FBT – the stupidity of it all

On the weekend I was chatting to a mate who said that the previous weekend he drove to Canberra and back for no other reason than he needed to get up more kilometres on his car  or he would not reach the minimum number of kilometres on his novated leased car, or he would be slugged with the Fringe Benefits Tax.

Now this seems completely stupid if you ask me. We have a country where we import a lot of fuel, where the climate is supposedly suffering from the carbon emissions, where companies and people are suffering due to the GFC – and what are people doing? Driving around wasting petrol and money to avoid paying a tax! Bizzare.

I wonder if anyone has done any analysis of the kilometres driven by leased cars to see how many kilometres were made in the last month of the year to see how many are driving and wasting resources just to avoid the FBT?

Why does the government persist with this stupid situation?

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154 Responses

  1. Ha !

    Sorry to break the news to you Joni but this has been going on since the intro of FBT in 1985.

    I’ve done it and I suspect everyone who has had a “company vehicle” has also done it as it can make a huge difference.

    PS. Your mate needs to have done his trip prior to 31 March in order for him to include those kilometres. Otherwise he’s lyin’ to the ATO.

  2. IATW – I know it has been going on for a long while… but it is still stupid!

  3. IATW – I know it has been going on for a long while… but it is still stupid!

    joni, on April 20th, 2009 at 1:31 pm Said:

    Well the logic behind the way it is calculated is that a “company vehicle” is more likely to do more kms than a “private vehicle”.

    So “legitimacy” is added to your vehicle the more you drive it annually. So the more you drive it the lower the tax rate.

  4. Yes, I’ve seen people do equally stupid things to keep their kms up and FBT down.

    How much congestion in peak hour is due to people having to keep their kms up?

    I always think most that drive from Sydney’s north shore to the CBD are just driving because the FBT structure makes this the rational decision. It is always quicker to go by public transport.

    The FBT has a stupid structure, it promotes road congestion, increases carbon emission, and reduces public transport patronage.

    Some from of sliding scale, rather than specific trigger points, would resolve much of the problem.

  5. Tom. Completely agree.

  6. There is an indirect benefit in the FBT and tax exemptions for Novated leases in that it encourages the purchase of new cars which has its own benefits.

    I’d never thought of the congestion problems until Tom raised it. I guess it probably would.

    Unless the car is fully packaged and the employer pays all the fuel and serviocing costs, I would suggest that it is a false economy for people to drive the extra Kms just to save on FBT. These people should probably see an accountant to crunch the numbers as to whether the money they spend on the extra fuel actually outweighs the FBT saving. Unless the car is worth over $50K I suspect it mightn’t.

    Disclaimer: I do have a car on novated lease and easily do my 25000km/yr without the need for any extra trips. If it wasn’t for my novated lease I also wouldn’t be getting any Rudd bonus so it has paid off this fin year!!

  7. Dave – I’ve been amazed that the government has not even considered reforming FBT re motor vehicles as part of their ‘carbon pollution reduction’ policy.

    There is a direct contradiction between the way this tax operates and policy objectives.

    The government needs to get on top of this stupidity.

  8. Tom

    I agree – it would make sense. I suspect this will come out of the Henry Review.

    Of course if there is a price placed on carbon which applies to fuel (which there won’t under the scheme because of the dumb populist position the Government took following on from Nelson’s 5c fuel excise reduction proposal – which BTW I think is the only solid policy position the Coalition have released although I could be mistaken) then the FBT process wouldn’t need to be adjusted beacuse the extra cost would counter the FBT gains to some extent making it less viable.

    I still think that there should be Gov’t subsidies for public transport in the form of Cth rebates or tax concessions for quarterly, half yearly and annual tickets. This would put guaranteed cash in the pockets of the State Government which they could invest in the infrastructure (which badly needs it) and it has climate change benefits.

  9. I’ve done it, in one particular year where I was ill for a while so the car travelled less. We just took a week’s holiday in March and went somewhere interesting about 500km away. Good excuse in that case, seeing we don’t take enough holidays 🙂

    I’m told in March a bunch of the traffic on George St (?) in the Sydney CBD is public servants taking cars for a pointless drive up and down to get the kms up.

    For my situation (25-30,000km/year most years, medium size mid-range car) I find that the novated vehicle lease itself is barely worth the paperwork – it ends up being a similar after-tax cost either way. It’s the packaged fuel (and perhaps maintenance, if they don’t jack up the price of it) that really makes it worth it – you pay for it in pre-tax dollars, and FBT doesn’t attach to it.

