Costello “Lazy, Disloyal, Unelectable” says Hewson

In what can only be described as a major body blow to Peter Costello, Malcolm Turnball and the Liberal Party, former Liberal Party Leader John Hewson has lashed out against Costello in an “open letter” published in the mainstream media attacking Costello’s style, conduct and questioning his competency as Treasurer during the halcyon years of the Howard Government.

The severity of this attack and the effect it will have on the Liberal is potentially catastrophic. Following Julie Bishop’s effective sacking from the Shadow Treasury position, Costello’s refusal to accept it and the leadership tensions that are clearly palpable between Turnbull and Costello, it would appear that Costello’s steadfast position to remain on the backbench is now becoming rapidly untenable.

This is Hewson’s letter here.

“Enough is enough. If your few remaining mates won’t tell you, I will. You’ve had a fair go. If you now won’t give others a chance and pull your weight as a member of the team, you should move on. It is most unlikely that you will ever be drafted as leader of the Liberal Party and even less likely that you will ever be prime minister.”

“You can’t go on ignoring the facts. You have only ever had a minimal support base and that base has been further and terminally eroded by your disloyalty, antics and shenanigans of the last year or so.”

“Perhaps, ironically – although I doubt that you will admit it – your best chance to be leader was when you let Alexander Downer lead the “Dream Team” that took over the leadership from me back in 1994. If not then, certainly when Downer fell over a few months later.”

“You didn’t have the balls to seize the moment then, leaving the leadership by default to John Howard. And you haven’t had the balls, or the numbers, since. It’s no use trying to argue that you had some sort of “secret” deal with Howard that he would move over for you after some “reasonable period”. You know Howard was never in any position to deliver, even if he ever recognised that he had made such a “core” promise.”

“And all that nonsense that you went on with before the last election, claiming that Ian McLachlan had carried evidence of such a “deal” in his wallet for several years, is simply that: nonsense. It was just another example of your disloyalty to the party and of your willingness to destabilise in pursuit of your personal, unattainable ambition.”

“You also know the party room is always the final arbiter in leadership matters and when a position is declared vacant there is never any shortage of those prepared to pull their batons from their knapsacks.”

“It’s also clear you have never really worked the back bench to build the numbers – some say simply because of your arrogance. Others put it down to you not wanting to be seen as having first-hand involvement, hoping to create the impression that your supporters were building the momentum. Either way, it was generally counterproductive – too smart by half.”

“Moreover, all the polling that I have ever seen or heard of – Liberal or Labor – has had you as unelectable. This should be enough to convince you but, if not, then you should have an honest look at yourself. You are bone lazy. Just count your output – press releases/conferences, speeches, electoral visits and other examples of your work ethic or “availability” – compared with, say, Paul Keating when he was treasurer.”

“I also doubt you have the skills, experience or self-confidence to have accepted the obvious job after losing the last election, namely shadow treasurer. You’d be lost without Treasury. You may have delivered 11 budgets but ask yourself honestly how many of them were actually yours, rather than Treasury’s. I am told Treasury is now drawing a sharp contrast between your little interest and involvement and that of Wayne Swan.”

“You should also recognise that your indulgent “memoirs”, released recently, did not provide the platform from which you had obviously hoped to be drafted. They were received with a yawn. They were being sold at a discount in my local bookstore in just a few days.”

“But, most importantly, they fuelled yet another round of leadership speculation, again making the Opposition the focus of exhaustive and sustained media attention, leaving the Government to skate by without scrutiny.”

“I have absolutely no doubt that you would be going ballistic if the shoe was on the other foot and you were being undermined. Both sides of politics know from painful experience that disunity is death- although, like you I’m sure, I found it a bit galling to hear Howard now saying so, having been disloyal to every leader he ever worked for.”

“Despite what the Government says, the risk and opportunity of an election this year are very real, especially if my worst fears of our economy tanking are confirmed.”

“After the damage that you have done, the best you can now do to help our chances is to leave.”

Ouch!

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256 Responses

  1. Ah! Beat me to it!

    My title was to be:

    “Well, well, Mr Custard!”

    I particularly like:

    “I also doubt you have the skills, experience or self-confidence to have accepted the obvious job after losing the last election, namely shadow treasurer.”

    “You’d be lost without Treasury. You may have delivered 11 budgets but ask yourself honestly how many of them were actually yours, rather than Treasury’s.

    “I am told Treasury is now drawing a sharp contrast between your little interest and involvement and that of Wayne Swan.”

    Vindicates just about every post we’ve made about Tip, and makes it very difficult for anyone from the right to defend him.

    Should be interesting to see if Turncoat buys into this (or any other Liberal), I should imagine Crass Pain in his new Parliamentary Management role (and dear friend of Tip) will come out whining…

    I feel happily vindicated this morning, thank you, Dr Hewson (he actually earned his Phd, BTW)

  2. Just when you think the internal fighting of the Liberal party has reached a climax they find more ways to self-destruct.

    As they say, this is so delicious it must be fattening.

  3. And did anyone catch the UK journalist and publisher Andrew Neil on Lateline last week? Here is part of what he said:

    I think the first thing you’ve got to do if you’ve just suffered a bad defeat at the polls is you’ve got to decontaminate the brand; you’ve got to get rid of the reasons why people didn’t like you in the first place; why people kicked you out.

    Even though his politics differ from mine I’ve always enjoyed his comments.

  4. Poor Tip.

    Hewson’s critique echoes just about everything Keating ever said about him, all wrapped-up in one neat little package.

    Liked the casual swipe at Howard too:

    “I found it a bit galling to hear Howard now saying (that disunity is death), having been disloyal to every leader he ever worked for..”

    Niiice. And accurate.

    After all, that’s how he got the nickname “The Rodent”.

  5. Singing this morning!

    After all the abuse the cowardly Custard Tip has dished out to others over the years, it is good to see him getting some back.

    I’m sure it won’t be the last.

    “Oh what a beautiful morning, oh what a beautiful day …”

  6. I think the first thing you’ve got to do if you’ve just suffered a bad defeat at the polls is you’ve got to decontaminate the brand; you’ve got to get rid of the reasons why people didn’t like you in the first place; why people kicked you out.

    The rodent has gone, Dolly Downer and Mal Rough. But they can never get rid of the stench of SerfChoices.

    They will say it’s dead, and the first thing the government will say is,

    “They said that about the GST too.”

  7. I think the Liberal party are suffering from a severe identity crisis.

    It appears they still haven’t come to terms with the real reasons they were booted out of office at the last election, what with Joe Hockey repeating the old Howard mantra that we’ve never been better off and Tony Abbott making bumbling gaffes whenever he opens his reptilian gob.

    Their predicament, is that they have very little issues to stand upon.

    So far the Government is being universally praised for its handling of the GFC.

    It’s very difficult for the Opposition to gain traction on this issue. If they oppose the Government’s iniatives, they do so at their peril.

    The old Liberal party mantra of free markets, capitalism and politics of the individual no longer resonate in a society where the majority of people are wondering whether they will have a job in 3 or 6 months time.

    The Liberal party need to reinvent themselves in order to regain some sense of credibility and relevance in today’s social and economic environment, however it seems they are incapable of doing so.

    So long as they have elements of the old guard – Hockey, Abbott and Costello trotting out the same old mantra of their beloved Howard then they will be forever destined to remain in the shadowy corners of
    irrelevance.

  8. Turnbull’s now got a similar problem to what Rees has in NSW

  9. Just read the Hewson letter…couldn’t stop saying things like, Jesus, wow, bloody hell!

    How about the chestnuts in these paragraphs?

    I have absolutely no doubt that you would be going ballistic if the shoe was on the other foot and you were being undermined. Both sides of politics know from painful experience that disunity is death- although, like you I’m sure, I found it a bit galling to hear Howard now saying so, having been disloyal to every leader he ever worked for.

    Despite what the Government says, the risk and opportunity of an election this year are very real, especially if my worst fears of our economy tanking are confirmed.

    Whack! JWH take that! “…having been disloyal to every leader…!”

    Predicting an election this year…

    …and as an economist (shiver) “…my worst fears of our economy tanking…”

    Hewson has nothing to gain with these statements but he will make a few enemies – I suspect he may be expressing what a few in the Liberal Party are thinking…is he still a paid up member of the LP 😀

  10. Ain’t it the truth

    “You’d be lost without Treasury. You may have delivered 11 budgets but ask yourself honestly how many of them were actually yours, rather than Treasury’s.”

  11. Be interesting to see how Tip handles this insult. While Hewson has a history of attacking his former colleagues, this one can only be described as egregious.

    Turnbull now owes Hewson big-time. Even Doctor Rodent would be celebrating. (Yes TB, Howard now has a title that puts him into the same category as Joh. Perhaps he is now one of the hated intellectual ‘elites’? Lol.)

    And while we are on the subject of the failed leadership ‘team’, when will some journalist ask either Howard or Costello what they think caused the great financial crisis.

  12. How long before the theatre of the Liberal party internecine is made into a mini series. Fancy one politician calling another politician lazy. I think they’re all on performance enhancing drugs because without them they’re a useless bunch of no-hopers.

