowns carry on the more and more I like Minchin, he may be far(ish) right but at least he’s consistent (and smart enough to keep his mounth shut to avoid looking like an idiot (except on the NBN thing))

  301. Wow, Kittylitter, so I guess we start with ending the situation where health services workers get to make their mortgage repayments pre tax?

    Yes, they should, end it for all, and end negative gearing completely.

    …………………………………Or would your argument then be……..

    “Oh no……we cant do that……that’s too regressive”</i.

    Yes, too unfair and regressive, but you know that.

    Just when debate is interesting, duty calls and I’m off to work, see you all later.

  302. sorry about italics, this should fix

  303. scaper,

    the problem with that article is that it tries to suggest that the cliamtologists and climate models haven’t factored these things into their considerations – the reality is different.

    Yes water vapour is a key greenhouse gas but its levels are pretty much static. Added to this is that water vapour remains in the atmosphere only a very short period wheras CO2 remains much longer and therefore it’s effects are much more pronounced than water vapour is the concentrations continue to increase.

    The geological and ice core record of CO2 increasing after temp increases has also been debated here and countless other places as well. Climate scientists have long understood that increasing CO2 will result in increased GHG emissions through methane releases etc. The difference now is that we are releasing CO2 and CH4 into the atmosphre in quantities and ways above natural levels and we need to predict how this will affect the natural system.

    The other point about the ocean releasing CO2 is crap from what I can tell, Oceans haven’t been giving up CO2, they have been storing it and as they warm (which they have been), they can store more. This is why oceans are becoming more acidic. If the oceans hadn’t bee adsorbing CO2, we would be in a much worse position.

    Veizer (and Plimer) are not adding anything new to this debate.

    As an aside, not even the strongest believer in AGW thinks the science is settled, there is so much that isn’t known, particularly concerning feedbacks that is being actively researched. The models, while useful, are known to be incomplete – they are however our best tool for predicting what might occur as we alter our environment in ways never experienced in the past.

  304. Dave55:

    I had some real hope for Turnbull in that he would straighten up the Libs and move them back towards the Centre

    The fact that they have not moved back towards the Centre tells me they don’t want to go back there. He got the leadership vote by the skin of his teeth, so there would be almost as many resisting his efforts as in favour of. That spells division, leadership instability, and continued right-wing extremism for the Libs.

    I love it!

    (while acknowledging we need a credible opposition, I love to see the Liberal Party pay the price for being a bunch of out-of-touch noobs. Swings & roundabouts – natural justice, if there’s such a thing).

  305. Dave, isn’t the point he is making one that water vapour is not static but is treated as such by the models therefore rendering false outcomes?

  306. Caney,

    I wonder whether any of the small ‘l’s would have the guts to do a Don Chip and break away?

    Not sure I support the liberal ideal of self interest but a different centrist economics party with a socially progressive agenda wouldn’t go astray – it would certainly keep Labor on its toes.

  307. The Australian , 22 April 2009:

    “High-profile Institute of Public Affairs boss John Roskam has pulled out of the race for Kooyong, leaving merchant banker Josh Frydenberg and lawyer John Pesutto to battle it out for the prime Liberal seat.”

    [my emphasis]

    This is the sort of thing I mean when referring to out-of-touch dorks.

  308. Caney:

    “The fact that they have not moved back towards the Centre tells me they don’t want to go back there.”

    I completely agree.

    Talcum was the Liberal party’s opportunity to recreate themselves as a more moderate, compassionate humanitarian party, but they don;t want to have a bar of that.

    Instead, all they can think of is the halcyon days under Howard, when they just had a vile hatred and contempt for everything and everyone that wasn’t a good God-fearing white churchgoing succesful business person.

    And to use one of my favourite Kittylitter’s expressions, they may come across as trying to look like they care about ordinary Australians and jobs etc, if they were ever re-elected you wouldn’t be able to draw breath before they took the opportunity to “sink the velvet slipper” into the rights of ordinary working people.

  309. James

    Water vapour isn’t treated as static – the models all need to work on the albedo effect from cloud formation etc which flows from increased water vapour in the atmosphere. Against a nural background, it is sensible to keep the water vapour levels as being static because there is no reason to suggest they are changing in the natural system independant of the increasing temperature.

    Other than increased water vapour from increased surface temperatures increasing evapotranspiration (a feedback mechanism from temperature incrases caused by the enhanced greehouse effect caused by CO2 and other anthropogenic GHG emissions), I’m not aware of any sensible arguments of why water vapour would be increasing naturally which would cause the observed temperature increases over the last 100 years or so.