    A sliding scale would make this so much more sensible. Mind you, if the US experience is anything to go by you’d still have plenty of people putting kms on to “save tax”. There’s a whole bunch of people over there trying to get their income below $250,000 so that their “tax rate doesn’t go up”, not understanding that the higher rate only applies to income above $250,000 and their schemes leave them with less money.

  10. Tom, I hardly think that novated leases are the reason behind traffic congestion. I have a novated lease and I drive to work. Before obtaining my vehicle on a lease I had my own car, and I used it to – drum roll – drive to work.

  11. Miglo, I think you have missed the point, unsurprisingly.

    If there is a tax benefit for driving 25,000 km per year, people will seek opportunities to drive 25,000 kms.

    This means they will drive to work in preference to using public transport, they will simply use their car more often and use it unnecessarily.

    Because there is a financial incentive to do so.

    Though given that public transport in Canberra is effectively non existent, I doubt whether you have an option anyway.

  12. Miglo, I think you have missed the point, unsurprisingly.

    Well Tom, maybe you should try desrcibing things more accurately instead of always talking in riddles.

  13. Well Tom, maybe you should try desrcibing things more accurately instead of always talking in riddles.

    Perhaps so – it’s certainly easy to misunderstand someone else online. (Don’s flak jacket for stepping in to someone else’s conversation 😉

    And maybe you should avoid presuming that a particular instance proves a generality, specifically presuming that “everyone does exactly the same as me”.

    Kamahl: Indeed – we need to be less unkind. Online comments miss the inflections that normal speech can convey.

  14. Lotharsson, Tom and I have a history of always taking the micky out of each other.

    I could state there are 24 hours in a day, and Tom will come back with a point to the contrary, as would I.

    We enjoy it. Please don’t take it serously. Just accept that Tom talks rubbish.

  15. And a bitch slap to Kamahl.

  16. Ouch! How did you know it was me?

  17. A lucky guess. Mind you, it’s the only luck I’ve had lately.

  18. If there is a tax benefit for driving 25,000 km per year, people will seek opportunities to drive 25,000 kms.

    Exactly, and for these greedy people tax benefits are far more important than lessening the environmental impact (and other people’s lungs) from their fuel emissions – never mind uselessly clogging up the roads just so the km tick over!

    It really astounds me just how far people will go and how actively they pursue tax evasion.

    If their income is so big that they actively seek any way that they can to avoid paying their fair share of tax, then they really don’t need this welfare which very likely is paid at the expense of other much needed public programs.

  19. Kitty, I have a novated lease and I negatively gear a property.

    I’m starting to feel unloved on this thread.

  20. Exactly, and for these greedy people

    They’re not greedy (not for doing this, anyway). They are being inconvenienced by a poorly designed section of the tax code.

    It really astounds me just how far people will go and how actively they pursue tax evasion.

    It’s not tax evasion. It’s compliance .

    they really don’t need this welfare which very likely is paid at the expense of other much needed public programs

    It’s not welfare. It’s a tax.

  21. Kitty, I have a novated lease and I negatively gear a property.

    I’m starting to feel unloved on this thread.

    I loves ya migs, but you sure do make it hard! 🙂

    I heard that with the low interest rates these days, it’s too hard for the investors to negative gear, they are now happy to positive gear.

  22. Man slaps Miglo for bitch slapping Kamahl(camel).

    Tony i think Kitty has a point.
    If they know what to do to get a free dollar in the end its a form off handout.

    I hate these types of laws cause i dont take advangtage of them, damn it. i should be more productive and find ways to get the free dollar im entitled too.

  23. Miglo i think you should give the car back and walk.

    better yet give it to me so you don’t have the burden or guilt.

  24. It’s not welfare. It’s a tax.

    If the whole idea is to avoid your tax obligations by falsely minimising your actual income, then the nation is not getting the advantage of your tax dollars in the system. Seems like welfare for the wealthy to me.

    Then there’s the people who do not have the opportunity to do the same, are they paying too much tax to compensate for the evaders?

  25. Hi Aquanut,

    Long time no talk.

    I don’t see tax deductions as handouts, and if these people didn’t take these seemingly extreme measures, they would miss out on legitimate deductions for the miles thay had already travelled.

  26. Tony i feel for them.

    I nearly tried betting on the dogs while in sydney but thought stuff it, the rabbit always wins.

  27. the rabbit always wins.

    Lol, nearly always. I once saw a greyhound jump the rail, run across the inside of the track, jump the rail again, and catch the bunny. Very funny.

  28. Tony i could off claimed all my diving gear over the years which would almost cost a house but not once, i made enough money to cover my expenses. silly me i know.
    i also dont wont bank intrest which would help me out an extra amount i could do a lot with in terms of hobbies again im the looser but am happy with the position my brain makes me take.

    I dont expect others to do the same but i have to position to call them greedy when they go that extra MILE to get free money

  29. #jump the rail again, and catch the bunny.

    That would make the night. That dog should win something for tactics.

  30. Aqua,

    Everybody should pay their fair share of tax, and we don’t get to decide what’s fair for us, because it’s set out in the tax code. We should pay exactly that much tax, including any and all available deductions, whether we like it or not. No more, no less.

  31. There are certain things i cant disagree with and your last line is one of those.

    But some thing they deserve more then others and reach for it. I must note they may not be struggling financially either.

  32. Kitty, I’ve never been big on negative gearing because it means you’re making a loss. This particular property is only making a loss because I charge a reduced rent as the tenant is a single, enemployed mother.

    She looks after the property so I am happy for her to stay there. If she does leave one day, I will certainly increase the rent to the current market rate for that type of house.

    And you are correct about the lower interest rates making it harder to negatively gear. IMO it’s a great time to buy.

    In regards to novated leases, does anybody realise how many hundreds of millions of dollars they bring to the car industry? There is an economic benefit that is immeasuable.

    Aqua, I don’t feel guilty about anything. I’m sqeaky clean.

    Your rabbit comment was a gem BTW.

  33. Mig’s i want you to feel guilty about nothing.
    But while im joking around i just might blame you for anything while im here and the door is open.
    I know youd take up the chance.

  34. If your offended i fold and take it all back, if not i take you by the moustache and …..(provided you have one, if not you should).

  35. You might as well blame me Aqua. It’ll give me some good practice at being the blame about something. I go back to work tomorrow to face a mad boss who likes to blame me for everything, even when it’s her fault.

    Poor me.

  36. This particular property is only making a loss because I charge a reduced rent as the tenant is a single, enemployed mother.

    You’re a good landlord migs, I’m sure the mum is very grateful.

  37. No, poor me.
    Im left here to figure ways out to put you down and thats a hard job in its self. Brain has to work, think of others for a change.

    😉

  38. Go for it Aqua. Put the daggers in. I’m off to bed anyway, getting an early night to be better prepared for the boss from hell in the morning (and the rest of the day).

    Thank f*ck I’m changing jobs in a couple of weeks.

  39. What have I missed this time?

    Aque, I thought you had drowned.

  40. What have I missed this time?

    Aqua, I thought you had drowned.

  41. Angel, apparently I’m a capitalist pig and Aqua wants me deported.

  42. Yes, I read about your family TREE. So, not legal, like me huh? And from all those years ago. You had better watchout, he might be dug up. (no offense intended)

    You look like a duck to me.

  43. You look like a duck to me.

    Maybe he flew south for the winter.

  44. Angel, apparently I’m a capitalist pig and Aqua wants me deported.

    That’s old, we now refer to them as ‘wealth crazed pricks’. WCP’s are the type of ‘illegal’ that Australians allow and even manage to turn a blind eye to, so you are safe migs.

    In regards to novated leases, does anybody realise how many hundreds of millions of dollars they bring to the car industry? There is an economic benefit that is immeasuable.

    No need to justify your tax avoidance to us migs, whatever gets you through the night! It must be some sacrifice to drive a new car every couple of years just to support the car industry 😉

    It’s not tax evasion. It’s compliance

    Compliance is driving in your usual, normal routine and accepting whatever penalty or benefit arises.

    Evasion is when you deliberately go out of your way to add to your usual driving routine just to meet the requirements and receive a benefit.

  45. Miglo – The most stupid point in this discussion is that novation of a lease is about as expensive as owning a car and claiming the tax benefits for use of it.

    The foolishness is the arbitrage of kms usage to reduce the tax take. This is a false saving.

  46. It must be some sacrifice to drive a new car every couple of years just to support the car industry

    Kitty, I’m 54 and I’d never had a new car until 6 months ago. I’ll be keeping this car for at least 4 years. And I didn’t get the car just to help the auto industry. I read somewhere over Xmas that novated leases have been worth about $2b to the Australian economy, for which I don’t have a link.

    The foolishness is the arbitrage of kms usage to reduce the tax take. This is a false saving.

    That might be so for those who set themselves unrealistic mileage targets. I have not done that Tom. Again you make presumptions.

    But getting back to topic . . . joni, your friend that drove to Canberra and back in order to avoid an FBT slug, is a bit confused. The FBT year ends in March. He should have driven to Canberra and back by then.

  47. Ducky,

    Remember that my friend told me the story when I was coming down with my horrendous-debilitating-megaserious-man-flu – and so maybe he told me that it was a few weeks ago that he did the drive to Canberra.