  13. Stephan

    Would it be Seinfeld?

    The party about nothing.

  14. Nature 5

    I think they have already stated what they think caused the great financial crisis

    Basically, it isn’t happening (sort of like global warming)

    This is merely a ‘re-adjustment’

    You see, just because the financial system has crashed, and is bringing extreme hardship on people who have nothing to do with it, does not mean that it has failed, it is merely acting in the way it is designed (mind you, if I designed a plane that was suppossed to crash every few years and bring pain and torment to its passengers, I may be tempted to call that a failed plane)

    But if there was a cause, it would have to be Rudd. He won an election, and it all followed from there.

  15. when will some journalist ask either Howard or Costello what they think caused the great financial crisis

    Why, “the unions” of course. BOO!

    It’d be no point asking Custard Tip. He wouldn’t know; he was asleep at the time. And even if he did know he wouldn’t have the balls to admit it was greed and neo-liberalism, the very dogmas he and the Miserable Liberals exist for.

    As for asking Howard, if you want an honest answer, it’d only be a waste of time.

  16. N5 (and others):

    Recipients of an honorary doctorate do not normally adopt the title of “doctor.” In many countries, including the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, and the United States, it is not usual for an honorary doctor to use the formal title of “doctor,” regardless of the background circumstances for the award.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorary_degree

    …I tend yo find honorary degrees to people like JWH distasteful to say the least…

  17. Tom R, on February 22nd, 2009 at 10:31 am Said:

    “Basically, it isn’t happening (sort of like global warming)”

    Indeed! Nothing should stain the Howard history. Not even the ‘facts’. Not that Howard, Costello, Keating or Hawke realised they were submerged in an ideology now known to be unsustainable.

    TB, honorary or not, they should always be used when booking ‘flights’. An upgrade is guaranteed.

    I did note that Doctor John (Hewson variety) said that Tip would have gone ‘ballistic’ if he’d been undermined. A person without ‘balls’ going ‘ballistic’. Lol

  18. Hewson has nothing to gain with these statements but he will make a few enemies – I suspect he may be expressing what a few in the Liberal Party are thinking…is he still a paid up member of the LP 😀

    I think Hewson’s settling a few old scores. Is he a moderate? He always seemed too decent for Ratty & Co. It seems that there is open warfare at the moment between the two factions of the Libs, the fundy christian/hard right mob and the malcolm moderates.

    Wonder who is going to run to the media in support of Tip, great soap opera, can’t wait for the next episode!

  19. Kitty

    That is what I thought too. Who is going to stand up for Tip?

  20. Economically Hewson is most definitely not a moderate.

  21. “Who is going to stand up for Tip?”

    Tony Abbott?

    Hard to say. Maybe Tip’s on his own with this one…

  22. “Who is going to stand up for Tip?”

    Not necessary. As Howard said: “We are a party of the individual not the collective.” Lol.

  23. I wish Briannie was still around. It would have been fun to see how he/she would have twisted all these stories.

  24. So long as they have elements of the old guard – Hockey, Abbott and Costello trotting out the same old mantra of their beloved Howard then they will be forever destined to remain in the shadowy corners of irrelevance.

    I think you hit the nail on the head there. While Malcolm is simply blundering around some (I haven’t seen him land a decisive blow yet, though I’m willing to be corrected), the worst media problems are coming from the statements from the “old guard”.

    Abbott simply cannot believe his opinions are wrong and as such spews the same bile that lost them the last election (the “stunt” by a guy dying from asbestosis was the worst I’ve heard from an Aussie politician).

    Costello loves poking at the leadership issue, trying to keep it alive for his “second coming”. I have a feeling Hewson is right though… Costello doesn’t have the numbers internally, and his only hope is to be the last option standing (hence trying to churn through the other options as fast as possible).

    Hockey is an interesting one, but should be considered a sleeping benefit to Labour. After all, he was the guy in charge of WorkChoices at the end of the last Liberal reign. It doesn’t take a genius to imagine the television advertisements that would come with him on the front bench.

    I reckon Costello is going to keep trying to pull Malcolm down (without considering the damage to his own brand) in order to put Hockey in to lose the upcoming election. That’ll give him four years to rebuild his brand, replace the current leader and become the “saviour” of the Liberal way of life (which is, of course, ruling the masses). Don’t think it’ll work, but I bet this is somewhat similar to his game-plan

  25. I like Costello and I don’t apologise for it. There is a lot of effort put into attacking Costello by the ALP and their supporters, more than you would think they would bother with if they didn’t consider him a threat. If Hewson were seriously trying to do the right thing by the Libs he would never have written such a spiteful piece publically. I don’t know what Hewson’s agenda is, but then again, I don’t know what Keating’s is either, perhaps a hunger for relevance. Costello has been asked, and he has answered repeatedly about the Global Financial Crisis, and has a better handle on it than most.

  26. And I loved every word that Hewson wrote! And bone lazy it is, not one question and not one statement from Costello on the back bench. How many hours can he spend contemplating his navel?

    And lazy again. Is it that Costello received no job offers but rather was too lazy to accept any?

  27. James

    What has Costello actually said on the GFC? Every time he gets put that question he smirks, giggles and evades any answer.

    So please link to something he has actually said about what should be done.

  28. Min,

    He did apparently receive one job offer but could not negotiate his way to an agreement.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23906404-601,00.html
    The Australian, 23 June 2008:

    Mr Costello did get an early offer from the Australian arm of giant US investment banking group Citigroup. But this didn’t proceed in the wake of protracted arguments about how much he was worth

    So much for the WorkChoices rhetoric that employees can bargain satisfactory agreements for themselves. It’s a lie, as demonstrated by the example of one of WorkChoices architects himself.

    And this lazy creep wants to throw our kids to the sharks in the workplace (greedy Liberal-supporting “employers”)

    WorkChoices = SmirkChoices

  29. B.Tolputt..not so certain that Hockey was in charge of WorkChoices but rather that JWH put him there as the jocular salesman.

    Joe did promise to quit should a re-elected Howard government make any changes to WorkChoices. But then amazingly I didn’t see Joe quitting when Turnbull stated: http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/11/25/Oppn_wont_stand_in_way_of_WorkChoices_Turnbull

    Federal Opposition Leader Malcolm Turnbull says the coalition will not stand in the way of the government’s Fair Work bill.

    Legislation dismantling the Howard government’s controversial workplace relations regime was introduced to parliament today, honouring a Labor election promise.

    Poor old Joe..he’s just plain confusing.

  30. Seriously guys: If Mickey Mouse wrote a letter criticising any Liberal politician, you’d be hailing Mr Mouse as the next great political thinker.

    As much as I like it here, and I will no doubt upset some by saying so: this place is doing a great imitation of a left-wing echo chamber. Witness the large number of threads, and the gleeful comments, attacking the Liberal Party and its politicians. Contrast the scarcity – have there even been any? – of threads criticising Labor.

    Credit where it’s due, though: dissenting opinion is freely permitted, and any guest posts I have offered have been published promptly and cheerfully. For that I thank the administrators.

    Perhaps Blogocrats is destined to be just another left-leaning site, looking for a purpose after Labor’s election victory. But it has shown glimmers of being more than that. Personally, I had hoped it was (and think it still can be) that beacon of light I was looking for in the otherwise gloomy nastiness of political blogs in general.

    /My two bob’s worth

  31. Tony, on February 22nd, 2009 at 11:37 am Said:

    “hoped it was (and think it still can be) that beacon of light ”

    Good sentiments. But when it comes to beacons and lights, the ALP seems to have the monopoly on that symbol.

    In 1949 Chifley said:

    “It is the duty and the responsibility of the community, and particularly those more fortunately placed, to see that our less fortunate fellow citizens are protected from those shafts of fate which leave them helpless and without hope.

    That is the objective for which we are striving. It is … the beacon, the light on the hill, to which our eyes are always turned and to which our efforts are always directed.”

    Patent pending. Lol.

  32. Yeah, another brilliant piece of analysis by a political failure.

    No doubt Mark Latham is also basking in the glory of his incisive analysis of Kevin Rudd.

    That’s what has beensdo, when they crave for a little relevance.

  33. James of North Melbourne, on February 22nd, 2009 at 11:20 am

    James, I for one don’t “attack’ Custard, I laugh at him! 😀

  34. Good to see hockey off to a great start.

  35. Costello doesn’t have the numbers internally, and his only hope is to be the last option standing (hence trying to churn through the other options as fast as possible).

    I think that’s always been Tip’s problem, he doesn’t have the numbers internally and polling by both party’s has shown that he is not liked by the electorate. No-one wants him, so his only option is to have the leadership handed to him and have himself foisted upon a voting public who also despise him.

    Who says our voting system is democratic?

  36. And (yet another) opinion piece at: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/king-of-the-sandpit-losing-friends-fast-20090221-8e6w.html

    To me the important thing is that although Bishop stood down with reason given that the speculation about herself was damaging the party, that Costello seems not give a st**f about the party.