  310. Dave,

    I don’t know whether any of them would have the guts. Someone put a similar thought to Jack the Insider at his blog the other day. He made the point that it’s – paraphrasing here – incredibly difficult and a big gamble to start a new party.

    Australians these days aren’t big on joining political parties. This wasn’t always the case. It used to be quite a healthy scene I believe. Numbers are falling away last I heard. Members of the two big parties combined totals only a matter of a few dozen thousand nationwide.Whatever the exact figure, it’s a tiny percentage of the population that get off their bums, pay their money, sign up, attend meetings and fundraisers, hand out how-to-votes.

    The Liberals command about 30% of the primary vote. Splitting that via a breakaway party would almost reduce both (old and new Liberals) to almost minor party status, almost on a par with the Greens. LOL. Love it!

  311. almost … almost … almost D)

  312. James, A couple of references for you on the water vaour thing:



    Also this review of Plimer’s latest book Heaven and Earth is worth looking at – it contains a lot of the rebuttals for issues in the Veizer article:

  313. Dave, I ask these questions not to be a smart arse, but wouldn’t the same feedback mechanisms apply to water vapour as they do to CO2? Increase temp=increased evaporation=increased temp……? And wouldn’t increased solar activity lead to this?

  314. if they were ever re-elected you wouldn’t be able to draw breath before they took the opportunity to “sink the velvet slipper” into the rights of ordinary working people.

    You bet! We deprived them of their plan to enslave the “working class” with SerfChoices; at the earliest possible opportunity they’d put it back with a vengeance. And I mean vengeance.

  315. James,

    Yes, solar activity would lead to this, but there is no evidence that solar activity has increased or has caused these increases. It still doesn’t account for increased acidicification of the oceans which is a problem for our coral reefs and molusks even if temperatures don’t rise!

    This page by page debumking of Plimer’s book might be worth looking at:

  316. Dave

    Joe Hockey also forgets that when they approved the FHOGS it was being abused by the wealthy to purchase homes worth millions of dollars for their new born children and any children under the age of 18 by way of family trusts. If it was provided like it should have been in the first place then there would still be hundreds of millions of dollars to assist true first home buyers.

    On FHOGS I think the FHOGS for an existing home should be completely abolished. If you want to buy an existing home , then save.

    ‘The FHOGS on new homes shoould stay at $21,000 as this provides for a 5% deposit for newly contrsucted homes and so allows those who cannot save while paying rent an opportunity to own their own home.

    While the FHOGS may have initally inflated prices it has been going for years now and that effect has been wearing off.

    Doing the above I believe has the following positive consequences.

    1) Will increase home ownership
    2) Will free up rental properties and reduce the number of those requiring rent, thereby reducing rental costs.
    3) Keep tradies and those pushed to becoming self employed contractors employed.
    4) at $21,000 the maximum purchase price is $400,000 so this would keep homes competitive within this price range a builders try to provide as much as possible to woo first home buyers to their products.
    5) Allow the higher end of the property market to fall and rise with economic cycles without any effect by the FHOGS

  317. Would not the same factors, whatever they were, that caused the temperature increases prior to the alleged AGW effect cause a similar feedback cycle in water vapour?

  318. James,

    Link for you on the sunspot activity correlation with increased temps – looks good for the first 70 odd years of the century but falls to buts in the last 25 years or so!


  319. shane

    Makes sense to me – that’s why I have a hunch that aspect of it will stay.

  320. Some of these Liberals would rather the planet’s environment be consumed by ever-mounting toxic black fumes than acknowledge that The Economy needs to have its act cleaned up. All hail the golden calf of The Economy.

  321. Dave, I have not looked into the link I posted in full detail but on the face of it there is some plausible explainations.

    From what I’ve read and watched on the Discovery channel there seems to be an increase in volcanic activity under the oceans.

    Two such examples being the Gakkel Range under the Arctic Circle and the increased activity off the Namibian Coast.

    I believe it would be remiss to consider the science is settled on this issue as claimed by the proponents and our political masters.

  322. Caney..I dread to think what WorkChoices would now look like should the Libs have won the last election. The financial crisis would have been the exact excuse needed to ensure that worker’s wages and conditions were reduced to mush.

  323. Dave, ok, but I just don’t understand the language in that stuff and it requires too much prior knowledge. I’m talking about the maths of the thing.