  48. No assumption here Miglo.

    The tax structure provides a financial incentive for people to drive their cars more.

    If a person saves money by driving 25,000 kms (than say 15,000) each year, many will find ways of driving more clogging up roads at peak hour.

    Or they’ll unnecessarily drive to Canberra for example, as Joni points out.

    And the no reason that anyone would drive to Canberra for pleasure.

  49. Tom, I don’t drive 25,000 ks in a year. I only drive to work and back once a day, as most people do, so it’s not only novated lease vehicles that clog up the roads.

    As a guess I’d say that 5% of all cars in Canberra are with a novated lease. That means that a whole 95% of cars that are not novated are clogging up our roads at peak hour.

    Ninety five per cent! That’s a hell of a lot.

  50. Tom of Melbourne,

    The beauty of a Novated lease is that you don’t have to use it for work trips. I agree that the tax deductions from using a personal car for work would outweigh any Novated Lease savings but I would think that most novated cars aren’t used very much for business use.

    Unless you will genuinely do more than 25K / year (ie no ‘extra’ trips needed to get up your kms), I would suggest that a Novated lease proably isn’t the smartest financial decision.

  51. Sensational news Miglo.

    No need to do anything. Because Miglo thinks there are only about 500,000 cars on our roads being driven unnecessarily- encouraged by our stupid FBT scale.

    Carbon trading is a so much more effective way of reducing emissions.

  52. Tom, I was actually trying to point out how ridiculous your comments have been. Unsurprisingly, it went straight over your head.

    I’m guilty of thinking you were smart enough to catch on.

    I must remember in future that I’m trying to communicate with a hypocritical dunce.

    I. Will. Spell. Things. Out. More. Clearly. For. You. Next. Time.

  53. And if you do not use it enough then it classed as a Fringe Benefit – and driving it to avoid it being as a fringe benefit. Which is why it is stupid and why (IMHO) the tax should be changed.

  54. Hehehehehehehehehehe…..!

    It’s always funny watching Tom upset someone.

    In this case it’s Miglo’s turn today….!

  55. I think you’re half right Joni. I’m sure that there are people who abuse the system, but I can assure you I am not one of those. People who live in the city would be struggling to do 25,000 ks a year.

    And I do think I should b able to drive my car to work! So not only am I a property investor who has a novated lease, but I also drive to work.

    I also support unions.

  56. Walrus, Tom doesn’t upset me. He bemuses me. We also stir each other, which is what I’ve been doing on this thread.

    He simple jumps into the pot and lets me stir. He’s so obliging. I think it’s because his IQ is remarkably low.

  57. Mmmmm………!

    Your serve Tom..!

  58. Larvatus Prodeo has a thread up on FBT, and there is a link to a report which that there is a “a survey suggesting a substantial proportion of salary-packaged cars are deliberately driven just to ensure that distance thresholds for FBT concessions are met”.

  59. Your serve Tom..!

    Walrus, Tom has ran out of balls.

  60. Ah Joni, your comments – after listening to Tom – make you appear an intellectual giant.

    I think you are.

  61. Miglo – “I was actually trying to point out how ridiculous your comments have been.”

    Mine? You’re the one owing up to –

    • Taking advantage of a tax dodge, but then not even using it effectively!
    • Suggesting that there are 500,000 novated lease cars on Australian roads – that the government encourages to be driven more than necessary.
    • Dismissing the excessive carbon this produces.
    • Showing a particularly narrow self interest by neglecting to support policy that encourages greater use of public transport.

    It is a bad day for you, no wonder you make your boss grumpy.

  62. But only because I see the view from standing on the shoulders of other giants.

    (and Min, the Vaporub is doing it’s job, but the boyf says that I now smell like his Chinese granny).

  63. Tom, exactly where did I say that I was taking advantage of a tax dodge?

    The only advantage I have . . . is over you.

    And where did I say that 500,000 lease cars are being encouraged by the government to be driven more than necessary?

    And where did I dismiss the excess carbon?

    But you are right on one thing: I do want to drive to work, and I take others with me, which must surely reduce carbon emissions.

    Please come back to me with evidence and facts. Your tripe is becoming a bit boring. You’re playing that broken record again.

  64. Miglo – “Tom has ran out of balls.”

    Occasionally I have to make some money.

    I have taken the opportunity to post below, just for you, Miglo.

    http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/04/21/what-should-get-canned-in-the-budget/

  65. Tom and Miglo – please play the ball not the person.

  66. Tom and Miglo..

    Forget about what Joni said…

    Can we get some relentless profane personal abuse with some vile vindictive curses cast against each other’s family members….?

    (Just for entertainement’s sake you understand)…

    🙂

    Kamahl the Moderator: Why are you so unkind? Back to the topic please…

  67. Reb, did you also poke spider holes with a stick when you were a kid?

  68. Actually, back on topic…

    If you thought the FBT was crazy, howabout the State Government here in Tasmania?

    Here, the State Government has just replaced its entire fleet of ministerial vehicles.

    And in a show of support for Australia’s fledgling motor vehicle industry, the State Government has opted for an entirely new fleet consisting of Audi’s, Mercedes and BMWs.

    Not one Australian made car amongst them. Now that’s gotta be a vote winner!

  69. That was nasty Tom. You’ve reached a new low.

    But . . .

    You may have encouraged new peopel to come over to Blogocrats who will no doubt observe for themselves rather early in their exploration that you are a complete goose.

    What lovely irony. You might as well have said “Come over to Blogocrtas and laugh at me”.

  70. No Joni,

    but I did blow up crickets in matchboxes with firecrackers.

    Does that count?

    (Obviously you haven’t read which Roman Emperor I am over at Facebook, nor my psychiatric disorder…)

  71. I blew up neighbours mail boxes with bungers 🙂

  72. Reb, I drive an Australian made car.

    And you may recall Tom previously stating that he wants a Mercedes.

    Now, if I’m going to clog up the traffic I’d rather do it in an Australian made vehicle.

  73. Tom,

    Like the LP comment. Very funny.

  74. “Like the LP comment. Very funny”

    Me too. Good work Tom!

    LOL…

  75. What about this insane fee in NSW

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25364452-29277,00.html

  76. I have a picture of me having a dong, but it looks nothing like that.

  77. LOL reb LOL

  78. Lol miglo,
    That was funny.

    Good idea Shane,
    Maybe joni can put that one up next week
    top 50 silly things we did when children or was that last weekend that you did that 😉

    I cant see you driving hours on end trying to rack up klm’s, besides i feel you get the bad end of the stick at work instead of benefits.

  79. but I did blow up crickets in matchboxes with firecrackers. From Reb at: reb, on April 21st, 2009 at 1:46 pm.

    Well no wonder the Aussie cricket team has been struggling.

  80. Great idea – Top Five “most stupid things you did as a kid that should have killed you (and/or someone else)”.

  81. Shane, I have a great story for you. Many years ago the weekly Whyalla news had a front page story about the Mayor’s home made letter box. It was made completely out of matches (16,000 matchea), was a 1/16th replica of his house, and took many thousand of hours to make.

    The photo on the front page showed the mayor leaning proudly against the letter box with the house in the background. By all accounts, it was impressive.

    The postman opened a little door in the front veranda in which he inserted the mail, and the mayor would open a door in the bathroom to collect the mail.

    How stupid was the man to complete the momentous task on the eve of Guy Fawkes Day.

    A mate of mine – along with his brother – stuffed the thing with threepenny bombers and blew the living shit out of it.

    That resulted in the mayor’s letterbox making teh apper the following week, but for all the wrong reasons.

    I met the mayor many years later and it was hard to keep a straight face. I didn’t have the heart to tell him I knew who blew the crap out of his letterbox.

    Joni – great photo. Who could trust a bloke with a face like that?

  82. Shane..hubby has the claim to fame of having set fire to Snake Hill (Wattle Park Vic)..age 8yrs that is.

  83. OI ! Everyone wait for Sunday!

    Or I will transfer the man-flu germs through your keyboard and infect you all.

  84. joni, on April 21st, 2009 at 1:56 pm Said:
    Great idea – Top Five “most stupid things you did as a kid that should have killed you (and/or someone else)”.

    Excellent idea..hands up, and the ayes have it.

  85. “Like the LP comment. Very funny”

    Me too. Good work Tom!

    LOL…

    And just who’s side are you on?

  86. That is a great idea. Top 5 things we did as kids, the memories will come flooding back and no doubt some good belly laughs for us all.

    Aqua

    You are correct I would not drive many kms simply to rack up fringe benefits. I do not have a novated lease. I own a 2002 Magna and it has to last me for many years yet so the less kms the longer I can keep her.

    Miglo

    A matchbox replica of his house as a mail box. Just ripe for Cracker Night Boom Boom. God I miss cracker night 🙂

  87. Not a chance joni as I have smothered the keyboard with Vicks Vaporub and am also eating lots of garlic. This should keep a man-flu germs at a suitable distance.

  88. Miglo, you are a self confessed tax rorter, and you drive a hot muscle car structured as another tax dodge.

    Own up!