  37. “And I loved every word that Hewson wrote! And bone lazy it is, not one question and not one statement from Costello on the back bench
    Min, on February 22nd, 2009 at 11:21 am Said:”

    You know Min, there is one thing you cannot say about Australian politicians. And that is that they are lazy. They may be dishonest, they may be corrupt, they may be thinking of themselves and they may be stupid.

    But they are not lazy. Anybody who calls an Australian politician lazy is a liar.

    Costello halved the unemployment rate and paid off all the Federal govt debt. He did something no ALP politician could possibly do.

    Min you are a liar and a blind dead ALP tribal loyalist.

    PS- The only reason you leftoids keep bringing up comments about Liberal party politicians is because your heroes the ALP are doing stuff all. You do not comment about ALP politicians because they are doing nothing and there is nothing to talk about

  38. kittylitter, on February 22nd, 2009 at 4:05 pm

    Personally, I think a heavily-mediated, two-party politics breeds autocratic demagogues, not democrats or democracy. May the most successful backstabber behind closed doors, and the most opportunistic populist in public, win! But thems are the virtues of majoritarian democracy; who cares whether or not someone would do a good job or is doing a good job or did a good job, when all that counts is perceptions? I actually have no idea about Costello’s capabilities with all the stultifying back-room chicanery and the dead hand of Howard’s pall over a still-stacked inner sanctum of the party of the moribund.

    For example, is it any wonder that Costello wanted Howard to rack off for a large number of years, exactly like the bulk of the Australian populace did, only eight years too late (I allow a voting public between ’96 and ’99 to have worked out Howie’s agenda of sowing discord and fracturing society through eliminating oppositions and installing rapacious stooges…and I doubt the internal party politics were very much different)?

    I’m not sure about Dr John, former member for Wentworth, but I like to think he’s the source of red Ferrari analogies for the Australian economy

  39. PS- The only reason you leftoids keep bringing up comments about Liberal party politicians is because your heroes the ALP are doing stuff all.

    And because it is so entertaining lol

    Mind you, I wish the ALP would stop being so busy stuffing up the country doing bugger all. I thought hockeys problem was they were doing too much??? Fantastic input neil

  40. Fantastic input neil
    Tom R, on February 22nd, 2009 at 4:30 pm Said:”

    Dear Blind Dead ALP Tribal loyalist.

    In case you do not know, Daffy Duck was handed on a platter a $20B budget surplus. Most people from other countries cannot believe that our govt had a budget surplus and and no federal govt debt.

    Within 13 months we now have a $20B budget deficit and you leftoids worship Daffy Duck.

  41. Neil,

    Costello did not pay off all federal debt.

    The words they always use are “net debt”.

    If there was no federal debt, why were they still paying interest in their last budget?

  42. the party of the moribund

    I love it legion, that’s what I’m calling them from now on (if I remember).

    Red ferrari analogies and birthday cakes?

    …Through 1992, Keating mounted a campaign against the Fightback! package, and particularly against the GST, which he described as an attack on the working class in that it shifted the tax burden from direct taxation of the wealthy to indirect taxation of the mass of consumers. Keating famously described Hewson as a “feral abacus.”

    The feral abacus, very nice, now I know where the long time poster with the nickname of ‘feral abacus’ on andrew bartlett’s site gets his name from! (maybe its dr john hisself!).

  43. Neil of Sydney, on February 22nd, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    liar, liar, pants on fire, you’re a liar, liar, liar liar, liiiaaaarrr!

  44. Ooohh! Neil, careful, your apoplexy is showing!

    And I think you owe Min a big fat apology. She is most definitely not a liar and you should feel ashamed for saying it!

    The only reason Costello achieved what little he did was that after the end of the 1991-95 global recession the country entered a prolonged, extraordinary minerals boom. In other words, the Liberal economic credentials are entirely based on serendipity.

    And let’s not forget the deficit black hole the Rodent left for Keating to pay off when the ALP regained power after the Fraser years, a fact which you RWDS constantly try to gloss over!

  45. If there was no federal debt, why were they still paying interest in their last budget?
    joni, on February 22nd, 2009 at 4:53 pm Said:”

    O.K. Joni you have mentioned this several times and I have never responded to your comments. I am not an economist but i like to think i have some common sense.

    If what you say is true why doesn’t the ALP scream from the rooftops about this??? How come you know about this and nobody else. If i was forced to give an answer I would say that the Public Service decided to stay in the bond market. Even thought the Federal govt didn’t need to issue bonds to pay off debt they decided to issue govt bonds to stay in the bond market. This means they need to pay some interest on money people lent to the govt.

    But you would need to ask somebody in the PS about this.

    You can find official govt debt at this link

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2006%2D07/bp1/html/bp1_bst13-01.htm

    Table 3 shows net govt debt. as you can see in 1996-97 it was $96B dollars with an interest payment of $8.5B/ year which we now do not have to pay.

  46. Kitty

    You’ll have to excuse Neil, it seems everyone associated with the Liberal Party are feeling immense pressure. With one weakness after another being exposed and the overwhelming realisation they’ve out of touch with economic reality for the best of a decade the natural reaction seems to be one of accusations and counter-accusation as well as a healthy dose of finger pointing is all they have to rest their laurels on.

    Be gentle Kitty.

  47. “In case you do not know, Daffy Duck was handed on a platter a $20B budget surplus.”

    And in case you fail to mention it, neil, he’s also been handed a big fat recession, thanks entirely to appalling mismanagement by the RWDB crowd you so admire.

  48. And in case you fail to mention it, neil, he’s also been handed a big fat recession, thanks entirely to appalling mismanagement by the RWDB crowd you so admire.
    jane, on February 22nd, 2009 at 5:17 pm Said:”

    Is that so jane. Please tell me why British banks are in trouble. Your heroes the labour party have been in power in Britian for a long time. Thats what i hate about you people. Someone dies- well it John howards fault. My cousin has cancer- well its John Howards fault.

    My experience of you leftoids are that you are decietful and dishonest people. Are you really sure that the problems in the US which has caused everyone else problems was due to RWDB’s.

    Perhaps human greed may have had something to do with it.

    Anyway yours heroes the ALP are in power almost everywhere is Australia so we should not be having problems.

    PS. Daffy Duck was handed unemployment at 4.3% inflation at 2.9%, pretty low interest rates and no govt debt

  49. jane, on February 22nd, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    Somebody had been red-lining the Ferrari, skipping the servicing, and handed it over with a cut-and-wax and a clagged motor?

  50. Neil of Sydney, on February 22nd, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    Mr Brown seems to think it has something to do with a discrepancy between short-term rewards which underplay less-immediate risks and long-term consequences by bankers; although, I suppose the same could be said of all economic managers, including governments who set the tone of national economies and central priorities for public-private provision.

  51. This letter is having the flow on effect that was intended,
    I now see anybody defending Costello is pushed into a corner to argue non facts about peters non lazy political position.

    Costello is a dog that has his very own tree (other politicians) to pee on. The self interest he has in himself can only be rewarded from those with such little care about the party also. no matter the argument from here Costellos image is finished.

    To sit on the back bench like a school child with a gripe is nothing but LAZY and shows he has nothing to add to the party or ever did for that matter, just sat in the sidecart.

    Which one off your trust friends or associates acts in this childish manner, hope the answer is none.

  52. liar, liar, pants on fire, you’re a liar, liar, liar liar, liiiaaaarrr!
    kittylitter, on February 22nd, 2009 at 4:59 pm Said:”

    Is that so. Thankyou for this great honour you have given me. I would be really upset if you liked me.

    Min said Australian politicians are lazy. This is something i would never agree to. Kevin Rudd is working his butt off as do all politicians from both sides of politics.

    Showponey may be totally useless but he is not lazy.

    Legion, on February 22nd, 2009 at 5:36 pm Said:”

    Your link did not work

  53. Spot on Aqua re: Which one off your trust friends or associates acts in this childish manner, hope the answer is none.

    An associate is demoted, refuses all offers of alternatives, sit and sulks. Time to leave and allow the office to be able to operate at a far more efficient level rather than having the distraction of the sulker lurking in the back office.

  54. “Vindicates just about every post we’ve made about Tip, and makes it very difficult for anyone from the right to defend him.”TB

    Oh yeah?…

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/hewson_rants_costello_as_pm_inconceivable/#commentsmore

    Don’t ever discount the power of faith in desperate straw clutching from true believers TB.

    Quoting Piers Akerman to bolster your credibility always works…ahem.

  55. Obviously not implying that you quote piersant TB.

  56. The link is working for me, and the relevant bit of text I had in mind was as follows:

    And that is a measure of the changes we believe are necessary to show that the old short term bonus culture has gone, that there are no rewards for failure but penalties for failure, and that in future there must be rewards for success, but long term sustainable success [emphasis mine]and not just short term gains….In the present and the future no rewards for failure policy will be pursued aggressively.

  57. Tboss,
    Just a quick note about ackerman
    On the same week, these two things where said by Piers.
    The government editing wikspedia is not a bad thing and would be good to have accurate information for a change then the sites you visit.

    Two days later a blogger quotes from wikapedia to crush the arguement piers had about a subject, piers reply to the bloke.
    Any persn the uses wikapedia has no credibilty whats so ever in my book.

  58. “I like Costello and I don’t apologise for it”james of NM

    Definitely your prerogative james, however you do seem too intelligent not to recognise that Pete shit in his own nest & the pile of ammunition readied to hurl at him is a decade long & high enough to bury him.

    Myself, I’m not keen on some of his recent religious dribblings…without even getting into his obvious contempt for the “worker” when balanced against the employer.

    Sadly, it also seems you were very accurate about Sydney’s chances of routing the pathetic Portscum, a pity to be sure.

  59. Works for me too legion,

    liar, liar, pants on fire, neil you’re a liar, liar, liar liar, liiiaaaarrr!

  60. Min said Australian politicians are lazy. This is something i would never agree to. Kevin Rudd is working his butt off as do all politicians from both sides of politics.

    Min said no such thing. Min was on topic re: Costello “Lazy, Disloyal, Unelectable” says Hewson and stated:
    And bone lazy it is, not one question and not one statement from Costello on the back bench.

    From: http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25072881-953,00.html THERE are those on the Coalition backbench who are growing increasingly frustrated with Peter Costello’s indulgent behaviour and indecision…Last year from the back bench, Costello asked no questions and made no statements in Parliament.

  61. Legion, on February 22nd, 2009 at 5:56 pm Said:

    Link not working for me. But perhaps links only work for leftoids on this blog.

    “Toiletboss, on February 22nd, 2009 at 5:53 pm Said:”

    Dear Toilethumor

    Thankyou for the link that has restored my faith in human nature.

    Daffy Duck is about to destroy our country and you leftoids do not care. i have seen an article where he has just given authority to sell Rio Tinto to the Chinese. You can read it here

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/rio-feathers-should-stay-in-our-nest-20090217-8a9a.html?page=-1

    It may have happened already but i do not know. Daffy Duck has on his desk authority to sell an Australian company to the chinese.

    If there is an honest leftoid our there (yes some lefotoids are honest) has this happened???

    Foreign companies pay no taxes in Australia so we will lose Rio Tinto’s taxation revenue

  62. Miglo, is this true your selling rio tinto?

  63. I am getting serious pleasurable mileage out of watching the Old Guard tangling with the New Guard.

    Further to Tony’s comment…

    “As much as I like it here, and I will no doubt upset some by saying so: this place is doing a great imitation of a left-wing echo chamber. Witness the large number of threads, and the gleeful comments, attacking the Liberal Party and its politicians. Contrast the scarcity – have there even been any? – of threads criticising Labor.”

    Tony, I’m sure that given long enough in power I will come to loathe the Labor Lords. I am not a barracker per se, I do however freely admit to despising the former government; they had form. The current government will build “form” of its own, I stand ready to condemn.
    I do believe that there have been multiple threads criticising Labor (or Sen. Conroy at least) for the misbegotten web censorship scheme.

    Point taken though.

    I will be hoping your Tiges give min’s Magpie scum a whipping on Thursday night.

  64. Legion’s link works.

    As usual it is a hefty source of rebuttal.

  65. Miglo is currently on his way home from grovelling at the feet of Warren & Chad aqua.

    But yes, no doubt he has some plans for Rio Tinto…& an ingenious scheme to sell Neil a bridge.

  66. …Last year from the back bench, Costello asked no questions and made no statements in Parliament.

    Lazy and sulking and determined to oust malcolm in the middle.

    Mungo: Costello lingers like a fart in a lift

  67. Aqua..great minds and all that. I was likewise wondering where Miglo is given the number of Daffy Duck statements.

    ‘Daffy Duck is about to destroy our country…’..that explains it, Migs is obviously busy.

  68. Tony, please bring on the posts about Labor’s indiscretions.
    I’m sure they’ll generate plenty of headscratching.

  69. Joe Hockey compares Costello’s ascension as akin to royalty (and the Libs wonder why people think they’re out of touch):

    Mr Hockey played down the tension created by Mr Costello’s presence on the backbench, comparing it to speculation about when Prince Charles would take over the thrown from Queen Elizabeth II.

    “It’s been going on for years and years and years,” he told ABC TV.

    He brushed off the criticism from Dr Hewson.

    “Well, there will be lots of criticisms. You know, that’s politics,” Mr Hockey said.

    “It makes for good copy. But the things that matter are what we are doing for the Australian people.”

    Treasurer Wayne Swan, unsurprisingly, thought Dr Hewson was on the money.

    “Peter Costello’s record, his economic record and his work ethic, is nowhere near as good as Peter Costello thinks it is,” he told Network Ten.

  70. (yes some lefotoids are honest)

    And from the fact the links have all worked for everyone else, it would appear some rightoids are not.

  71. that bridge was mine,
    then again he may have a second one.

    I never know the names of the footy players but the convo between you two on football(Ariel ping pong lol TB) is so funny it keeps laughing.
    —–
    Just as i would never had voted for Kim Beasley, the libs just need new people for a fresh start.
    But its hard to pick something clean and fresh when mould grows everywhere in the party.

  72. Tboss, I have only got these words for you

    We’ve got the Power to win…!!!!!!!

    Go the Mighty Power!!

    Where were you sitting migs? I watched the last quarter and was happy with what I saw. Hope they build on it.

    Neil of Sydney, on February 22nd, 2009 at 5:26 pm Said:

    PS. Daffy Duck was handed unemployment at 4.3% inflation at 2.9%, pretty low interest rates and no govt debt

    Rudd was handed 4.3% unemployment and rising, inflation 2.9% and rising, and interest rates rising. A fine legacy from the Rodent & co.

    And if it’s OK for you to blame the ALP for a global recession, I think it’s fine for me to reciprocate. Certainly Britain is in dire straits and I’ve never made any secret of the fact that Tony Blair should have been chucked out at least 2 terms ago, but let’s not forget who has been running the show in the US for the last 8 years and which economy in trouble puts the world economy at risk.

    It’s still true that if the US sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold.

    And I still say Costello couldn’t manage an economy in recession and we all know Ratty’s treasurer track record.

  73. kittylitter, on February 22nd, 2009 at 6:22 pm Said:”

    Hay Kittpoo

    One of the things we used to be able to say to people from overseas was that our Federal govt had no debt. They would usually be amazed since most govts around the word have humungus debts.

    i have to tell my Americians friends that we voted out of office the govt that paid off all the Federal govt debt and elected a political party that is good at producing debt and unemployment.

    PS- can some leftoid tell me. Has Daffy Duck sold Rio Tinto to the Chinese??? If so this means that any Rio Tinto profiits now go to China which means our budget deficit will be bigger than expected.

  74. Lol, Min.
    Jedda is out collecting protection money or Miglo sells it.

  75. Just FYI, I don’t infer anything from a non-functioning link-connection at a given location.

    And I happen to think that the Gollum screwed any chance Costello had for a planned succession (I think Crikey’s McCallum refers to it as passing the ‘crown’ when he isn’t riding on the elevator and pressing all the buttons).

    I really don’t know what Costello’s mettle is or might be vis-a-vis the Gollum’s tainting and contorting everything he touched in the Liberal Party and the Australian body politic until thrown into the volcano of electoral oblivion.

  76. Rudd was handed 4.3% unemployment and rising,
    jane, on February 22nd, 2009 at 6:37 pm Said”

    Actually jane he was handed 4.3% unemployment and falling. You are therefore like most leftoids a liar. Please give me a link where unemployment was rising in November 2007???

  77. “Just FYI, I don’t infer anything from a non-functioning link-connection at a given location.”

    Fair enough. I drew my own biased conclusions.

  78. Aquanut said:

    the libs just need new people for a fresh start

    Their problem is in the word fresh. There is nothing fresh about conservationism. You can put fresh-faced daleks in to “sell” it, but it’s still the stale old ideology of greed, dog-eat-dog, kick down / kiss up.

    Conservatism is incompatible with freshness. It’s the ideology that wants to stay stuck in the past, recoiling from the future.

  79. Toiletboss, on February 22nd, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    …Just playing fair…the innertubes can be leaky sometimes. 🙂

  80. conservatism — bloody spell-checkers.

  81. “conservationism” can be admirable.

    “Conservatism” on the other hand often has me wondering.

    “It’s the ideology that wants to stay stuck in the past, recoiling from the future.”
    Well put, but there are conservatives & “conservatives”.

    As I get older I dredge my worthless brainpan & find that I have skerricks of each conflicting ideology (among the shades of grey between) within my rationale. This is constantly enlightening.
    For instance, I certainly believe that manners are social lubricant etc.

    How legitimate is the Left/Right divide? I’m increasingly unsure.

    Greed & profiteering, total lack of social awareness though don’t sit well in my busted noggin.

  82. Yes N5, just playing.

    None of this is supposed to be etched on my tombstone.

  83. Has Daffy Duck sold Rio Tinto to the Chinese???

    Does he own it?

  84. Caney
    Good point that slipped my mind, i was throwing in the first though. point taken

  85. Does he own it?
    kittylitter, on February 22nd, 2009 at 7:04 pm Said:”

    Actually kittlitter you are the only person that responded to my question. i think this is important. Australian companies pay tax in Australia. if Rio Tinto makes a $1B profit the Australia govt gets $500 million dollars ( I think). if we sell it to the Chinese we lose this.

    Barnaby Joyce is concerned about what is happening at this link

    http://www.nationals.org.au/news/default.asp?action=article&ID=5570

    Does any leftoid know whether Daffy Duck has approved the sale of Rio Tinto to the Chinese???

  86. F@ck, Soz Legion.

    I meant Legion, not N5.
    Yes, leaky. I got ambushed by the disgruntled at Pure Poison the other day. I know what you mean. Of course I blame Tom of Melbourne.

  87. What sort of a nitwit says in one breath that leftoids are dishonest and deceptive … then in the next breath asks leftoids for information?

    If you don’t trust the integrity of the people here, Neil, find the information you want yourself.

    ___

    Aquanut, not to worry. That’s just me picking up on a word in a post and running with it.

  88. Neil cultivates “leftoids” to seed his own bias.
    A self fulfilling prophecy, the best kind.

  89. Neil of Sydney

    I think we will just have to wait and see what is done with this neil.

    It is not the first time that the Chinese have tried to buy out our mines. In fact, I recall them having a stab just after Labor took control. All the rwdb’s were telling us it was a done deal cos, you know, Rudd speaks Mandarin.

    It failed then, and SHOULD fail now.

    OF course, you can speculate all you like, after all, thats really all you can do at the moment.

  90. What sort of a nitwit says in one breath that leftoids are dishonest and deceptive … then in the next breath asks leftoids for information?
    Caney, on February 22nd, 2009 at 7:25 pm Said:”

    I said most leftoids are deceitful and dishonest. Some are honest. I was asking the honest leftoids for help.

    It is an important matter when an Australian company is sold to foreigners.

  91. Neil, I admire your “hanging in there” it really is very Australian – seriously – you demonstrate an Australian trait that I admire.

    However, Rio Tinto is NOT an Australian company – its Head Office is in London (and they made their bucks in South Africa – their Board is atrocious (I’ve seen them on a corporate video to Comalco). It has a great deal of Australian iron ore in its assets – and I agree I don’t want to see those assets go to China – if you are interested in why – post and I will expand…

    For all OTHER Blogocrats – give Neil the due he deserves…he is battling against the odds…

    Tony you must remember that Blogocrats was born from Blogocracy – a left wing blog – we haven’t changed our allegiance – just our “approach”

    Apologies to joni and sreb if I have “assumed” the plot

    I do admire Neil and Tony and their “stick-to-it” approach – the “leftoid” tags are understandable…

    We really need the ‘opposite’ point of view to -mmmm – function…

    HD – as for “linking” me with Poors Axman – ??? OK I still luv, yer 😀

  92. I think being called a leftoid is cool & amusing.

    It’s far from the worst thing I’ve ever been called.

    I tend to interpret stuff by perceived intent. Attaching less importance to the words & more to the tone of delivery; otherwise you can mistake the pisstakes for being clumsy attacks.

  93. It has a great deal of Australian iron ore in its assets – and I agree I don’t want to see those assets go to China – if you are interested in why – post and I will expand…
    TB Queensland, on February 22nd, 2009 at 7:53 pm Said:

    Yes I am very interested. I am not an expert on these things but Peter Costello and Barnaby Joyce are concerned about what may or not to be about to happen.
    And if they are concerned I am concerned. Most of us do not have knowledge to say if this is good or bad, but we should be concerned.

  94. Neil,

    You are getting hung up on the politics.

    I suspect – like other Blogocrats – that you may be a Liberal Party hack….some of your posts can be naive in the extreme…and you do hang in there where others fear to tread…

    …but us bloggers like to expound our “theories” so here goes…

    …with regard to the “takeover” by the Chinese government companies – Rio Tinto (and other Robber Baron (TRB) companies) don’t really care about “national boundaries”…

    TRBs don’t bother about national borders they only care about money and profit (wherever they can take it)…

    …Rio Tinto is a Now, Now, Now, company – they don’t see past five years…(PS I worked as a consultant with them)

    …the deal that Chinalco is trying to establish has simply tipped the Chinese Government hand – (eg … we want Aussie commodities for the next 100+ years …)

    …our pollies think in an “election period” (three years) the Chinese think in 100 years…

    …our PM has an understanding of China beyond most people in Australia…(knowing Mandarin provides other insights into the Chinese business culture)

    …however, I bet you, that no-one on this blog – leftoids that we are – would be favour a Chinese takeover…

    BTW, BHP Billiton (almost an “all” Oz company) has made a tentative bid to Rio Tinto …

    …someone said to me today that “maybe its Rio Tinto’s way of getting back at BHPB’s offer…ie Chinalco..

    Neil, the Liberal Party would have to deal with this if they were in government – under the circumstances could you guarantee that Liberal government woud not agree to Chinalco?

  95. “Neil, the Liberal Party would have to deal with this if they were in government – under the circumstances could you guarantee that Liberal government woud not agree to Chinalco?”TB

    Not only would they approve it, they’d install Sol Trujillo at gunpoint.

  96. Neil, the Liberal Party would have to deal with this if they were in government – under the circumstances could you guarantee that Liberal government woud not agree to Chinalco?
    TB Queensland, on February 22nd, 2009 at 8:34 pm Said:

    Well this what PC said

    Rio feathers should stay in our nest
    Peter Costello
    February 18, 2009

    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/rio-feathers-should-stay-in-our-nest-20090217-8a9a.html?page=-1

    PC said this” I asked Treasury to give me previous decisions where foreign bids had been disallowed so I could use them as a precedent. The department told me it had no precedent.”

    You say Kevin Rudd has an understanding of China. Perhaps China has an understanding of Kevin Rudd.

  97. LOL Toiletboss!

  98. Im getting a feeling from the lack of response that Miglo only owns one bridge.

  99. Neil of Sydney, TB Queensland, on February 22nd, 2009 at 8:34 pm sums up the situation rather well.

    People are divided on what the ‘best’ way forward is. Even economists are at odds. Lol. Peter Kenyon argues:

    “thinks the deals should, and will, be approved. He said there was no need to worry about China exploiting Australian resources. “It is a good sign because the Chinese don’t think the world is coming to an end, and they see Australia as a long-term source of materials,”’

    Here’s a link.

    http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuId=3&ContentID=126021

    Neil, I get the clear impression you are ‘bone lazy’ in much the same way as Costello is ‘bone lazy’ as described by Hewson. Rather than wait for the Barnaby ‘gospel’ (unbelievable, he’s as thick as three short planks as anyone who follows Senate inquiries will aver), why don’t you do some homework and find out for yourself, T’would be a novel experience appartently.

    Then we wouldn’t have dumb simplifications such as:

    “have knowledge to say if this is good or bad’

    Why don’t you add ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ and add to the stupidity.

    Put simply Neil. Grow up!

  100. Neil of Sydney, on February 22nd, 2009 at 8:42 pm

    Neil, did you actually comprehend the link you supplied?

  101. Neil, did you actually comprehend the link you supplied?
    TB Queensland, on February 22nd, 2009 at 9:03 pm Said:”

    Well not really. i posted the link because I trusted Peter Costello. i have seen reports that Wayne Swan is about to rule about selling Rio Tinto to the Chinese.

    I also posted this link by Barnaby Joyce

    Sell The Minerals, Not The Mine

    http://www.nationals.org.au/news/default.asp?action=article&ID=5570

    This whole thing is confusing for people like me. I do trust the LIbs and I do not trust the ALP. Call me a redneck but that is my belief.

  102. Neil,

    And that is why they are very careful to say that it is the “net debt” because we still have debts that are attracting interest. You stated that all debt was eliminated.

    Any one remember Honest John’s debt truck?

    This what Howard said in 1996:

    We now owe the rest of the world $180 billion. Nothing, my friends, symbolises absolutely and comprehensively more than that disgraceful figure the total failure of Labor’s economic management over the last 13 years.

    By the time he was dumped as PM the debt was over $3 trillion.

    What does that say about Costello’s economic management?

  103. joni

    He made $3 trillion out of a measely $180 billion.

    If you ignore the minus sign, that is quite an achievement 🙂

  104. Neil of Sydney, on February 22nd, 2009 at 9:14 pm Said:

    “Well not really. i posted the link because I trusted Peter Costello.”

    Didn’t really ‘understand the link’. ‘Trusted Peter Costello’. Time to back off folks. This boy goes for his own jugular. And does so with conviction and finesse. Lol.

    TB, he can’t be a ‘plant’. The Libs aren’t that desperate. But who knows?

  105. Neil of Sydney, on February 22nd, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    Neil, you should read your link and then read my post @ TB Queensland, on February 22nd, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    Then let me know what the main differences are – don’t worry yourself with PC or WS or any other “person”. Read the document and my post as if you have read them for the first time.

    Look for the facts (eg Rio Tinto is saddled with high debt.), look for the emotion/opinion (eg Our Chinese-speaking Prime Minister will undoubtedly favour the proposal….why, he’s Australian?)

    Separate the two and form your own opinion…

    …all politicians “fog” the issues – I was lucky, my Mum was a Liberal (as is my sister) and my Dad was Shop Steward – Labor – imagine the “discussions around our dinner table in the 1970’s. Me, my politics were formed at work as a tradie and later as a manager.

    You may believe in “loyalty” but companies don’t – check the papers, TV and websites and see how companies reward 20 years loyalty in 2009.

    Neil, I’ve been around for over six decades – you and your generation are in for a rude awakening…this year.

    …this is the last time I attempt to educate you – from now on you are on your own – if you link to some DH who spouts nonsense, and you haven’t even bothered to analyse the content – then expect to be crucified…

    …I had a reputation on Blogocracy – I don’t want to resurrect it!

    The Blogocrats have been very patient with you – I suspect we are near the bottom of the barrel…

  106. “TB, he can’t be a ‘plant’. The Libs aren’t that desperate. But who knows?”

    They are that desperate this week.
    But he’s for real, I find his style charming.

  107. I learnt a long time ago that Neil is not a troll, but a person simply expressing his passion for a party has really does trust.
    I have also noticed that dispite the leftoids and liar comments he has toned it down a lot.
    TB mentioned his respect to take on the large crowds and stick to his guns, but thats just it, equally he must be thick skinned (he can take it) and what the libral party really lacks, support (they need it).

    So let the time tick away.

    (backs away slowly)

  108. Costello punched in the political chops & deservedly so.

    He’s a real SerfChoices stalwart. Remember this?:

    Australian Broadcasting Corporation
    7: 30 Report
    Broadcast: 08/03/2006
    Reporter: Michael Brissendon

    MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: The Government’s workplace reforms have polarised the nation. The unions and the Labor Party of course are outraged. For the left of Australian politics this is a live political issue to take to the voters. A political opportunity and an example of the rampant ideology that’s now been unleashed by the Government’s control of both houses of Parliament. But for some on the right, there’s also a deep and abiding disappointment with the Government’s work choices legislation.

    DAVID VINCENT, WORKPLACE EXPRESS: The HR Nicholls Society is very disappointed with the work choices changes. While those on the left and perhaps in the centre say it’s a very radical change, they believe it’s basically a sell-out. I guess you could say they’re not a mainstream group, but they play a very important role in keeping the Government true to its mission on IR. They’re always pulling them to the right.

    DES MOORE, HR NICHOLLS SOCIETY: Absolutely. We should go back, essentially, to contracts between employers and employees and those contracts would be settled – in the case of disputes, those contracts would be settled in the courts. The normal courts. You would need only a minimal amount of regulation by legislation of workplace relations

    (Phone rings) PETER COSTELLO ANSWERS PHONE: Peter Costello.

    WOMAN: Peter Costello, a couple of weeks ago you may not have heard of him.

    MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: The HR Nicholls Society named for an obscure Tasmanian editor and industrial campaigner, is now 20 years old. A loose group of industrialists, lawyers and right wing thinkers, dedicated to industrial relations reform.

    WOMAN: The case established for the first time that unions could be sued under common law for the damage resulting from industrial disputes. Since then, Costello has starred in a host of cases challenging union power.

    MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Peter Costello, as a barrister, fresh from his victory for the Dollar Sweets Company against the unions, was one of the four founding members of the group back in 1986. It has been a proudly controversial participant in the IR debate in this country ever since. The criticism of the Government’s IR reforms have come thick and fast from the left. But they are just as tough on the right. Last weekend the HR Nicholls Society celebrated its 20th anniversary with a conference titled ‘Let’s Start All Over Again’ and that pretty much sums up their attitude. Des Moore is one of the more prominent society members. He proudly wears the tag given to him by one High Court judge of “industrial Ayatolah”.

    DES MOORE: I guess our concerns are it didn’t go far enough to free up the labour market and to allow people much greater freedom to enter contracts between employers and employees.
    ———-
    and:

    The H R Nicholls Society was established at a seminar which took place at the CWA Hostel in Toorak, Victoria, on the weekend of 19th February – 2nd March 1986. The Seminar was organised by four people, John Stone, then a financial and economic consultant, Peter Costello, Barrister at Law, Barrie Purvis, industrial advocate, and Ray Evans, an executive with WMC Ltd.

    The purpose of the seminar was to discuss the Report of the Committee of Review into Australian Industrial Relations Law and Systems (the “Hancock Report”) and the prospects for Commonwealth legislation based on that Report; the significance of the Mudginberri dispute; the economic impact of our industrial relations practices in Australia; and similar matters.
    (The H.R. Nicholls Society and its Work.: The H.R. Nicholls Society, Inc.- January 1993)
    ——

    Smiling Pete is a wolf in sheep’s clothing
    N’

  109. Neil, you should read your link and then read my post @ TB Queensland, on February 22nd, 2009 at 8:34 pm”

    TB I read your link at 8.34. China knows all about Kevin Rudd. For all i know Rudd has sold our country to China. The Chinese will always outsmart us.

    What is your opinion abuot selling Australian companies to China???

  110. A tiger can walk into a heard of its prey, hold the tail in the air and flash the white spot at the tip(that means im not hungry or in a hunting mood) amazingly the animals put there heads back down and feed as the tiger walks through and on its way.

    We have communication, education, masturbation and we cant be honest at the best of times.
    Tigers respect there prey more then politicans respect the voter.

    (im sitting on the lounge across the room, this is the scotch typing )

  111. Very apt reminder nas’.

  112. that was in relation to a wolf in sheeps clothing.

  113. “What is your opinion abuot selling Australian companies to China???”

    Insert Japan instead of China back in 80s…they said same about them then…much ado about nothing.

    American companies, shareholders, investors, private equity, ads, CEOs, management are everywhere in Australia…and you’re worried about a few Chinese shares?

    Remember which Nation helped cause the economic downturn. Yep, America. But we still deal w/ them ’cause for better or worse some of them are our allies &mates/buds.

    Neil, gimme a break. This is One Nation claptrap. Benefits noone…particularly exporters

    It’s a two-way street man..

    N’

  114. Toiletboss, on February 22nd, 2009 at 6:22 pm Said:

    But yes, no doubt he has some plans for Rio Tinto…& an ingenious scheme to sell Neil a bridge.

    Yes, Tboss, but which bridge? There are so many.

    Maybe this will ease your fevered brain, neil. Rio Tinto is in very deep financial doodoo due to the “arrogance and ineptitude” of its bosses and is desperate to be bailed out and OZ Minerals is in an equally if not more, parlous position.

    And let’s get it straight, the PM doesn’t own any of these companies-they’re public companies, managed by incompetents, apparently.

    So it’s rather disingenuous, if not deceitful and dishonest, of you to ask whether the PM “owns” these companies.

    But I suppose anyone who’d swallow whole Regional Rortnerships, the Peter “Phone Card” Reith affair, never ever GST, children overboard, Siev X and WMDs to name just a few, may not be deceitful and dishonest, but just plain gullible.

    Get out the deeds for those bridges, Tboss, I reckon you’ve got a live one.

  115. jane, on February 22nd, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    Great link Jane.

    The Rio Board should be sacked for refusing the BHP offer, and the BHP board should be sacked for making it.

  116. Joni and TomR

    “By the time he was dumped as PM the debt was over $3 trillion.

    What does that say about Costello’s economic management?”

    He made $3 trillion out of a measely $180 billion.

    If you ignore the minus sign, that is quite an achievement 🙂

    Quite a feat if Michael West’s sums are correct:

    “Looking at the numbers, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics we have about 21,374,000 or so people living in this country. Our combined national debt (taking all government, personal, private and business debt into account) is $2.32 trillion ($3.4 trillion including equity) as of September last year – and growing. A falling Aussie dollar makes it more expensive to repay, or roll over

    ”Malcolm might happily forget that while his former government colleagues were steering the good ship Australia, the nation’s total debt soared from a mere $700 billion in 1997 up to $3.2 trillion by the close of their term. An increase of 387%”.”

    Neil like to compartmentalise the meaning of debt. Government deficit all that matters isn’t it Neil?

    What we have is is probably the greatest con Liberal supporters have ever fallen for. In the business world it’s referred to as ‘financial or balance sheet shenanigans’.

  117. But I suppose anyone who’d swallow whole Regional Rortnerships
    jane, on February 22nd, 2009 at 10:02 pm Said:

    What your problem about the RPS. The libs started up a scheme where people in regional areas of Australia could get money for infrastructure. The Coalilition got the majority of the money because they had the majority of the seats in regional Australia. It obviously gets up the nose of the ALP and people like you.

    This is some of the things the dasterdly Howard govt funded under this scheme

    1. Upgrade Sawmilling Capacity to Meet Export Demand and AUSGUM
    Furniture Expansion projects.
    2. Jarrahdale Heritage Park
    3. Redevelopment of Geraldton Surf Life Saving Club
    4. Lakes Creek Upgrade
    5. Beef Australia 2006.
    6. Horse Australia 2005
    7. Carnarvon Recreational Marina
    8. Country Homes and Cabins
    9. Undercarriage Remanufacture Facility
    10. Sakai/CIC Business and Export Development

    And there were over 1,300 projects funded under this scheme. Some were disasters, some were O.K. and some were brilliant. This whole scheme was abolished by deceitful and the corrupt Australian Labor Party. Over one thousand projects were funded by this scheme with hundreds in the pipeline.

    The whole thing was abolished by the deceitful, dishonest, corrupt and immoral Australian Labor Party

  118. Nasking, I see you have referred to the Dollar Sweets case.

    Many people talk about the case without actually understanding the detail.

    The owner of Dollar Sweets asked employees to agree to the outcomes provided by the Hawke Govt/ACTU Prices & Incomes Accord.

    All the employees (27 of them) agreed.

    The Food Confectioners Union (??) refused to endorse the Accord. They instead started a campaign for a 36 hour week, against the policy of the ACTU and the Hawke Government. About half the employees stayed with the employer, and half supported the union.

    It escalated as it was always likely to do in this period of centralised wage fixation. Look at what happened when the domestic pilots tried the same thing.

    I always find it odd that Dollar Sweets is regarded a rallying point for the right. It could equally be seen as an outcome that results from irresponsible union behaviour.

  119. Neil

    The whole nation’s$3.2 trillion total debt was deliberately encouraged and backed by the incompetent, deceitful, dishonest, corrupt and immoral Australian Liberal Party..

  120. But I suppose anyone who’d swallow whole Regional Rortnerships,
    jane, on February 22nd, 2009 at 10:02 pm Said:

    O.K. jane I found the link for the Regional Partnerships Scheme. Its hard to work because i guess The ALP wanted to delete it but you can find it here

    http://dynamic.infrastructure.gov.au/regional/approved_grants/grants_regpart.cfm

    At the link where it says states I highlighted NSW and up came 473 approved projects

    The first project said this
    “Regional Partnerships funding will create an olive grove on former mining land that has been rehabilitated in Broken Hill. It will add to existing business activities in the region and contribute to the cultivation, processing and marketing of fine food products in Broken Hill and surrounding areas.
    ACC

    Outback NSW ACC
    Funding

    $14,000.00”

    The first thing the ALP did when it got into govt was to abolish this scheme. there were hundreds of projects in the pipeline which were all destroyed by the ALP

  121. Here’s another example of the brilliance of Costello…the Treasurer who couldn’tt find a billion for PBS so we all got hit. This one’s about the billion or so that got away:

    On February 22, 2002, the Treasury was claiming it had made a realised profit of $43 million on its cross-currency swaps in the first eight months of 2001-02. On the same day, Treasurer Peter Costello said in relation to the cross-currency swaps: “I’m saying that there are no realised losses; no losses have been realised, full stop.”

    But the then shadow finance minister, Steve Conroy, last month established the loss to the taxpayer had been at least $812 million and is close to $1 billion for 2001-02. The record of transactions shows it was impossible for all this loss to have occurred in the final four months.

    Since coming to office, Costello has presided over realised losses of $1.9 billion between July 1996 and July 2003 on currency swaps.

    What has happened under Costello’s watch is a major financial disaster. Even so, the Government has failed to provide a proper account to Parliament explaining how the losses occurred.

    Common morality as well as parliamentary convention require that once the $1.9 billion of taxpayers’ money was known to be lost, a full and open accounting of the losses should have been made. But the Treasurer still continues to deny the losses and, like a compulsive gambler, continues to assert that the losses can be recouped in the future.

    Despite Costello’s 1998 charter of budget honesty, the losses are not reported in the budget, nor is the budget outcome audited. But major Australian and foreign banks have walked away with a fortune as a result of the Treasury’s failed attempt at picking currency winners.

    Journalists at The Sydney Morning Herald and The Australian have written in recent days that the break-even point for the swap transactions is a $A-$US exchange rate of 60.5 cents.

    This is simply wrong. The reality is that Costello has already lost $1.9 billion, which the banks are not about to return. For the Government to break even on the swaps still to mature, the $A-$US exchange rate would need to be 70 cents – which would be disastrous for exporters, our current account deficit and the domestic economic growth rate.

    The truth is the 2003-04 budget is built on the assumption of a $A-$US exchange rate of 60.5 cents and, based on this assumption, buried in the Treasury portfolio statement is the prediction that the unrealised losses on currency swaps still to mature is $1.1 billion.
    For how long can the Treasurer go without admitting the truth?

    (We want the truth about the currency losses: Kenneth Davidson – July 24, 2003 The age . com)
    ———–
    aaargh…now you see it, now you don’t. Liberal style.
    N’

  122. John McPhilbin, on February 22nd, 2009 at 10:17 pm Said:

    “Our combined national debt (taking all government, personal, private and business debt into account) is $2.32 trillion”

    I’ll accept those figures because I have no evidence to the contrary. Nevertheless, over the years (at a personal level but perhaps the experience is capable of being generalised) I have been ‘in debt’ for significant sums but that ‘debt’ also gave me ‘assets’ – houses, flats and the like.

    Are there any figures in an ‘accruals’ sense? Given that our borrowings over the years might have actually enhanced our capacity to produce wealth in the form of assets? Are ‘ports’ worth anything? What about infrastructure such as roads and railways? If not, then why are we investing in same? Surely it’s not just a ‘debt addiction’?

    Is ‘cash’ accounting the only way to look at the world? Does ‘accrual accounting’ not fit with the prevailing ideology?

    The debts are obvious the assets maybe less so? Just asking?

    And if the international investors decide to pull the pin on Australia, where would they then invest their monies? Anyone care to ‘root’ for Iceland?

  123. Thanx, N5 and couldn’t agree more with your comment. A piss in the wind contest, for mine.

    Neil, what about allocating funds to organisations in marginal Liberal seats before a project was even in the pipeline, let alone applied for. But obviously that doesn’t appear on your corrupt and deceitful radar.

    Here’s a couple of links for your delectation. Good old deceit, dishonesty, immorality and corruption by the Rodent government at work, Neil.

    Swoop in, there’s plenty more where they come from. Perhaps we could look at jolly old ministerial conduct and Mr Reith’s for appetisers and entree. Then we could go on to children overboard for mains. WMDs for desert, I think.

  124. Tom of Melbourne, on February 22nd, 2009 at 10:22 pm Said:

    “It could equally be seen as an outcome that results from irresponsible union behaviour”

    Indeed it could! The ideological ‘theory’ that identifies or picks out the ‘facts’ is also likely to be the ideological position that attributes the ‘meaning’.

    The relationship between ‘theory’, ‘methodology’, ‘fact’ and ‘meaning’ is a most interesting epistemological exercise.

  125. Good old deceit, dishonesty, immorality and corruption by the Rodent government at work, Neil.
    jane, on February 22nd, 2009 at 11:05 pm Said:”

    Is that so jane but the link you gave me said this

    “The Liberal and National Party coalition hold 71 per cent of the Australian land mass so … about 71 per cent of the roads around Australia are actually held in government seats,”

    Actually McPhee in the audit report was very clear. It did not matter if you were in an ALP or Coalition seat. You had a 70% chance of getting a grant and it did not matter what seat you were in. The Libs/Nats got more grants because they had more seats. The coalition has usually had a stronghold in regional Australia.

    It got up the nose of the ALP and people like you because the Libs/Nats were getting more grants. I assume that the city areas of Australia have their own funding schemes where they can apply for grants and get money to clean up the area.

    Due to your perverted vote at the last election the regional areas of Australia now have nothing. The ALP abolished the RPS taking hundreds of millions of dollars from regional Australia and you do not care. The ALP will introduce something for regional Australia, surprise, surprise , just before the next election.

  126. jane, on February 22nd, 2009

    FGS you are a breath of fresh air. Careful now, you might be accused of being a ‘sock puppet’. Lol.

    re your link.

    “Earlier this week maverick Nationals senator Barnaby Joyce said he was happy to be accused of pork barrelling because it was only natural to look after your own constituents.:

    Happy to be accused of ‘pork barreling’. WTF? As for:

    “Mr Howard said he met the head of a consortium lobbying for the railway, Everald Compton, a few months ago and was impressed with his determination to get the project off the ground.”

    “He’s been at this for almost 10 years and if tenacity and determination vouch for anything in this world, and they certainly do, he will get this thing to succeed,” he said.

    I can’t believe there was no mention of scaper. Probably an oversight. Lol.

    How many escape clauses do you need in one release?

  127. Nature 5, on February 22nd, 2009 at 11:49 pm Said:”

    Hay have a geese at this

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/airport-noise-grant-of-145m-raises-hackles/2008/05/25/1211653847237.html

    “AN ACADEMIC has queried why the Federal Government has given $14.5 million to one Sydney school to insulate it against aircraft noise.”

    Albandisease has lobbyed for years to get funding to insulate Fort Street School against aircraft noise but he was always disallowed by the PS because the school fell outside the guidelines. Albandisease may have a point but rules are rules and the school does not qualify.

    But once he is elected and is now the Minister for Pork the school magically gets $14.5M. This is so bad because Showpony said before the last Federal election that the ALP would never go against PS advice.

    Tsk, tsk, tsk.

    Actually the $14.5 million is about equal to 40 projects funded by the Regional Partnership Scheme abolished by the deceitful ALP. You know things like funding the Royal Flying Doctor Service etc.

  128. Nature5

    “I’ll accept those figures because I have no evidence to the contrary. Nevertheless, over the years (at a personal level but perhaps the experience is capable of being generalised) I have been ‘in debt’ for significant sums but that ‘debt’ also gave me ‘assets’ – houses, flats and the like.

    There’s an old saying ‘what the wise man does in the beginning, the fool does in the end’. There’s no doubt that the use of debt to invest wisely has it’s benefits, however, there’s a tendency for ‘irrational exuberance’ to take over and people start believing a ‘new era of permanent prosperity’ has arrived and that stock and housing prices will continue to grow. In order to get in on the action banks and other lenders become keen to lend and borrowers to borrow just to get a piece of the action.

    Here’s an example of that I mean from a previous blog – in fact, I knew the obvious correction was coming and in a big way.

    Weekend talkback
    Tim Dunlop
    Friday, June 22, 2007 at 10:22am

    Talking about mediocrity posing as genius, JWH has me worried and more than a little concerned about his true understanding of economic reality. He keeps repeating the same dangerous mantra ˜interest rates are lower and people can borrow more.

    Household debt hits record

    John Howard said the heavier debt burden reflected rising affluence.

    It is the case that people are buying ever more expensive houses, and they are doing that because of a number of factors, the Prime Minister said. One of them is that interest rates are lower and people can borrow more.

    Are more and more people getting sucked into a dangerous debt trap that could lead to financial ruin for many? Lets look at some of the alleged facts and the potential downside, as I see them:

    Debt levels are rising, but we are choosing to use the debt more productively to buy assets that traditionally rise in value, like shares and property.

    However, the Reserve Banks figures on household finances show that assets are rising faster than debt. Households now have assets, including housing, superannuation and other investments, that are equal to eight times their annual income.

    This is a capital gain over the past three years equivalent to 60 per cent of a full year’s income.

    It is not only housing debt that is rising. Margin lending to buy shares has soared 40 per cent over the past year to reach $30.2 billion in March.

    Credit card debt rose at its fastest rate in three years, increasing by 8 per cent to just under $40 billion.

    Remember the Commonwealth Bank ‘Equity Mate’ commercials? Housing prices were booming and the Commonwealth Bank were encouraging everyone to borrow against their growing equity. The message was: take on debt while interest rates are low and your capital gains are BOOMING

    My point, growth in assets measured by capital gains from rising market levels can create an illusion that people are indeed becoming wealthier until at least some of these markets actually correct themselves – which is likely to happen when interest rates increase. Take the recent surge of money being thrown into superannuation funds and the corresponding rise in stock market prices – excess money (sometimes often highly leveraged – refer margin lending) thrown limited markets tends to push price levels to new and unsustainable highs – this no doubt increases asset/equity growth and the belief that money is being used productively – but what happens when the bubble bursts? – as it surely will – Billions of investment gains will magically disappear.

    AND LENDING ON MARGIN TO INVEST IN STOCK MARKETS IS AN HISTORICALLY DANGEROUS THING TO DO – taking on debt in the hope of making a profit in an historically high stock market have brought ruin to many an investor in the past.
    Something to think about, maybe?
    John McPhilbin of NSW (Reply)
    Fri 22 Jun 07 (11:46am) ”

    ————————————-
    “Are there any figures in an ‘accruals’ sense? Given that our borrowings over the years might have actually enhanced our capacity to produce wealth in the form of assets? Are ‘ports’ worth anything? What about infrastructure such as roads and railways? If not, then why are we investing in same? Surely it’s not just a ‘debt addiction’?”

    Come on Nature5

    Bit of a loaded question don’t you think?

    Now you’re getting into the whole universe of investment and it’s actual function in society. Bit of a ‘red herring’ considering the subject of this blog.

    The use of debt to purchase assets that are sure to provide significant returns which both tangible and intangible is obvious a very constructive use of debt. The ability to cover repayments as well as see ongoing benefits in terms of value is what sound investing is all about.

  129. And let’s not talk about Costello issuing conclusive certificates to avoid the info getting out about the first home-owner’s scheme, the impact of rising incomes on the 2003 tax cuts and the effects of bracket creep on taxpayers.

  130. This is very odd, Neil. You are beginning to sound a little like one of those lefty social capitalist people, but it’s disguised under a gloss of nationalism, which is always the refuge of the right when they want to privatise and maximise their winnings but socialise their losses or limit disgorgement of unwarranted gains. Surely it was the LNP which was suggesting that who owned the factors of production was irrelevant when everyone had an equal opportunity to bargain with the (new) owners of the factors of production, their (new) employers, individually for wages. In other words, it really shouldn’t matter who owns the mines, or mining companies, or who takes first and largest slice of the profits, because it will all trickle back down and enrich everyone in Australia. And as we all know, having surplus money to buy up productive capital while others are barely making ends meet, or falling further into a credit black-hole to buy the basics, is just the natural operation of market forces which reward foresight, initiative and hard work.

  131. kittylitter, on February 23rd, 2009 at 12:31 am Said:

    Hay Kittypoo- i am glad you brought up the topic. Have a look at this

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25014930-5013871,00.html

    “LET’S face it: Kevin Rudd only promised FOI reform in the lead-up to the last election as part of a broader strategy to tame and train the media. And it certainly helped him win government.

    In reality, the Prime Minister is no different to his predecessor on this important accountability and transparency legislation.

    Why else would Rudd let other jurisdictions, such as Queensland, go it alone on FOI reform? Why else would he allow obstinate states such as NSW to continue debating the issue? Why else would we still be waiting for him to reveal his hand?”

    Rudd’s empty promise keeps us in dark on mistakes
    Sean Parnell, FOI editor | February 06, 2009

  132. Nice try Neil, but let’s look at all that was written:

    “When suggestions of pork barrelling were first linked to Regional Partnerships in 2004, statistics showed 96 projects in ALP seats and 375 in government seats received funding.

    “Roads Minister Jim Lloyd is now seeking to deflect anticipated allegations of pork barrelling.

    “The Liberal and National Party coalition hold 71 per cent of the Australian land mass so … about 71 per cent of the roads around Australia are actually held in government seats,” Mr Lloyd told reporters, neglecting the fact that land mass does not automatically equate to any amount of roads.”

    A slippery, selective, deceitful, corrupt and immoral attempt to skew the facts?

  133. “A slippery, selective, deceitful, corrupt and immoral attempt to skew the facts?”

    You tell ’em jane. Good work.

    “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act”
    (George Orwell)

    N’

  134. jane, on February 23rd, 2009 at 12:37 am Said:”

    Jane the auditor (McPhee) was clear. Anybody in a regional seat had a 70% chance of getting funding.

    This from page 24 of volume 1 of the report

    40. It is also noteworthy that there is little difference in the overall rate at
    which applications submitted by applicants in electorates held by the various
    parties were approved for funding over the full three years examined to
    30 June 2006, with overall party success rates ranging from 69 per cent to
    72 per cent”

    You had a 70% chance of getting funding whether you lived in an ALP electorate or a coalition electorate.

    The libs/Nats got more grants because they had more seats. You know Jane they may vote Nats but they are human beings, they pay their taxes and the govt gets lots of tax revenue from exports from regional Australia.

    I am sure that the city electorates which are predomitely ALP also have their own funding schemes.

    You are just playing politics. Anyway it doesn’t matter anymore. The ALP abolished the scheme and people in rural Australia do not have access to govt funding.

    I hope you are happy

  135. “The ALP abolished the scheme and people in rural Australia do not have access to govt funding.”

    What the heck is all this then?:

    http://www.business.gov.au/Business+Entry+Point/Business+Topics/Grants+assistance/Federal+government+grants+funding.htm

    N’

  136. nasking, on February 23rd, 2009 at 1:02 am

    It’s assistance, but not the overt, institutionalised, pork-barreling kind per se.

  137. I don’t need the tit for tat Neil, any comment on why Costello was issuing the conclusive certificates? Why he didn’t want the info in the public domain?

  138. What the heck is all this then?:
    nasking, on February 23rd, 2009 at 1:02 am Said:”

    Don’t know. What I heard was after abolishing the RRP they had multi million dollars in election promises to ALP seats in regional Australia. Apparently if you have election promises they do not have to face public service scrunity. I know is sounds crazy but they are the rules. The ALP has a scheme for regional Australia which they will bring in just before the next election. At the moment they are pork barelling their own seats with election promises.

    I found this link on the Liberal party website. i don’t expect you to believe it but it is worth considering

    http://www.liberal.org.au/news.php?Id=1026

    “Labor is preparing to spend nine-tenths of its entire ”Better Regions” funds in seats it either won or targeted during the election, it has been reported today.
    The reports reveal the startling hypocrisy of the ALP, which condemned the Coalition for spending a much lower proportion of Regional Partnerships funds in Coalition seats, said the Leader of The Nationals, Warren Truss.
    ”Obviously, Labor believes the $176 million Better Regions program only funds Labor regions,” