Rudd to Blame for Recession.

While markets may be beginning to show what some are calling “glimmers of hope,” the current economic crisis is showing no signs of improvement.

Unemployment is skyrocketing with some 1,000 Australians losing jobs every day.

The Liberal party, unsurprisingly, is on the offensive, blaming Rudd’s economic stimulus packages as a waste of money and not resulting in creating a single job. In their defence Julia Giddard argues that job losses would have been worse without the Government’s decisive action.

Of course, it’s a moot point, given that we’ll never know the consequences had the Government not taken the action it had. What remains a key fact though, is that the Liberal Opposition hasn’t had any alternative policies or solutions that it would enact to avert the current financial downturn.

The emergence of the current “boatload” of asylyum seekers comes at an interesting time for the Government.

The furore over allegations of a cover-up from the Liberal party makes for clever political play.

Issues over “national security” and “boat people” is the heartland of Liberal Party politics. It’s their familiar stomping ground and despite assurances that they wouldn’t politicise the issue, the Liberal party has done precisely the opposite by suggesting there has been a cover up.

The Liberal party has also seized on the results of a new survey which indicates that one in four firms want to fire staff in coming months.

According to a report at news.com.au the Coalition says that this shows the Rudd Government’s economic policies are failing.

The NSW Business Chamber survey shows 24 per cent of small to medium-sized businesses expect to sack an employee in the next three months, with only nine per cent planning to hire staff.

Opposition small business spokesman Steven Ciobo said the survey results were more proof the Rudd Government’s economic policies would push up unemployment, regardless of the global financial crisis.

“There’s no doubt international factors are playing a role but I reinforce the key fact the Government’s policy settings are the single biggest driver of the Australian economy,” Mr Ciobo said.

“Unemployment is going up because this government does not have the economic competence to steer Australia through this economic tumult.”

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd yesterday conceded that Australia would be dragged into a recession for the first time in 18 years.

Mr Ciobo said the Government’s approach to “talk down” the economy was chipping away at business confidence.

“People have less confidence in the economy which is a direct result of the Government’s handling of the economy,” he said.

He said the Government’s two fiscal stimulus packages, worth a combined $52 billion, would have been better spent on cutting business taxes.

“There’s no doubt the single biggest mistake of this government was to rack up $200 billion of debt and waste $55 billion of taxpayers’ money.”

Australia’s unemployment rate stands at 5.7 per cent, with NSW having the highest jobless rate of 6.9 per cent.

As unemployment really begins to bite, and Australian families experience further hardship, increasing foreclosures and escalating prices, one begins to wonder whether the Liberal party’s criticism of the Rudd Government may begin to resonate with the Australian public.

Let’s face it, a lot of people aren’t really interested in politics at all, and may simply remember that two years ago Australia was in the middle of an economic boom, with low unemployment and a skills shortage.

Some people may draw the conclusion that things have deteriorated dramatically since Rudd came to power.

It may seem like a gross over-simplification of the issues, but ask any PR person about how to engage with an audience and they’ll tell you to keep the message simple and to the point.

I suspect that “Rudd is to blame for the recession” is a message we’re going to hear more of in the future.

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171 Responses

  1. I am not surprised by the Small Business Survey, but it is simply that, a survey. The results are what will show the true outcome of stimulation.

    I fully expect small business to say they are going to lay off people, this has been said so many times before over the years during my times in the Bank.

    And no surprise in them wanting business taxes to be cut rather than actually give money to the plebs that buy the stuff provided by small business.

    As I have said many times before and still maintain. Any business will only hire and keep enough staff to maintain a level of service that is just acceptable to the public, not an outstanding level of service, just a tolerable level of service. Therefore cutting business taxes will simply fill the pockets of business owners and do absolutely nothing to maintain employment. If you want an example look at the massive cuts in company taxes over the years yet most only mantain a staff able to provide the most limited of what I deem acceptable service. QANTAS checkins a classic example.

  2. Very good points Shane.

    And Qantas (or any other airline for that matter) check-in counter is a perfect example. Endless queues of passengers waiting to check in and only two or three working at a row of empty counters.

  3. Just a mention. Blaring headlines from the popular press..after Christmas mines lay off mega employees. And how is this different from the past decade? Normal is layoffs Christmas to after Easter when they start re-employing.

    The proof will be in the pudding if/when they start rehiring after the ANZAC weekend.

  4. “Rudd – caused – the – recession”

    Four words.

    “Rudd – made – the – recession – worse”

    Five words.

    “Rudd – Recession”

    Two words, but even some conservatives will detect this as patent bullshit.

    “Global – Financial – Crisis”

    Three words.

    In the minimalist message stakes the Coalition’s meme is too lengthy, so comes second.

  5. It’s their familiar stomping ground and despite assurances that they wouldn’t politicise the issue, the Liberal party has done precisely the opposite by suggesting there has been a cover up.

    If it’s not a cover-up, it’ll do till we get one. Five days and practically no official information has been released. Flimsy excuses about police investigations trump the public’s right to know, apparently. What happened to this Government’s promise that it would lead the way in openness and accountability?

  6. I reckon that the coalitions meme will not gain traction as the public knows that this recession is not caused by anything that happened in Australia – and that we are just following the rest of the world. If the recession was caused by Rudd then maybe it would gain traction.

    In a way, it is the good work from the previous government that will cushion us from the worst of the GFC.

  7. In a way, it is the good work from the previous government that will cushion us from the worst of the GFC.

    I dips me lid to ya, lad. It’s surprising how many still wish to deny such an obvious fact.

  8. Tony – I do not deny that the previous government did a lot of good things (like all governments). One of my issues is that the previous government tried to continually play on the one topic, that they cleared the $96 Billion debt – which is exactly what governments do in good economic times.

    Just like how I clear my debts during good times.

  9. Rudd may not get blamed for the Recession but if he persists with the emissions trading program and maternity leave in the current circumstances he will start to earn the ire of the electorate for lengthening and/or deepenning the Recession.

    The voters may yet make him Ruddundant !

  10. but if he persists with the emissions trading program

    That won’t happen this side of a Federal election. The scheme is friendless.

  11. Tony

    Maybe this government doesn’t want to go on screaming from the rafters like the previous government did with the children overboard saga and then find out the information they provide is incorrect.

    All I know at this time is that a boat blew up and people died.

    5 days is not very long for an investigation.

    Id rather get the truth than politically motivated lies that then need to be retracted or amended weeks after the inital release of the incoreect information.

  12. I also have been thinking about how effective the Coalition strategy of linking Rudd with the recession would be.

    I think that overall at this stage the electoral damage would be small and here are my reasons.

    1) Electoral cycle. Traditionally Australians do not throw out a government after one term (must be the ‘fair go principle’) Withlam came close but hung on. If the Rudd government was in power for more than ten years (as many Labor State governments are) or so then it would certainly be in trouble.

    2) Global awareness. Since the start of this financial crisis it was clearly reported that it was global and started in America. The fact that it hit the anglosphere particularly hard means that it has been reported widely in media. So I think most voters do not blame Rudd for the recession.

    3) Actions. How Rudd will be judged will depends on how he acted in the face of the global recession. The Liberals are running the argument that while the global recession has occurred, Rudd stuffed it up and made things worse for Australia by raking a sea of debt.