    We know that temp increases predated CO2 increases by some 800 years. We know that much of the CO2 increases are naturally occuring as a result of said temp increases and that even accepting AGW theory, the human contribution to all of this is minor by comparison with those naturally occuring increases in CO2, given the cause and effect thing. Now surely that cause and effect thing applies equally to water vapour and should therefore be taken into account when modelling these things?

  324. James,

    From what I can gather from the literatures, there are a whole host of reasons why temperature changes occured in the past and some have been put down to solar activity however the general consensus appears to be that the sun is in a much more stable state and is producing less radiation (energy) than it did earlier in it’s life. (no link unfort). Other things that caused massive changes include volcanic eruptions, meteor impacts, continental drift affecting ocean circulation, massive failures of ice dams causing changes in ocean salt balances which affected isoclines and ocean circulation patterns etc.

    The general consensus is that CO2 is both a forcing agent and a feedback agent and what we are seeing this time round is it initially acting as a forcing agent – the feedback mechanisms are yet to kick in and that is why the scientists want us to take action before they do because the cionsequences could be dramatic if methane is released from the tundra.

  325. scaper…

    The only people saying the science is settled are the skeptics – it is a straw man argument.

    The science at the moment suggests that a precautionary approach would be to take action to reduce our CO2 emissions. The only downside is an economic one and that pales into insignificance if we do nothing and have to adapt. There are a lot of economic and heath plusses if we do take action and do it smartly … the impacts of thaing action to reduce GHG emissions are not all negative -the problem is that a lot of people (conservatives by their nature) are reluctant to change.

  326. Ok, so water vapour is not a forcing agent and a feedback agent in the same way as CO2, which is why it is treated as static in the modelling?

  327. James,

    That’s my understanding of it. The feedback component is modelled though.

  328. Oh! I am having fun…

    Received my computer power supply today…installed it …applied power and phttt! Well BANG! really!

    Some DH had set the voltage to 115 in the factory!


    For all those serving and ex-diggers, matelots and air persons – have a good day tomorrow.

    To Our Fallen – Lest We Forget

  329. Hmmmm……more for this little brain to turn over. I really need to do some bloody work.

    I find Tim Lambert difficult to take seriously. 1. He looks like Strachnie, and 2. He devotes far to much time ridiculing opponents rather than dealing sensibly with their arguments. And yes, I know those types exist on the sceptical side too….

  330. Absolutely Min. It’s the stuff of nightmares. Nightmares for everyone, that is, except the Liberal Party and its support base of greedy misfits.

    Of course there’s also the ulterior motive of SerfChoices. The one we don’t hear much about. To render unions so impotent (ToM’d love this) that their membership numbers fall off and off, and with that the financial support unions donate to the Labor Party. It’s actually a political tool as much as an economic one, to cripple the Liberal Party’s political opponents. I don’t thinks it’s a stretch to suggest this is a Liberal agenda for a virtual one-party-state. Because once a party’s finances go into decline (induced decline of Labor’s finances via SerfChoices), it is difficult to turn it around to become viable again. Their aim is to see both unions and Labor wither away, with them, the Miserable Liberals and their ethically-vacuous “supporters”, left to profit, politically and economically, from the debris.

    Andrew Charlton, The Age, 30 September 2007


    You won’t hear Howard admit this, but one of his key motivations for the WorkChoices reforms is the tangible prospect that the new rules will hurt his Labor opponents by crippling their financial backers in the union movement.

  331. The only people saying the science is settled are the skeptics – it is a straw man argument.

    Dave, what about these people?

    2.1 Clinton and Gore
    2.2 Robert Watson
    2.3 Tim Wirth
    2.4 Stu Eizenstat
    2.5 Dr Kurt M. Cuffey
    2.6 John Quiggin, economist
    2.7 David Milliband, UK Environment Minister
    2.8 Camilla Cavendish

    Uses of the slogan, or things somewhat like it

  332. Dave, I’m positive I have read and seen on TV the proponents say that the science was settled to shut down debate.

    I’m sure most thinking people would want a cleaner sustainable future, I also believe more of these people are also questioning not only the science but the underlying intent to achieve this end.

    There are two great hurdles to negotiated by the proponents, firstly to get the legislation which even Garnaut is reluctant to support through the upper house and secondly convincing the world to unite on this issue and action it.

    I don’t see the glass half full or half empty, I see it for what it is…a half glass.

  333. Shane @ 12.08. I agree completely. Plus limiting the house price to $400,000 could also act as an encouragement for people to settle in rural centres.