    What colour is your car? Lime greens or metallic blue? Does it have fat tyres? Spoilers and one of those little steering wheels? When did the police last impound your car under anti hoon legislation?

    We need to know exactly what type of shameless tax rorter, carbon emission encourager, anti public transport petrol head you really are!!

    Come clean Miglo.

  89. Min and Joni

    There are 2 great ideas there.

    1) The things you did that nearly killed you
    2) The 5 stupid/yet hilariously funny things we did as a kid.

  90. Min – unless i slip in the tongue. hehe

  91. Shane..me too re cracker night. We now ‘celebrate’ American things such as St Valentine’s, Halloween and even Thanksgiving but where did cracker night disappear to.

  92. “And just who’s side are you on?”

    Whoever happens to be sending me samplers of Shiraz.

    And I haven’t seen any with “To reb from Miglo” on the box for a long time.

  93. Min

    It disappeared under the do gooders banner due to injuries sustained by a few kids. The problem today is we ban anything and everything where a child could get injured and as a result they are driven to other entertainment like alcohol, drugs and low self esteem being kept indoors and wrapped like cotton wool.

    Parents now won’t even let their kids climb a tree.

  94. Shane..Guy Fawkes Night disappeared eons ago due to kids loosing fingers and such. And maybe because it was a celebration of trying to blow up Parliament by a Catholic activiist. However, it’s never been replaced with anything Australian..just all this American blah which has no basis in our culture.

  95. Min

    I had never heard of it being called Guy Fawkes Night. I only ever knew it as cracker night. As for eons ago I am not that old ( or I didn’t think I was ) I remember it until I was around 13 or 14.

  96. Min

    What do you suggest we replace it with that would creat the same fun, excitement and a bit of mischief as well for the kids of today.

  97. “What do you suggest we replace it with that would creat the same fun, excitement and a bit of mischief as well for the kids of today.”

    Eccy night?

  98. And I haven’t seen any with “To reb from Miglo” on the box for a long time.

    Reb, that’s because I’m having trouble finding some 2002 Coriole Shiraz or other quality premiums. Would a man of your taste settle for anything less?

  99. Quite right Miglo, quite right…

    Maybe we could send it straight to the Hobart Pathology to save me from having to go through sheer hell again.

  100. oh and “taste” and “distinction” I might add…

    (Can’t forget the distinction..)

  101. reb

    Eccy night ?

  102. shaneinqld, on April 21st, 2009 at 2:39 pm Said:
    Min

    What do you suggest we replace it with that would creat the same fun, excitement and a bit of mischief as well for the kids of today.

    Maybe Eureka Day? Maybe Reconciliation Day?

    Good grief, surely we have something to celebrate!!

  103. Eccy night?

    Or, as they’re known in certain circles around here, flippers. (The etymology of which I can only surmise is: eccy–>eggy–>egg flip–>flipper.)

  104. Tony,

    Well at least you wouldn’t have to spend so much money on fireworks. Just hand them a packet of sparklers and that should keep them entertained for hours..

  105. Rofl @ Reb.

  106. Own up!

    What colour is your car?

    Tom of Melbourne, on April 21st, 2009 at 2:03 pm Said:

    So come on Miglo………………..what colour is it ?

    I reckon it’s a beige Chyrsler 300C ?

    With a tan interior !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  107. inside Migs’ car

    it is tan inside!

  108. The colour is called lightning stike, which is sort of silvery, and the interior is black leather. The car is a Ford G6E.

    But it doesn’t have a TV like reb hoped.

  109. My apologies Migs……………..I see it’s an Australian “Muscle Car”……………………Must be a beige Mitsubishi 380 then…………………..The GT version of course…..!

    Hehehehehehehehehehe…………..!

    And Reb……….that is one of the most revolting car interiors I’ve ever seen………what is it ?

  110. And I suppose Tom drives a Leyland P76.

  111. No idea Walrus…

    You’re not a fan of beige then I take it…?

    Maybe it would appeal to TB…

    speaking of which, where is the new sparkling toothed one…?

  112. Nah

    I reckon Tom’s a “Grandeur” man…!

    🙂

  113. Miglo, stopping in Canberra on our way to the snow in August.

    Can you recommend a good hotel, not far away from the sandpit?

  114. I reckon Tom drives around in his mum’s Datsun 180B

  115. speaking of which, where is the new sparkling toothed one…?

    And the VJ whose name I can’t recall, but it starts with N’.

  116. I drive a 1990 Nissan Pulsar..none too pretty, but she gets me where I want to go. I very reliable old gal.

  117. Scaper, there are only one or two good hotels that I know of. Are you after a motel to stay at, or a pub to drink at? What’s the sandpit?

  118. Nah Walrus. It’s an old Morris. Here’s a photo of Tom and a couple of mates.

  119. Migs……………..that’s a classic.

    OK………..you win…………..so we’ve established the type of car he drives..!

    Now for the next competition………………………

    Where are Tom and his mates off to in the Morris ………………..?

  120. Wait a minute I know………………….!

    A meeting of the HR Nicholls Society

  121. Migs,

    And here I was thinking that this was your car … or perhaps this one

  122. Walrus, Tom was off to catch up with mates.

  123. Miglo, I call Parliament House the sandpit, when I’m in a polite mood.

    I thought the joint would have more than two good hotels (accommodation) and I have had only two glasses of wine in the last three months and not one Cuban.

    What does one drink with a cigar that is not alcoholic???

  124. Wow Dave, a duckmobile. Much faster than the batmobile.

  125. Scaper, a cup of tea of course.

    There’s a reasonable motel near the sandpit (and the Lodge) called the Embassy. I don’t think it’s 5 star but it passes just the same.

    I know people who have stayed there and there haven’t been any complaints.

  126. What does one drink with a cigar that is not alcoholic???

    Where can you buy alcoholic cigars?

    Or do you mean the cigars drink too much?

  127. Miglo, thanks, I”ll check it out.

    Tea wouldn’t do it for me, I’ll give a very strong brew of coffee a go.

  128. Miglo

    Wow Dave, a duckmobile. Much faster than the batmobile.

    I’d go pretty fast too if I had a guy with a shotgun aimed at me permanently stuck on my arse.

    Not too sure about visability though ….

  129. I picked up one of these for my surgically enhanced mistress.

    Nothing like a few distress sales during a recession!

  130. Tom, I’m not sure that your choice of vehicle is suited for the Tanami, the Canning or indeed anywhere but the leafy suburbs of Melbourne. Perhaps your mistress is not into adventure as well? Never mind.

    Might be time for a new, enhanced model. A model with both a high range and low range as well as diff locks for when the hard grind is desired.

    And keep away from the white leather upholstery.

  131. Tom, here’s a little exercise for you. You know what car I drive, a Ford G6E. I don’t know what you drive, but go onto Google and see who drives the “greener” car – you or me. I’m confident of winning.

  132. N5 – there is no way my mistress (or even my wife) would be interested in visiting red dirt and scrub.

    The so called roads result in excessive jiggling of the surgically enhanced womanhood. With a fly density of about 500 per cubic metre the scarlet nail polish is difficult to apply.

    No, we prefer Portsea in January and Cote d’Azur in July.

    Miglo, I can see you’re a petrol head hoon, driving around in a carbon pollution spewing V8. Not only that but you’ve structured it as a tax dodge.

    Don’t pretend to be green. My cars are very friendly environmentally. They’re recycled, picked up from over extended, over geared, tax dodgers. Very green.

  133. Tom, a G6E is not a V8. It is not even a V6. It’s a straight 6.

    And me a petrol head hoon!!! That’s almost funny. A G6E is a family saloon car.

    You aren’t very good at Googling. What are you good at?

  134. Miglo, it’s about time you owned up.

    We know you’re a self confessed tax dodging property speculator and slum lord, that you arrange your income to allow you to drive a petrol guzzling hoon car with fat wheels as another tax dodge.

    The football team you support are traditionally selected from those making bail applications at the Alberton Magistrates Court.

    I think you mean that the car you drive would be driven by hoon families to the saloon.

  135. I’m wondering if this is an appropriate time to tell you Tom that I’m in the market for another investment property.

    The tax I’m saving from my string of bottom of the harbour schemes makes your annual income look like a pittance.

    I’m only assuming, of course, that your income is low. You don’t strike me as a person with enough intellect to command a good salary.

  136. You public servants kill me. You stick with this absurd idea that intellect and remuneration have some direct relationship. Hardly and only in the most tenuous manner.

    No, I’m not the salary earning type.

    I do know some people with a very powerful intellect, and they don’t even earn anywhere near 250k! I can scarcely believe it either! They’re public servants.

  137. Miglo, on April 21st, 2009 at 10:30 pm Said:

    Possibly correct.

    But care to speculate on his consultancy fees?

    After all his many mistresses wouldn’t come cheap. And I suspect he wouldn’t be a tosser either.

    Miglo, if I am allowed to make a suggestion. Don’t cast pejorative aspersions on Tom’s intellect.

  138. No N5, any mistresses I have are very cheap, but hardly inexpensive.

    But don’t reflect too poorly on Miglo, it is a little tough for him at the moment.