    This doesn’t seem to have traction because Rudd at least dis something, he is perceived to be the Prime Minister trying to help. If he did little or nothing would have been much worse. The other issue here is that the Coalition (and that’s a problem for any opposition, I remember Labor being in the same position) has failed to formulate successfully a coherent alternative way of action that people perceive to be better.

    Of course there is the issue that the chickens will come home to roost for the Rudd government when the debt has to be reduced. But I think that will be later in the cycle. And then Rudd may be in trouble as his electoral stocks will be lower.

  13. The Libs have been pushing the Rudd Recession barrow for some time now and its had bugger-all impact on the poll numbers.

    People aren’t that stupid. Racist and bigoted maybe, but they’re not blind.

    It’s bleeding obvious where the recession came from and who is to blame for causing it and they’re not having a bar of the suggestion that Rudd has caused their problems in that regard. The polls suggest they see him as trying to do something about those problems. Thus his astronomical approval ratings. Trying to lumber him with the blame for global recession that even blind Freddie can see was caused by a bunch of psychopathic credit-cowboys in the US is merely reinforcing the perception that the Libs are a carping bunch of nobodies.

    Once rergarded as the party most capable of managing the economy, they’ve squandered any political capital they had in that regard with stunts like this.

    The issue that in my view has had a better chance of resonating is, of course, boat-people. But even that doesn’t seem to be getting the same traction Howard got with it in 2001. Sure, there are the usual wingnut rants to be found on the Blogs run by the likes of Akkers and the Bolta, but it hasn’t had any discernable impact at all, so far, on the polling numbers.

    There are many potential reasons for this. One (offered by some) is that it only works when coupled with the power of incubency. (That is, bold statements like “we will decide who comes here and the circumstances in which they come” only make sense when the come out of the PM’s mouth. When spouted by the leader of the Opposition they sound, well, pathetic. How’s he going to “decide” or enforce anything?) Another is that the electorate has moved-on, having seen the majority of the Tampa refugees eventually granted refugee status and admitted to the Country, despite all of Howard’s posturing and empty rhetoric on the issue. Yet another is that perhaps people are too wrapped-up with their own immediate problems to be worried about a few dozen people in leaky boats turning-up unannounced.

    Whatever be the explanation, the Libs have made little headway with the Boat People issue either.

    So cheer-up reb.

    This isn’t 2001. None of these issues has had any discernable impact and the Libs are consistently flat-lining in the polls.

    In my view, the only person who needs to worry is Malcolm Turnbull. With an approval rating of 19% and a disapproval rating of 46%, it’s only a matter of time before he gets the boot as Opposition leader.

  14. By the way has anyone seen any polls from the USA lately. Is Obama still sitting on huge ratings like Rudd ?

  15. I’ve not yet seen any commentator blame Rudd for the recession. He does stand to be judged on his handling of it, however.

  16. Good points Evan and Guido.

    I don’t disagree.

    I just wonder whether people who are really bearing the brunt of economical hardship – losing their job, their home, their sense of self-worth etc may just start listening to the “Rudd-blamers”.

    Of course, they really only needed to be reminded of Workchoices to remind them that the Liberal party, despite their efforts to sympathise with “the ordinary worker” couldn’t really give a rats @rse about them at the end of the day.

  17. James

    How did your tips for ponys go on the weekend ? I am going to start having a few bets on the ponys each weekend after a many many year drought.

    Going to beat the recession at all costs 🙂

  18. Marveen got up for a small payout. Pinnacles ran 5th at massive odds. Barachetta, my nag, is running at Ararat on Monday. Back it if it’s wet.

  19. Remind me James and I will have a bet.

    Kamahl the Moderator: Topic please, Topic….

  20. Shut up, Kamahl……

  21. I’ve not yet seen any commentator blame Rudd for the recession

    Then you can’t have been watching too closely. Do Turnbull and Hockey count as “commentators” in your Liberal view? You can’t have been watching if you’ve missed them blaming Rudd for this by calling it THE RUDD RECESSION.

    (I believe they use alliteration in an attempt to reconnect with their dwindling support base: the braindead and easily-hoodwinked redneck reactionaries who believe any old Lieberal lies, the more audacious the better).

  22. Caney,

    Not to mention, Crazy Eyes. She’s been blabbing on about the “Rudd Recession” at every opportunity.

    In hindsight thouugh, what I think she fails to realise is that she has a minor credibilty problem.

    I think it’s something to do with the way in which her inane ramblings just seem so “forced” – overly rehearsed and calculating – either that or it’s simply the fact that she’s basically just a complete f**kin’ gormless b*tch.

  23. Reb,

    The Eyes is indeed a strange individual. As one of SerfChoices most committed proponents, she wants to cut workers’ wages and job security. Think what that does for consumer confidence and spending power, employees comprising the largest proportion of consumers in the domestic economy. Businesses reliant on consumer spending would take an ongoing hit under her SerChoices low-wage regime.

    This is more confirmation, not that any were needed, that she is economically bewildered, as well as a nasty IR extremist, and unprincipled liar, with her colleagues, Turdball and Hokey calling this THE RUDD RECESSION.

  24. Caney,

    It’s interesting isn’t it.

    The personalities. When you look at Hockey and The Eyes, they’ve adopted this constant aire of disgust and disdain for just about everything and everyone.

    It’s self-evident whenever Hockey makes a TV appearance or is asked to comment on just about anything.

    It’s like there’s this whole “oh, must I respond to these inane questions in order to enlighten the proletariat with my wisdom” performance rather than simply answer the fricken question.

    reckon they both picked it up from Abbott & Costello..

    No wonder Tony Abbott isn’t allowed anywhere near a microphone these days…

  25. “No wonder Tony Abbott isn’t allowed anywhere near a microphone these days.”

    I believe it has more to do with swinging his big dick…it got slammed in the door…ouch!

  26. Reb..re Bishop (Julie not Bronwyn) a thingy is that she is just about non existent. Mind you if I was Trunball then I would be baring all comments from here too lest it inflame (as in cause flames to commence) re speculation re a Bishop takeover.

    Mind’ya..Bishop is the Deputy and so why has she been shot down in flames. Surely this could not have come from the Costello/camp? Or the Young Turks aka the big swinging dicks. Or are these the same?

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25356921-5013871,00.html

  27. Why on Earth the Liberal dissidents are calling themselves the The Big Swinging Dicks is beyone me. Perhaps they have a sense of humour.

    Lets face it, the Libs in Opposition are more like a bunch of eunuchs so far as political effectiveness is concerned. The polls, after all, speak eloquently and consistently for their potency as a political force.

    Poor dears, looks to me like its viagra time all round.

  28. Am just listening to Hockey on Sky. Just me..but every time I look at Hockey then I am thinking Shrek. With apologies to Shrek. With big apologies to Shrek.

    Hockey was Rudd’s best mate, invited to the daughter’s wedding etc and now he’s just blah and blah. Sorry Joe, you are never going to be PM, you should have stuck with what you’re good at. And you should be stuck with your friend and now you just reek with insincerity. The Aussie public are an odd mob..they remember things such as Old Joe’s insincerity and his current shrillness on Sky News. Even the interviewer is embarrassed.

  29. This I find amazing

    No change because the corporate sector is suffering reform fatigue.

    Not because workchoices was a poisoned chalice which will destroy the party if they try to reimplement it.

    Not because the population voted against it at the last election.

    Not because it had massive holes the size of mack trucks for business to avoid liability for entitlements.