    One thing that I would like to see is for people who have not owned a home for say 10 years to be included under the heading of first home buyers (an assets test applicable). I am thinking of a young chap I met..2nd marriage, 3 kids from his wife’s previous marriage which he supports totally. Not a hope in hades of being able to save for a deposit but this couple do not qualify as his wife previously owned a home. Her share of the sale of this house was $5,000. I am sure that there many other remarrieds in this situation.

  334. Min, the government don’t want people to settle in rural centres. Their policies quite specifically drive people closer to major urban centres. At least, at Victorian state level.

  335. Kitty, I think that negative gearing has benefits that most of us overlook.

    Firstly, I think the country will be better if people fund their retirement, as people with investment properties obviously do. The strain on the government’s bucket of money to pay an age pension for one year far exceeds the small tax advantage that a negatively geared property realises in a year.

    I should know. One of my properties is negitively geared and the benefits to me are minimal, maybe only $30 a week. In 10 years time that property will be providing me with an income that would exceed what I would get on a tax payer funded age pension.

    Secondly, the greedy investors would no doubt up the rent if there were no benefits to them through negative gearing. The $30 a week that they might be gaining now would be passed on to the tenant. Not good.

  336. That happened to me too Min. About 25 years ago my first wife bought a small unit for $17,000 as an investment but it went in joint names. She sold it a couple of years later and kept the profit of $10,000.

    I didn’t get anything out of it. My name was on the title, that’s all.

    Because of that I didn’t qualify for any first home owner’s grants.

    But that doesn’t worry me. I’m too proud to rely on handouts no matter how worthwhile and needed they might be.

  337. I agree with Miglo.

    Speaking as a “wealth crazed prick,” I too, also have an investment property, which I’m able to fully renovate, claim shitloads of those costs back on tax, keep upping the rent as the property escalates in value due to all the renovations – the luxuriously appointed dining room, the gracious drawing room, the helipad etc.. all subsidsed by the taxpayer.

    And then when I retire I just sit back and collect the rent while supping on one hundred dollar bottles of shiraz and puffing on Van Hartog cigars.

  338. James I think that Melbourne is stretched to the limit!

    From today’s Age at: http://www.theage.com.au/national/pressure-grows-as-melbourne-rockets-to-4-million-20090423-agt5.html?page=1

    And more than 20kms from the CBD is now classed as ‘outer suburbs’. I can’t imagine it! I remember when Vermont used to be ‘outer’. In fact hubby remembers when Wattle Park used to be outer suburbs.

  339. Sounds ideal reb. I might have to spend many of my days in retirement over your way.

    A brother who is nearing retirement makes his own beer. When asked what he would do with himself in retirement he responded: I will spend my mornings making beer, and I’ll spend my afternoons drinking it.

  340. That’s brilliant Miglo!

    I admire a man who khows what he wants out of life.

  341. I’m too proud to rely on handouts no matter how worthwhile and needed they might be.

    Miglo, on April 24th, 2009 at 1:08 pm Said:

    So when will you be refunding us taxpayers your public servant salary ?

  342. Walrus there is a big difference between handouts and hard-earned salaries.

  343. Reb I’ve started painting the walls in teh tunnel that leads to the cellar.

  344. And some more reb.

  345. Nice Miglo.

    The builders have just finished my modestly appointed self-contained study

  346. Nice one reb. I reckon it’d look good inside.

  347. But I must say that the stairs can present a bit of challenge after a few drinks downstairs in the study..

  348. PS reb, it looks similar to my stable.

  349. A little busy at the moment, but I thought I owed this to Miglo

  350. REb, one of the serfs was caught in the photo. Off to the torture chamber with her.

  351. Tom, I bet your Morris Major can’t do that.

  352. Yeah, that was the cleaner. Off with her head.

    Oh and here’s the sunroom Migs. I’ve just thrown a spare towl over the other recliner for you..

  353. This is how Miglo makes lots of money and keeps the advertising overheads low.

  354. “PS reb, it looks similar to my stable.”

    Ah, that would be yours here I suspect.

  355. Tony and scaper,

    I am sure that people have said it but there is an element of truth to the comment as well – most (if not all) of the skeptics arguments have been rebutted and on those points, the science is more or less settled. The second point is that there is a recognised 95% confidence that the observed increase in global temperatures is caused (at least in part) by human activity and, in particular, anthropogenic GHG emissions. On this point, the science is settled pretty much as much as a scientific thory can be (ie, it’s still a thory and not a law).