    Consider this, he’s a tax dodging slum lord that drives a hoon car, he supports a hoon footy team, he lives in Canberra (apparently voluntarily!), his boss (a woman!) is grumpy with him.

    No wonder he is a little sensitive at the moment.

    But that’s it from me for now.

  139. N5, Your post at 10:43 has lost me.

    And I’ll make as many aspersions on Tom as I see fit. Have a look at the claims he makes against me in his post at 10:56.

    I can see how you get on Tony’s nerves.

  140. Hi Miglo

    You seem awfully grumpy about this subject.

    It isn’t my fault that you’ve been attracted to a fuel guzzling hoon car on the basis of an artificial FBT benefit.

    By now you’ll realise that the car will only (possibly) be worth the residual value on the lease. Depreciation is very steep on these big cars.

    On the other hand, for the same price as your petrol guzzling hoon car, you could purchase a quality recycled car. One that has completed the initial steep depreciation.

    If you had a quality car like this on a novated lease, the car will be worth far more than its residual at the conclusion of the lease. You can acquire a good asset through this process, rather than a used lemon.

    You’ll really have to do much better next time to become an effective rorter of the tax system.

    Regards

    Tom

  141. Miglo…………….Your serve !!!!!!!!

  142. Tom, oh righteous one, your post of 10:17 am broke new ground for you as you actually displayed the ability to apply thought. Admittedly it wasn’t logic, but some small resemblence of thought was proudly noted.

    Sadly, the thought processes still managed to produce bullshit.

    Has it ever dawned on you that I bought that particular car for reasons that suit me, and not for you? My wife was injured some years ago in an accident (we were hit by a drunk) and she still has a bit of fear when we are on the open road. Hence we bought the G6E because of its safety features.

    Sure, there are safer cars around but they are beyond our price range.

    And further, you keep squawking that novated leases are no good. Do you have one? I do, and I like them.

    In our blogging history you’ve complained about:

    My choice of residence.
    My choice of car.
    My choice of car finance.
    My choices as an investor.
    My choice of football team.
    My choice of occupation.
    My choice of political leaning.

    You obviously enjoy a whinge.

    Walrus, driving home up the highway after work an old FJ was screaming up behind me. I thought it might have been the serial whinger.

    .
    .
    KAMAHL THE MODERATOR: Tom hasn’t complained about your choice in wine though. May be that’s one thing that you might both share some common ground?

  143. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm………..!

    Can we have a wine thread today then ?

  144. Is that all? It wasn’t actually complaining, I thought it was just legitimate and well founded criticism. I’m offering you free lifestyle advice and I think you can do with plenty of it!

    You’ll find that I’ve also criticised your choice of wine and beer as well as your grammar and spelling, and your mindless pro union orientation.

    If you like hot, dusty holidays and looking at remote big rocks, I think I’ve tried pretty hard to offend that front as well.

    Hope you keeping posting, because I’m happy to continue my well informed critique.

  145. Tom hasn’t complained about your choice in wine though.

    He couldn’t.

  146. “Tom hasn’t complained about your choice in wine though.

    He couldn’t.”

    Yes I did! You provided a general criticism of the Taylors brand without exempting Jaraman Shiraz!

  147. Tom, my numerous trips to the outback weren’t holidays. They were work related. And my trips were made in government vehicles, paid by taxpayers such as yourself. Thanks for the ride.

    And now I can add my choice of lifestyle as another one of my preferences that you object to.

    Nice of you to complain about my choice of beer because I don’t even drink the stuff. You obviously do. And too much of it at that.

    And please don’t worry about having to offer me free lifestyle advice. I hardly think you have the credntials.

  148. Have to agree on tha Jaraman Tom. A fine drop for a cheap wine.
    .
    .
    Kamahl the Moderator: Fair enough. I believe there was another topic to to this thread somewhere back… FBT rings a bell…

  149. Well Miglo, I find that the best place to view remote, dusty Australia is from seat 1A on QF9, while flying to somewhere worth visiting. They serve caviar, French champagne, up the front you know! It is very comfortable. They provide a nice wine too.

    Do you fly economy? I’d also criticise that.

  150. I don’t have an ego. I fly economy. Actually, I hardly fly these days as I like to get the ks up in my novated lease hoon car.

    You also complained about my choice of motel for scaper. Your “whinge list” is growing.

  151. Hey Miglo……………………………Did you realise that a ducks’s quack is one of the few sounds that will not echo…..

    ……..and no one can figure out why.

  152. “credntials”!!! You’re right, I don’t have any of those at all.

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