    No simply because the coprorate sector is suffering reform fatigue.

    FFS how stupid does the coalition think we are.

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25365369-29277,00.html

  30. ……………. the fact that she’s basically just a complete f**kin’ gormless b*tch.

    reb, on April 21st, 2009 at 3:35 pm Said:

    Yeh maybe…………………………but I still reckon she’s hot !

  31. Walrus,

    You can’t be serious…

    Or do you go in for that headmistress look…?

    “So, who’s been a naughty boy then?”

    “And what is it this time, running in the corridor again young Walrus..?”

    “I think you need a damned good spanking..!!”

  32. I am serious……………………!

    Don’t forget that Maggie Thatcher was also voted as one of the sexiest women in Britain when she was in power..!

    And sorry Reb………………I went to a Marist Brothers School so no headmistress for me.

  33. Why, when we have had only one quarter of negative growth – the December quarter, and the March figures aren’t due till June 3 – are Kevin Rudd and Glenn Stevens rushing to call a recession? Is there something to be gained by being so pessimistic?

    Surely there’s a chance, however slim, that the March figures will show positive growth. Even if they don’t, why the early prediction?

    Mr Stevens’s motives are unfathomable, but maybe Malcolm Turnbull is right that Kevin Rudd is just creating a diversion to relieve the pressure of the asylum seekers situation.

  34. “Mr Stevens’s motives are unfathomable, but maybe Malcolm Turnbull is right that Kevin Rudd is just creating a diversion to relieve the pressure of the asylum seekers situation.”TOSY

    Mayhaps….but more likely Malcolm is just pissing in the wind hoping not too much of it blows back upon him; as seems to be his penchant.

  35. I thought the boat-people were a diversion from discussing the economy? It is just too confusing.

    We need the former member for Bennelong to pop-up his head. Now when is that South Park episode playing on TV?

  36. I can just imagine the lousy Liberals celebrating the economic bad news, praying to their God of Greed that it translates into some political points for them.

    Libbos pop the alcopops…

    Putting a bummer on their celebration, though, would be the knowledge that they are the most unpopular Opposition in the history of Newspoll. That’d be the only thing stopping them beaming from ear-to-ear at the moment.

  37. Tony, on April 21st, 2009 at 6:42 pm Said:

    Mr Stevens’s motives are unfathomable, but maybe Malcolm Turnbull is right that Kevin Rudd is just creating a diversion to relieve the pressure of the asylum seekers situation.

    Mr Stevens’s motives are unfathomable.

    Really? After all he is the Governor of the Reserve Bank whose job it is to talk things economic FGS. Motives unfathomable? Right. Lol.

    As for:

    Kevin Rudd is just creating a diversion

    Possibly. But he also must keep a close eye on things economic because as Clinton was constantly reminded during the 1992 election “It’s the economy, stupid”

    I could provide a Wiki link but seeing Wiki has no credibility for a sophisticate such a thou, I’ll try a commentary instead.

    http://thewedges.com/the_circular_flow/2006/01/bill-clinton-its-economy-stupid.cfm

  38. Troll 5,

    You know exactly what I mean. His motives for calling a recession before we are by any official or technical measure in a recession are not explained by his position – he is not required to do it, and there is an argument that he shouldn’t do it.

  39. The recession is clearly caused by unionists and public servants who have a vehicle under a novated lease.

  40. Tony

    A bit disappointing that you sink to personal abuse. Lol. As for:

    His motives for calling a recession before we are by any official or technical measure in a recession are not explained by his position – he is not required to do it, and there is an argument that he shouldn’t do it.

    I was always taught that pronouns such as ‘he’ and ‘his’ required a noun before they made any sense. Is it Rudd or Stevens to whom you refer? Either are possible if you are being non-political. Please explain? Lol.

    Now don’t you seek refugee status again

    Troll 5. Lol. Clearly desperate.

  41. I was referring to Stevens, but it works with both.

  42. Tony, on April 21st, 2009 at 7:52 pm Said:

    I was referring to Stevens, but it works with both.

    Indeed ‘it’ might. But only if you accept that meaning is ‘given’ not ‘received’.

    So while it’s possible to ‘give’ meaning to what Rudd says, it is not possible to ‘give’ meaning to what Stevens says.

    Why is that? Surely the ‘facts speak for themselves’?

  43. I’m not interested in your games. Address the point of the arguments and I’ll respond. Otherwise, go play with someone else.

  44. “The recession is clearly caused by unionists and public servants who have a vehicle under a novated lease.”migs

    That much is obvious.

    How did you learn of the despicable, off the agenda items at our secretive Union meetings?

    Let me guess…Walter Mitty told you at a clandestine Tea & Coffee Shoppe not far from Teh Sandpit?

    Public servants, on the other hand, dream up their novated leases around the cauldron.

  45. Let me guess…Walter Mitty told you at a clandestine Tea & Coffee Shoppe not far from Teh Sandpit?

    ROFL

    (Sorry Scaper, bit that is funny.)

  46. I was trying to be semi-cryptic Tony.

    You blew my cover just as the packhuntTM was setting off.

  47. Off topic, as usual, but Kane should’ve stayed at Teh Ravens.

  48. Tony, just because Tboss is leading the tipping comp it dosn’t mean you have to suck up to him.

    Please feel free to treat him with the contempt that I so eagerly do.

  49. Kane Johnson, I presume?

  50. Ok Migs, I’ll try harder next time.

  51. Still off topic – for which I risk the wrath of Kamahl – but why does a Port player get suspended for bumping into an umpire while Simon Black only gets a reprimand for the exact offense?

    AFL umpires are certainly contributing to the recession.

    KAMAHL THE MODERATOR: Consider yourself lucky that I was off having a tandoori chicken supper when this conversation was going on.

  52. Umpires mistakenly think they are an integral part of the game. Whereas, monkeys would be better decision makers, and would be infinitely more proficient at bouncing the ball.

  53. Tony, they think they are too precious (like Crows players). They must also think that people go along to watch them umpire, and not to watch players play.

    Imagine a great player missing out on a Grand Final spot because he was rubbed out for treading on an ump’s toe the week before.

  54. Miglo, I’d like to know why you would recommend a minor motel in Canberra to our own Mayor of Crapperville.

    The only place for such VIPs is the Canberra Hotel, now the Hyatt.

  55. Miglo, I’d like to know why you would recommend a minor motel in Canberra to our own Mayor of Crapperville.

    The only place for such VIPs is the Canberra Hotel, now the Hyatt.

    Tom, I’m a public servant. I’m accustomed to being prudent.

  56. Newsflash. Wallace has kept his job. For now.

  57. Posted Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:27pm AEDT

    Prime Minister Kevin Rudd says he is confident Australia will avoid a recession despite predictions of rising unemployment and the global financial crisis hurting other countries.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/31/2407426.htm

    The Prime Minister should stop relying on horoscope readings as a means to formulate policy.

  58. Stephan, I’m sure that horoscopes were also used by John “there will never be a GST” Howard.

  59. Beg to differ Miglo, JWH just called Bush to find out what his horoscope was.

  60. Joni, are you trying to tell me that he didn’t get his from the Daily Telegraph?

  61. D’oh! My mistake.

  62. That’s what I like about you joni. When you’re wrong you will admit it. You take ownership of your actions. You have my respect.

    Some others on this site will argue black and blue about whaterver bullshit and ignore facts that dangle in front of their eyes and keep forever shouting “I woz right”. Even when they are clearly wrong and the whole world knows it.

    Well, I suppose they can’t all be perfect like you and me.

  63. Reb

    I suspect you’re right:

    I suspect that “Rudd is to blame for the recession” is a message we’re going to hear more of in the future

    Been thinking the same:

    Myth Busting: Australia’s Economic Superheroes.
    https://blogocrats.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/myth-busting-australias-economic-superheroes/#comments
    “The economy is much like a little boat on Sydney Harbour on Boxing Day. Whether the trip is calm or rocky depends much more on the weather and the wash from the bigger boats than anything that might be done internally. If the weather is bad, you cannot blame the skipper for the bumpy ride. In fact, unless you know a lot about sailing, it is hard to know whether the skipper is doing a good job in bad circumstances, or whether he’s making it worse.

    The same is true of skippering the economy. If you ask Australians about the economy in the decade or so of John Howard’s prime ministership they will remember the low unemployment rates, the low inflation, low interest rates and the general mood of affluence which suffused the nation. Howard turned this prosperity into stunning electoral success.”

  64. Reb

    While markets may be beginning to show what some are calling “glimmers of hope,” the current economic crisis is showing no signs of improvement.

    Unemployment is skyrocketing with some 1,000 Australians losing jobs every day.

    Some investors get really hyped when companies start shedding costs..I mean jobs. There’s some way to go yet and the market will reflect the changes in future earnings expectations along with actually results.

  65. “Newsflash. Wallace has kept his job. For now”

    🙄

  66. I’m with Jessica on this one.

    It’s bricks and slaughter out there
    * Jessica Irvine
    * April 22, 2009
    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/its-bricks-and-slaughter-out-there-20090421-adxz.html?page=-1
    The Rudd Government’s boost to the first-home owners grant stirred up many old wives’ tales that have sustained the great Australian dream of home ownership. It’s time to dismiss a few of them.

    Across the country, baby boomer parents whisper in the ears of their progeny that now is the time to buy. They warn: “You’ll never get in if you don’t.” They say: “You’re better off paying off your own mortgage than your landlord’s.” For those not yet convinced, they resort to the old catchcry: “Rent money is dead money.”

    What they forget is that average house prices are now seven times the average annual salary, up from about three times when the boomers first bought in. They forget, too, that in the months since the temporary boost to the first-home owners grant – $7000 for established homes and $14,000 for new ones – house prices in the sub-$500,000 category have ballooned.

    Seemingly unaware of the false economy, first-home buyers have engaged in a game of mutually assured destruction, and in fact, have been bidding house prices up.

  67. Now the link between financial markets and the real economy are about to kick-in. Don’t expect banks to follow the RBA in cutting rates, in fact, it’s about to get a lot tougher as far as lending goes.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25368241-601,00.html
    The IMF believes the financial crisis is entering a dangerous new phase, with massive government budget deficits making it impossible for banks and companies to raise money.

    This will particularly affect countries such as Australia that depend on international capital markets to finance the banking system.

    The fund’s review of world financial stability released last night said nations relying on wholesale financial markets risked “more rapid, disorderly deleveraging” in which bank lending could be abruptly slashed.

  68. John

    While I respect your comments, the IMF are one of the worst forecasters in our history regarding what will happen in economies and countries around the world. I have never believed them before and even though there may be a bit of truth ( somewhere in their ramblings) to their forecasts, I refuse to believe them now.

  69. This will particularly affect countries such as Australia that depend on international capital markets to finance the banking system.

    Interesting. I had heard the opposite. That Australian banks are less dependant on international markets to finance the banking system in Australia than our international counterparts.

    Local bank deposits are up, and the banks are “finding” new sources of revenue through hiking Credit Card interest rates and bank fees on ATM transactions – up to $2 per transaction – some of the highest fees worldwide.

    Honestly, I really don’t see Australian banks struggling here, and if smaller financial institutions can pass on the las rate cut in full this would also suggest that our banks are doing rather well despite their claims of crying poverty.

  70. reb

    You are totally correct. The funds being obtained by our major banks from overseas capital markets is shrinking continually as aussies and world investors invest in Term Deposits and Online accounts with our major Banks due to the government guarantee.

    The Banks crying poor over higher funding costs from overseas is just a smoke screen.

  71. I tend to take the view that as far as banks are concerned, we probably don’t know the half of it. Like exposure to toxic assets.

    Global toxic assets could reach $5.7 trillion:IMF
    http://business.smh.com.au/business/world-business/global-toxic-assets-could-reach-57-trillionimf-20090422-ae8l.html
    Bank writedowns associated with so-called “toxic assets” clogging up the global financial system could eventually reach $US4 trillion ($5.73 trillion), the International Monetary Fund says

    I’ve never been able to swallow that our banks are fundamentally sound, either. The truth is our own levels of personal debt and the fallout from any major defaults hasn’t hit home yet, and from what I can gather many of the potential liabilities to toxic financial instruments may actually be hidden away off the balance sheets.

    Inter-bank lending has no doubt become extremely tight simply because nobody trusts anybody at this point in time.

    My mistrust goes to the level of accuracy we’re getting from banks.

  72. John

    NAB confirmed it had exposure to toxic assets in the US to the tune of $800 mill and then wrote it off in full. The other Banks confirmed they have no exposure to NINJA CDOs.

    In addition there are always writeoffs regarding any finance lending as any loan is a risk. Our Banks have admitted their bad loans will increase but as I have pointed out previously our Banks never ever did NINJA loans so this toxic faciltity ( which brought the US and the UK undone) was by shear timing, not implemented by our major banks.

  73. Shane

    It depends on who and what you believe, and frankly, banks don’t instill confidence where honesty is concerned. Yes, they’ll disclose exposure to liabilities to a point, but only to a point. Nor is the RBA quick to disclose what they know or suspect. That’s just the way it works. I take the more cynical view.

  74. Fair enough John, you are more than welcome to remain cynical.

  75. Never fear Shane, I respect your feedback always and do take on board what you’re saying. Just my gut tells me we’re not getting the whole picture.

  76. No fear John as I remain optomistic and I too respect your input and feedback we agree on many things and disgaree on some others.

  77. this would also suggest that our banks are doing rather well despite their claims of crying poverty.

    reb, on April 22nd, 2009 at 8:24 am Said:

    So much conflicting information in the press these days.

    All I know is that I had a meeting with one of the Four Pillars yesterday. They offered to refinance $12 Million at 1.25% above BBSW.

    Apparently this one particular guy had a $300M book to lend out by the end of May or his bosses were going to ship his wife and children off to the Ivory Coast and sell them into slavery (well thats how keen he was to do business).

    Some of these economists and particularly those in the ivory towers of the IMF need to get out into the real world.

    Sure things are not entirely rosey but they also have to realize that good news does not sell newspapers.

    And of course Banks are going to cry poor. That’s why they have PR and Media Management departments

  78. reb, on April 22nd, 2009 at 8:24 am Said: ..Local bank deposits are up, and the banks are “finding” new sources of revenue through hiking Credit Card interest rates and bank fees on ATM transactions – up to $2 per transaction – some of the highest fees worldwide…

    Scanning back I can’t see that this has been mentioned, but also via

    National Australia Bank and Westpac Banking Corp have joined Commonwealth Bank of Australia in raising interest rates on fixed home loans, citing higher funding costs.

    The above from: http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/CBA-raises-fixed-rate-home-loan-rates-pd20090420-RAB3T?OpenDocument&src=mp

    A conclusion might be that the banks want to screw customers who want some sort of security via fixed home loan rates.

  79. And another thing. Might I suggest that $5.2 Trillion in bank toxic debt is a surprisingly low figure.

    When you consider that the Australian economy’s GDP is approximately $1.2 Trillion per annum and this is from the output of what…………………10 or 12 million workers then a world wide figure 4 times that amount does not seem all that hideous.

    If anything it’s shockingly low

  80. Good point John McPhilbin, on April 22nd, 2009 at 8:42 am..The truth is our own levels of personal debt and the fallout from any major defaults hasn’t hit home yet,..

    And how many of defaults will be a result of Australia’s extreme personal debt? That is, the banks have come to the party (up until recently) re housing debts but are still trying to bleed the public re personal debt aka credit cards. To me, it is credit card debt that will send us broke.

  81. …….To me, it is credit card debt that will send us broke.

    Min, on April 22nd, 2009 at 9:54 am Said:

    Mmmmmmmmmmmm…………..!

    Consider this. A number of our suppliers offer credit card payment facilities which firstly provide us with the opportunity to defer our cash outgoings by another 45 days and secondly provide us with fly buy points to send our staff interstate for free.

    Last month the corporate credit card balances peaked at $212,000. Bearing in mind that credit cards always have a personal name attached to them and that it is quite common for most corporates to pay as much as possible on credit cards only to then pay it ALL off immediately when due just how much “credit card debt” is actually “personal” these days ?

  82. Walrus..I’ll have to leave this one to wiser heads than mine. Why don’t they just pay cash..after all one often gets a discount for cash compared with running up credit card debts.

  83. Walrus..I’ll have to leave this one to wiser heads than mine.

    Min, on April 22nd, 2009 at 10:29 am Said:

    Min, it’s because some companies (usually the really big ones) just dont give much of a discount for “cash”. So we go for the flying points. It is a very very common practice.

    My point is that I’ve never sen a study of how much “Corporate credi card debt” is reflected in “Personal credit card debt”

    I dont think anyone has even attempted to work it out. Perhaps it’s not a lot but perhaps it does skewer the average figures upward by a large amount………….I just dont know

  84. Walrus re My point is that I’ve never sen a study of how much “Corporate credi card debt” is reflected in “Personal credit card debt”

    I dont think anyone has even attempted to work it out. Perhaps it’s not a lot but perhaps it does skewer the average figures upward by a large amount………….I just dont know..

    Perhaps we have a project for John McP 🙂

    My point, which I may have expressed badly (economics not being my forte) is that will it be home loans that send people down the tube, or will it be their credit card debt? That is..it might be blamed on home loans, but might it in reality credit be card debt. Imagine the Headlines: Record credit card debt forces home owners from their homes.

  85. And why do larger companies not give discounts for cash ????

    The usual excuse is that their accounting software is not set up to do it and they would then need to raise a credit note for the difference which would need to go to their state credit controller to approve and he’s on holidays at the moment and if the credit note is not approved on time the credit amount will cause our account to be put on “stop supply”…………………………………………………..So please just pay us by credit card and get your flying points from your card provider.

    Welcome to the world of business !

  86. No one can sensibly blame this government for the recession.

    What we are entitled to blame them for is ill directed, poorly conceived and badly targeted, inefficient spending.

    Billions on insulation and billions more on middle class handouts.

    It is poor public policy and Swan will ultimately have to account for how much has been wasted. So far billions.

  87. Walrus..accounting software does not allow one to issue a credit note? This excuse to me comes under the heading of ‘feeble’.

    I don’t know what your experience has been of Frequent Flyers and Velocity but ours is b-a-d. A squillion points banked up and there are no flights available when you need them.

  88. (reb) Endless queues of passengers waiting to check in and only two or three working at a row of empty counters.

    It’s pretty much the same for any service that the public uses, the endless queues and poor service have in fact driven people away, most of us bank online and phone ahead to organise rather than join a queue. Busines is on to that though, very quickly we have had fees introduced for them having to do nothing for us! Look at food shopping, entertainment venues, business and medical services, we are always in lengthy queues, even in the good times when businesses prosper.

    Business will use the recession as an excuse to cut costs, they would probably lay off the workers anyway, regardless of a recession. Hell, they threaten jobs will suffer if business is regulated in any meaningful way or even if they are forced to provide a decent service or if qantas gives their customers a (disease ridden, poor quality – LOL ) banana from the philipines. I can’t remember a time when they haven’t spruiked that jobs will suffer over any issue.

    (from J Mac’s first quote) Across the country, baby boomer parents whisper in the ears of their progeny that now is the time to buy….

    So times can’t be too tough for some (looking at you migs – LOL) the housing market is still being motivated by greed.

    On the subject of asylum seekers, Malbull will have a hard time containing the dissenters within his own party again, already the infighting has begun, so the more hardline he takes publicly, the more his leadership suffers.

  89. “the more hardline he takes publicly, the more his leadership suffers.”

    Perhaps KittlyLitter, although I suspect that there are those in the Liberal party that are practically salivating at the prospect of Talculm taking a hard line against asylum seekers (think Bishop, Hockey and Abbott), it reminds them of the halcyon times under Howard and perhaps those old hard liners see toying with the rascism card as their ticket out of obscurity and complete and utter irrelevance.

    Poor old Talculm’s rooted regardless of whether he’s outspoken against asylum seekers (which he has already done) despite saying that he won’t, or not speaking out against them (which is kind of too late).

    I seriously wonder why he doesn’t just go and find something more interesting to do with his life.

    He’s obviously an intelligent man, and like me, once lived in a rented flat.

    Maybe he could open a boutique wine shop or buy a vineyard somewhere and do a luxury boutique B&B with Lucy. I’d go and stay – even if it was just to quaff back the complimentary post supper port.

  90. Perhaps we’re reaching a tipping point Walrus?

    Crisis sends downgrades to worst-ever highs
    Chris Zappone
    April 22, 2009
    http://business.smh.com.au/business/crisis-sends-downgrades-to-worstever-highs-20090422-aemq.html

    More Australian businesses have been downgraded in the last six months than ever before as the impact of the global recession squeezes the economy.

    Almost 130,000 Australian businesses have had their risk profile downgraded since October of last year, when the global financial crisis accelerated last year, Dun & Bradstreet said today.

    The downgrades mean that 130,000 businesses “are now a higher risk of experiencing financial distress over the next twelve months,” D&B said.

    The credit reporting agency also said there were 150,000 businesses “at higher risk of paying their bills in a delinquent manner”.

  91. The second largest economy and our largest trading partner Japan are in trouble. There’s little our government can do about it.

    Japan’s trade deficit worst since 1980
    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25369148-5017997,00.html

    JAPAN’S trade with the rest of the world continued to sag in March, as a severe recession at home exacerbated the effects of the global downturn, the Japanese government said.

    Falling global trade has squeezed the world’s second biggest economy, which shrank at an annualised 12.1 per cent in the September-December period, and is expected to contract by a similar degree in the January-March period.

    The trade balance for the fiscal year ended March 31 logged a deficit of 725.3 billion yen ($10 billion). That was the first deficit since fiscal year 1980, the Ministry of Finance said.

    With the country’s recession-stricken businesses and consumers scaling back on foreign goods, imports fell 36.7 per cent on year. Exports, meanwhile, plunged 45.6 per cent. That gave Japan a trade surplus, at Y11.00 billion, for the second straight month.

  92. So times can’t be too tough for some

    Me included Kitty. I’m not greedy like you think I am. I’m actually dollar poor, though asset rich.

    I’ve mentioned it often that I had nothing a few years ago. I am thus motivated to secure a comfortable retirement for my wife and I when the day comes. If I have to be aggressive about it it is because I don’t have too many working years left.

  93. A dollar poor public servant?

    Is there such a thing…??

    What about that wine cellar you showed me? And the renovations to the East Wing???

  94. OK reb, I admit that a lot of my money is tied up in wine and extensions to my vast underground cellar.

    I might have to buy out the neighbour so that I can extend the cellar under their house. Am also thinking of installing a small monorail to travel quickly around the wine racks.

  95. Me included Kitty. I’m not greedy like you think I am.

    I know migs, just a joke at your expense, although perhaps I should have resisted the desire, I don’t want tom to notice!

    He’s obviously an intelligent man, and like me, once lived in a rented flat.

    yeah, why would you do it, he could easily retire and enjoy his mega squillions, instead, he wants to publicly humiliate himself! It’s all about timing innit? Brendan the bikie forced his hand too early and now he has to stand there with costello’s knife lodged in his back. Who would ever want the devious and malevolent costello on their side/team?

  96. I see. Something modest like this I suspect.

  97. Kittylitter – “just a joke at your expense”

    Look Kittylitter, Miglo is a self confessed slum lord property speculator! Don’t give him an inch; he’ll want to develop it into a real estate investment.

  98. reb, on April 22nd, 2009 at 11:32 am Said: ….

    Which reminds me, hasn’t Abbott being amazingly quiet of late.

    Re:

    I seriously wonder why he (Turnbull) doesn’t just go and find something more interesting to do with his life.

    I think that he ponders this every evening after yet another bad day. Turnbull is all over the place with every issue. I keep getting the impression (wave to Aqua and Migs) that Turnbull has an image about what it means to be a politician. I feel like shaking the bloke sometimes, that Turnbull should take a backstep and just tell the truth about what he believes rather than worrying about what he thinks he should say.

  99. What about that wine cellar you showed me? And the renovations to the East Wing???

    I think it’s the ‘whine’ cellar (oh, I hate my bad bitch boss!) where he consoles himself by reading the latest financial investment news and counting his assets.

  100. Walrus..accounting software does not allow one to issue a credit note? This excuse to me comes under the heading of ‘feeble’.

    Min, on April 22nd, 2009 at 11:04 am Said:

    Min………………of course it allows a credit note to be issued

    “but it has to be approved by the NSW State Credit Controller first, and he’s on holidays pursuing his favourite past time of photographing the rarely seen Hairy Nosed Wombat……………..and if he does not approve the credit note in time the accounting software automatically puts you on “stop supply” which only the NSW State Credit Controller can override………………………………..so please Mr Walrus just give us your credit card details please ”

    As far as flights are concerned we dont sem to have too many problems for Syd to Mel or Syd to Bris. So if you are OK flying at 6am then no probs at all

  101. Perhaps we’re reaching a tipping point Walrus?

    John McPhilbin, on April 22nd, 2009 at 11:34 am Said:

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…..!

    But you see John, D & B will do a blanket downgrade of businesses that refuse to answer their questionaires. Businesses just like the one I work for.

    We refuse to answer their questions on the basis as its absolutely none of their business. If we want to raise funds we do it upon the basis of what our audited accounts say about us……..not on the basis of what D & B say about us.

    So for us D & B are irrelevant………………but for a journalist that would be one less easy article to write.

  102. I feel like shaking the bloke sometimes, that Turnbull should take a backstep and just tell the truth about what he believes rather than worrying about what he thinks he should say.

    That would be political suicide since the ‘broad church’ of his own party can’t get with what he believes!

  103. Something a bit smaller actually reb. It’s hard to manoeuvre around tight corners so I need something with more agility.

    What are you doing on this thread Tom? I thought I left you on the other thread to talk to yourself.

    Go on, complain about my choice of monorail.

    I’m going to lunch now. I won’t tell you what I have to eat . . . you’ll probably complain about it.

  104. Thanks Walrus, I’m glad I consulted with you. Note to self: She’ll be right- no problem here (wink)

  105. John McPhilbin, on April 22nd, 2009 at 12:13 pm Said:

    John……………you can happily continue with your sarcasm…………….I couldn’t give a stuff……………………..you just accept everything you read because clearly you have very little coalface experience.

    I can only tell you that we dont care what D & B thinks of us as we dont ask them for money.

    But its good to see that you still respect the opinions of D & B since they also gave A plus ratings to plenty of toxic debt in the first place (WINK)

  106. As far as flights are concerned we dont sem to have too many problems for Syd to Mel or Syd to Bris. So if you are OK flying at 6am then no probs at all…hehe Walrus.

    That’s about it..book at least a month or so ahead and if you’re lucky that you might get to use your Frequent Flyer points as long as you feel like catching either the 0600 or the 2030 flight. Not that you can be given a seat even when online indicates that there are 20 seats still available.

  107. Walrus

    Little coalface experience? (Lol)

  108. ..you really are a Walrus (wink)

  109. #
    John McPhilbin, on April 22nd, 2009 at 12:26 pm Said:
    #
    John McPhilbin, on April 22nd, 2009 at 12:27 pm Said:

    Is that it ……………..!

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz !

  110. Don’t worry Walrus.

    Welcome to the club of us that have our “blinkers on” as John likes to put it….

    🙄

  111. kittylitter, on April 22nd, 2009 at 12:10 pm Said: That would be political suicide since the ‘broad church’ of his own party can’t get with what he believes!

    So we have a current situation where Turnbull is just mouthing what he thinks is acceptable to his own party. I think most definitely re his very very odd pronouncement re reinstating TPVs when he has always been a progressive.

    Turnbull has yet to work out that he should be stating a resounding YAY..But I could do it better…

    And agreed there is always the spectre (ghostly) of Costello hanging over Turnbull’s head.

  112. Reb & Miglo – here’s the best way to combine a monorail with wine, food, sun and holiday.

    Highly recommended!

    http://www.travelpod.com/travel-photo/everardt/3/1210440780/xx.jpg/tpod.html

    Here’s another –

    http://www.travelpod.com/travel-photo/everardt/3/1210440780/k.jpg/tpod.html

  113. Now that’s my idea of a working holiday Tom!

  114. Ahhhhhh…….!

    Cinque Terre…………………….been there done that !

    I love Italy

  115. For John McP…

    My dear, young man, don’t take it too hard. Your work is ingenious. It’s quality work. And there are simply too many notes, that’s all. Cut a few and it will be perfect.

    MOZART Which few did you have in mind, Majesty?

    Salieri: I can speak for the emperor. You make too many demands on the royal ear.

  116. Min

    Lol. Brilliant. Perhaps the court ‘rebster’ and his ‘Walrus’ will appreciate fewer notes. So be it. But which notes?

  117. John..am so very pleased that you got the joke. I have just emailed thinking that it might have been taken the wrong way.

  118. Which notes? These ones:

    “We’re all doomed. It’s already too late.”