    What all climate scientists will admit is that they don’t know all the mechanisms and the feedback effects, nor what the consequences will be in 50 years exactly (ie, disagreement over sea level increases, global temperatures etc). This is what I mean when I say the science isn’t settled and what I mean when I say that the skeptics are the ones who treat any new development in our understanding as somehow rebutting the argument that the science isn’t settled – it’s a straw man argument. Essentially there is no new science out there that counters the general consensus that we are having an influence on our climate although the consequences of this are unclear (ranging from mild problems to catastrophic). To say the science is settled on this aspect is a completely defensible comment.

  356. And finally details of Miglo’s political orientation.

  357. Tax laws are jsut that, laws. If you can structure your business to reduce your exposure to those laws but remain compliance with those laws then it is not illegal. It is not a fault with you but rather the laws if it produces a morrally repugnant outcome.

    Some might even say that testing the boundaries of the laws and publicising it actually incourages legislative intervention to improve those laws. 😉 Good work Migs and IATW.

  358. Dave..2nd pic..climate change skeksis.


  359. Hey Dave, know of any references on the subject of flexibility, creativity, or communication in law?

  360. Gosh Tom. For a man who claims to be busy you sure have a lot of time for some Googling.

    Why dodn’t you be like reb and post real photos of his real places.

  361. You peasants!

    Got to think big…I’m developing West Crapperville and it will be so big I’ve built the town hall already.

    Now I’ve built it they will come…or is that go?

  362. Dodn’t is a new word I appear to have added to my vocabulary.

  363. Scaper, there have been many times I’ve been caught in the outback where I would have killed for one of those.

  364. For Sale

    Crapperville – Quarter Acre block. For Sale by Expressions of Interest. Spectacular views, Unlimited potential, renovators delight. Hurry won’t last.

    Inspection a must!

    And you dodn’t have to brang your first home owners grant.

  365. Can it be negatively geared?

  366. Yes, and it can be secured by leaving a deposit.

  367. Miglo, a very well constructed marketing ploy and some people here think I’m devoid of intelligence.

    Notice the office next to mine?

    I’m going to offer that to Tom, after all…WC would have no character without a “Town Crier”.

  368. Crapperville – with its own state of the art marina offers the discerning resident a lifestyle most people can only dream of..!

  369. Reb, I’m blushing…one of herds of prime cattle.

  370. Yes, and it can be secured by leaving a deposit.

    Tom, I’m not that “flush” with funds. Unlike your good self, who is full of it.

  371. “some people here think I’m devoid of intelligence.”

    Not at all, it is simply that no intelligence has been evident after reading your posts for about a year.

  372. Such fine boats crafted by myself from my pubic hair coated with a combination of ear wax and toe jam.

  373. James,

    Hey Dave, know of any references on the subject of flexibility, creativity, or communication in law?

    LOL We have to find some way to help us sleep at night … You should hear my justification for defending polluters in environmental harm cases!!!

  374. Not at all, it is simply that no intelligence has been evident after reading your posts for about a year.

    If it takes you that long to read the posts Tom, then I’d suggest (without fear of contradiction) that you must be very simple.

  375. Gee, I’m about to offer Tom a plumb job and he tries to insult something he claims I don’t have!

    I know what you are up to, you want to depose me and become mayor.

    Such a jealous guy…

  376. You’re right Miglo.

    I am simple as in undemanding, straightforward, unpretentious and clear cut.

    Very simple from that perspective, quite unlike you.

  377. Scaper, I find Tom a very insulting person. He’s likeable just the same.

  378. Aw shucks Miglo. Insulting people is a second nature to me. I used to hang around with some ALP types you see.

    From time to time I don’t even mean it.

  379. Oh, if you look to the right of the town hall you will see the Head of the Public Works Departments foot as he is doing some fine tuning of the amenities.

    Known infectiously as the “Boss”.

  380. Dave, I’m serious. I’ve been crapping on about AGW to you all day and I need to submit an assignment!!

  381. Say, completely off-topic..

    Has anyone seen the show Wicked in Melbourne?

    Is it worth seeing?

  382. James, I know. I said earlier that I was busy.

    Then Miglo starts an exchange, and revenue earning activity stops.

    I think Miglo is a real problem; it’s the way he replies.

  383. Oh come on Tom.

    How can you not love a duck called Miglo?