    😉

  119. Reb

    Welcome to the club of us that have our “blinkers on” as John likes to put it….

    Walrus’s don’t have blinkers reb, they’re called ‘flippers’. I’ve got to say though you’ve got it well trained. (wink)

  120. Reb

    Come on …Ole Jack has a remedy for what ails you..and no, Shirley I’m not joking (LOL)

  121. Now that’s my idea of a working holiday Tom!

    Hopefully Tom will go on one, somewhere out of range of the digital world.

    Speaking of which, I heard on Radio National that Afghanistan has faster broadband speeds than Australia.

  122. Interesting feedback to this news.com.au article about kevin rudd taking away the negative gearing on hobby farms (relax migs and others, NG on rental homes will remain!).

    Talk about the ‘righteous’ wealthy and their belief that only they work hard and deserve every rort that they can get, but the dole bludgers are still the ones that they love to hate.

    Kevin Rudd to close tax loopholes in 2009 federal Budget

  123. “…………..So be it. But which notes?”

    John McPhilbin, on April 22nd, 2009 at 1:07 pm Said:

    Just the notes that are written by the usual run of the mill 22 year old Fairfax journo who gets suckered in to write a generalised article on how many businesses D & B have downgraded this month.

    D & B arbitrarily downgrade whole bands of businesses because they dont have access to the financial information on thousands of Pty Limited companies.

    Their reports are largely useless. That’s why they call me once or twice a year and start with their usual crap of

    ….” Hello Mr Walrus …..I’m Boris from D & B and we are currently refreshing the information we have on our files about your Company”

    My usual reply is …………

    “Refreshing !!!!!!!!!!!!!……..what rubbish you dont have any info on us anyway………….Piss off I’m busy”

    So we get downgraded……………

    Our “care factor” is ZERO

  124. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz !

  125. Precisely Migs..Australia is just a backwater re broadband.

  126. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz !

    John McPhilbin, on April 22nd, 2009 at 1:25 pm Said:

    Good……………………!

    That means we will all be spared yet another “cut and paste” job at least for one afternoon…………!

  127. The hobby form rort has been going on for years. Rich lawyer was once able to purchase 50 acres, get himself a 4WD and claims tax exemption as it was allegedly for the farm.

    The Keating Govt caught onto this one and shut the door on it. Nothing happened to close all the loopholes for 13 years, ie, until now.

  128. Walrus..take a good whiff

  129. And if you want a laugh you can read the feedback in this section where dobbers are dobbing in people for making ‘cash payments,’ wages paid under the table etc. Some obviously pro (hard working) small business people don’t seem to have a problem with this illegal, immoral and unethical practice.

    Bet the same upstanding citizens would be the first to phone the terror hotline, report any illegal immigrants (although visa overstayers are welcome) and welfare cheats.

    Readers’ Comments
    Fair-go attitude sees tax cheats caught

  130. Miglo, on April 22nd, 2009 at 1:31 pm Said:

    Miglo……………….not all rorts have been shutdown it would seem. Holiday houses can still be negatively geared via various structures by the looks of it. The main proviso being the “rent” needs to be at a market rate.

  131. migs, did you read the readers comments though – the mentality of people?

  132. Walrus – “Cinque Terre…………………….been there done that !”

    No Walrus, you need to return again & again.

    You know, visit your favorite restaurant where you know the owner. Stay in the same quaint little accommodation. Have a long lunch at a café on Via dell’Amore a few days in a row…

    No one has ever done enough of that.

  133. I had a look at a few of them Kitty and it sounds as though it is the small business owner who has the greatest opportunity to defraud the government through cash jobs.

    I heard of one such person who pockets a thousand dollars a week through cash jobs and then complained that there weren’t enough doctors to attend to his son in the hospital emergency ward. Helloooo.

    He actually pockets more per year than the salary of his highest wage earner. Must add that he was also a Howard hugger.

  134. Kitty..having had numerous tradies in over the past umpteen months, all requested cash in hand and gave discounts for this.

    Whoa..but wasn’t Costello’s GST supposed to stop all of this under the counter trading?

  135. Kitty, I actually like paying tax. The more I pay means the more I earn. And I do like the idea of the Rudd Govt using some of it to assist those who are in need. I don’t mind my taxes going to help fellow Aussies.

  136. Tom

    I agree…………………………..but I also love Amalfi/Positano.

    I actually found the food was a bit better too.

    But all of Italy is fantastic.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalfi_Coast

    PS I’d love to seen the Petrol Head from Canberra tackle the Amalfi Coast road in his Ford 4 Litre Straight 6.

  137. Min – “but wasn’t Costello’s GST supposed to stop all of this under the counter trading?”

    In, rather than talk about Costello’s GST, it is always useful to remember that some of us have been proponents since Paul Keating persuaded us in the early 80s. I didn’t change my mind about the benefits of it, unlike most partisan types.

    The GST is intended to reduce reliance on personal income tax, and to ensure that those that operate in the cash economy make at least some contribution.

    It is good to refer to the Keating rationale for guidance, he was quite right. But I won’t delve into the underhanded actions that undermined his reform agenda.

  138. Kitty,

    I liked this comment:

    “ato should investigate all taxi driver. they can have a lot of fish there.”

    Posted by: jane 4:12pm today

  139. And speaking as someone who has lived in a rented flat and subsequently purchased one. Ask any tradie to do a job and the first question they ask is “do you need a receipt?” nudge nudge wink wink. “why no, I don’t think I do, that’ll be 10% off won’t it?’

    “It’s a deal”.

  140. Walrus, my next model will be the turbo version. I want to spend the rest of my life as a hoon.

    Reb, I think all divers should be investigated, especially Aqua. God knows how many undeclared fish he has caught.

  141. Kitty, I actually like paying tax. The more I pay means the more I earn. And I do like the idea of the Rudd Govt using some of it to assist those who are in need. I don’t mind my taxes going to help fellow Aussies.

    me too migs, am in complete agreement with that.

    Kitty..having had numerous tradies in over the past umpteen months, all requested cash in hand and gave discounts for this.

    Have we become a nation of ‘joe the (tax avoiding) plumbers’?

    He actually pockets more per year than the salary of his highest wage earner. Must add that he was also a Howard hugger.

    Aren’t they all? They love uniforms of authority (police, defence etc), traditions, pomp and ceremony, god and …we hear it all the time LAW ABIDING!…except when it comes to paying tax, then they become a criminal of the worst kind.

    Why didn’t that fellow take his kid to a private doctor? Usually they go by the ‘you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours’ principle. meaning that they are all rorting every system that they can at every opportunity.

  142. Kitty,

    I liked this comment:

    “ato should investigate all taxi driver. they can have a lot of fish there.”

    Yeah, taxi drivers being so wealthy…no? But I have noticed that a lot of them are brown skinned, talk funny and even…muslim looking…OMG very fishy!

  143. Yes Walrus, the Amalfi Coast is sensational, I might put it on the agenda for later this year. It is a little more crowded that the Cinque Terre though.

    I love that village, wine and water ambiance.

    And don’t worry Miglo, when I was last away, and not that long ago, I continued to annoy everyone via my mobile and internet cafes.

    I’d never bother to go anywhere so remote that I loose contact with the hurly burly of life here.

    As for – “I want to spend the rest of my life as a hoon.”, I think you mean that you wish to spend the rest on your life continuing to be ..

  144. Yes Walrus, the Amalfi Coast is sensational, I might put it on the agenda for later this year.

    Tom, why don’t you spend your holiday in Australia and help our economy?

  145. With apologies for being off topic. It’s hubby Jeff’s 61st birthday today. Same as usual, 5am start at the desal plant.

    I found a piece of pork on special (hubby’s favorite) for his birthday dinner plus ye olde chocolate drumstick icecreams for supper.

  146. Miglo, I spend lots of money on domestic holidays and travel. Organising all my leisure activities keeps me very busy.
    Sometimes I go interstate for a weekend or a few days, Noosa and Rockhampton have amazingly cheap airfares at the moment. I always have 2 longish (2 or 3 weeks) holidays in Australia. One on the Victorian coast, one north. Never remote.

    I’d say I spend more on domestic holidays that 99% of the population, therefore I like to have a trip to somewhere like the Cinque Terre each year as well.

    You should try it instead of spending your money on fuel guzzling hoon cars and property tax rorts.

  147. What’s this, pick on tradies day?

    Some person at Jack’s site reckons that all tradies are conservatives…amongst other things.

    Can’t let that go through to the keeper!

  148. No thanks Tom. In the current economic climate I’d rather keep as much of my money in Australia as I can. I buy Australian where possible, and I holiday in Australia.

    I’m patriotic.

  149. What’s this, pick on tradies day?

    No scaper, it’s pick on Tom day.

  150. Scaps..had my own thing recently where people on numerous blogs were saying that the Navy should shoot the refugees out of the water. Can you imagine the crew doing this when the drumed in thing is preserving life at sea.

  151. And Migs..so you think that my pick of Galway Port is a good drop for hubby’s birthday. I personally have never overcome the situation in ’68 when I was extremely ill at my first grownups party from drinking sherry and so am not a spirit drinker.

    Whoops..off topic.

    It was all KRUDD’S fault!

  152. I’m very patriotic Miglo, and as soon as the restaurants in Terrigal or Batemans Bay have views like this –

    I’ll be staying home for all my holidays.

    Did I tell you I also spend lots on our wine, and plenty in bars and restaurants as well? There’s no doubting my commitment to propping up our leisure sector.

    You just prop up the hoon automobile, tax dodging and property speculation sectors.

  153. Min the first time I got drunk was on sherry and I absolutely hate the stuff because of it. Ended up being engaged to a girl called Sherry for a while and that ended in disaster.

    No more sherry for me.

  154. Did I tell you I also spend lots on our wine, and plenty in bars

    No Tom, but you didn’t have to tell me. I can tell by your constant dribble that you are regularly inebriated.

  155. Min, some of the comments I read out there was an eye opener, to say the least.

    I put it down to not wanting to share our nation and more importantly, our lifestyle.

    On this latest stimulus…has anyone heard or seen anything in relation to schools, shovel ready projects or insulation?

    All the avenues I have enquired through have heard nothing.

  156. “I put it down to not wanting to share our nation and more importantly, our lifestyle.”

    I want to know which lifestyle we are talking about.

    Miglo’s tax dodging, boss hating, hoon car lifestyle?

    Or the fly blown, dust in every body crevice, 2 day drive through scrub to see… what – the vision for a city of the future, lifestyle.

    These lifestyle preferences are eye openers for the rest of us.

  157. Sadly..it’s something that gets into ones head about refugees.

    I remember on Matty Price’s blog and then on Tim’s saying..it’s a war..how can Howard say that the refugees from these wars be treated so badly.

    Yes re the insulation thing and am going to organise it for my Mum down in Hawthorn. Mother suffered a lot last summer and so this is going to be a blessing.

  158. Miglo – “I can tell by your constant dribble that you are regularly inebriated.”

    This is far from inaccurate. Regularly, weekly certainly, though not constantly and never during the daylight hours. What do you own up to?

  159. Being “patriotic” is over-rated as far as I’m concerned.

    Particularly when some of our greatest exports are encapsulated in Australian “icons” like Steve Irwin and Fosters beer.

    Although I gladly support our local industry by purchasing the occasional bottle of Australian red.

    Not that any of you would be aware of this of course…

  160. What do you own up to?

    I’m intolerant of fools. Especially ones that post on Blogocrats, fortunately of which, there are few.

    Now reb’s against me.

  161. Some person at Jack’s site reckons that all tradies are conservatives…amongst other things.

    I thought it was small business people in general that we were talking about, and from my experiences of them…they are mostly conservative and the most bigoted and ignorant of all, except for their wives, who are often viciously worse (you and yours excepted scaper!) oh, and the police, but at least they have some excuse because of the demands of the job. Conservative tradies/business owner think everyone wants to hear their opinions on all and sundry too, they never stop complaining.

    Maybe some tradies of particular industries are more conservative than others?

    Min the first time I got drunk was on sherry and I absolutely hate the stuff because of it.

    Same for me, only it’s bacardi rum, just typing the words makes me shudder!

  162. Miglo,

    I take no offence at being considered a fool.

  163. Reb, you’re no fool. Far from it.

  164. “I’m intolerant of fools. Especially ones that post on Blogocrats”

    Well we have that in common, though I think we might differ on the definition of a fool.

    I think a fool is somebody considered to be or made to appear ridiculous, or considered to lack good sense or judgment, ie you Miglo.

    Implicit in your comment is that you suggest yours truly is one, in which case you seem to think this is defined as having or showing great knowledge gained from study and reading, articulate and intelligent, ie me.
    .
    .
    KAMAHL THE MODERATOR: Maybe you two boys should get a room…

  165. Tom, that was actually funny. Your first foray into comedy has been successful. Perhaps you do have a career after Blogidiocy.

  166. Re – KAMAHL THE MODERATOR: Maybe you two boys should get a room…

    Yeah, I know your type… you encourage Miglo & I to settle our differences “in a room”. Next thing someone either turns up with a camera, or to advocate some other compromising activity. There is no way I’m going to a room with Miglo.

    I’ve already got enough mistresses; I don’t need the complication of Miglo as a manstress.

  167. reb, on April 22nd, 2009 at 2:01 pm Said:

    Kitty,

    I liked this comment:

    “ato should investigate all taxi driver. they can have a lot of fish there.”

    Posted by: jane 4:12pm today

    I hasten to say that wasn’t me. No taxis where I live.

    Re the $1000/week small business person. Could someone point me in the direction of that industry? I’d like some of that.

    Obviously buying crayfish is not the right business. Although we do have a sea view-not like the Amalfi coast or the Cinque Terra or Capri or Sorrento, though. Sigh. Italy is wonderful. And what a bonus-Italian food!!!

    I do have a house in Robe, which is very scenic. It overlooks the bay, the boat haven and the open sea. And to think everyone thought my parents were insane to build a house in that location-too far from the pub!! Lol.

    And how clever of me to be an only child, so I didn’t have to fight off greedy and rapacious siblings! No doubt my future grandchildren will sell it. No emotional attachment.

  168. What makes anyone think this tool from the IMF (7:30 Report) knows any more about what’s going to happen to the world economy than the boy who delivers my paper? They’ve already changed their prophesy five times in the last six months. Puhlease.

  169. I agree Tony.

    Beware middle-aged men in suits delivering sombre predictions on the state of the world economy.

    They have about as much idea of what’s going to happen in 2010 as well anybody else really (including the paper boy).

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