  384. Really, what is there to hate?

  385. Reb, saw it, first half crap, second half great. First half may have been affected by my general lack of willingness to see it. Be interested in your thoughts.

  386. Hmm.

    Maybe I’ll give it a miss then James.

    What should we do in Melbourne for a weekend in June?

    I’m thinking of going this highly recommended restauarant called Ginger Boy.

    Have you ever been to the Butterfly Club in South Melbourne?

  387. James,

    Sorry, I thought you were having a go at me for my bullshit defense of tax dodging.

    flexibility, creativity or communication in law huh? are they alternatives or do you have to find a mishmash of the three (I hope for your sake they are separate because I’m not sure how communication fits in with the other two).

    There might be some texts on communicating law in the media. Try looking for stuff by Richard Ackland who is pretty good at communciating the law or Wendy Bacon (A professor in journalism at UTS but kind of famous for being struck off or denied admission as a lawyer.

    I don’t know of any references for the flexability or creativeness but try jurispudance texts. There is probably a fair bit of commentary about ‘activists courts’ as well. The Mason led High Court was renown for being creative and flexible in arriving at decision. There is probably a fair bit on flexibility in relation to sentencing of criminal matters as well.

    Kirby gave a speech or paper towards the end of his tenure about being an activist judge (kind of defending the right to be an activist while at the same time kind of denying that he was one), that should be pretty easy to look up.

    The best lawyers are the creative ones – the ones who test the bounds, somethimes this requires a well resourced client and other times simply a desperate one, but not all lawyers are creative and flexible and I don’t think that you need to be an activist type judge or lawyer to be creative, sometimes the black letter lawyers are the best at pointing out the flaws in language. Absolutely no sources for this latter stuff but anecdotally, that’s what I’ve found.

    There might even be something on the ‘VIBE’, which I have found synonomous with the High Court decision of Project Blue Sky.

  388. James,

    On the communciation front, most of us are pretty verbous and happy to go on an on about stuff as well, like the other week when ….
    moderators snip – too long


  389. Unreal, Dave, that’s a 6 pack I owe you!.

    Reb, there are moves afoot to coax a certain blogger out of footy retirement so I reckon by June you could see me dance on the “James of North Melbourne Wing”. Beyond that, I’ll take it on notice and might even post on it. A top 5 perhaps.

  390. Haha, Dave, I went to see the opening address in the Macumber murder case yesterday. I could not believe that in a murder case such as that, a prosecutor could have half the jury asleep in the opening address!!!

  391. Reb – Gingerboy is fine, but I prefer food that goes with a good red, and this one doesn’t quite match. For my delicate palate anyway.

    The Press Club and Vue de Monde are my current Melbourne CBD recommendations.

  392. George has a thread up on partisanship which will be interesting if people have enough courage to declare their luggage by commenting.


  393. Vue de Monde,?
    that would be french then Tom n’est pas?

    What sort of food is the press club or is it just a bar?

  394. That’s really strange !

    I could have sworn it was Friday as I thought tomorrow was Saturday.

    But here I am still posting on a MIDWEEK thread !

  395. Walrus,

    You’ve been very quiet on the League front lately, are you too afraid to say out loud that the Dragons are playing well for fear of putting the knocker on them?

  396. Dave55, on April 24th, 2009 at 4:09 pm Said

    Just posted over there Dave

    I went to Dragons game last weekend. Very disappointing 2nd half…………They just suddenly went to sleep when Wendell went off.

  397. Reb, the Press Club is kind of modern Greek!! But not the gyros and fatty souvlaki type.

    Vue de Monde is certainly French. You’d have to have the “menu gourmand” I think it is 5 courses, and plenty of good red to go with it.

  398. “if people have enough courage to declare their luggage by commenting.”

    Why would anyone here bother?

    Next thing we know the cross promotion of the lord mayor of Crapperville will encourage us all to his site for well some informed commentary about a vast inland city, to be populated by lovers of drunk misfits, dust and flies.

  399. Tom could you get over and post something witty in the footy thread please? It’s being taken over by the sniffers.

  400. Drunk misfits?

    Tom, so I take it you will accept my job offer as the Town Crier?

  401. Walrus et al…

    The lounge bar at the Weekend Thread is now open, as is the Public Bar at James’s Footy Club Thread.

    (A dress code applies at the Weekend Thread, whereas at the Footy Club, well, cough, just look at what James is wearing)…

  402. Thanks Tom.

    I’ll make a note of those two…

    Vue de Monde sounds like a gooer..

  403. I mean “goer..”


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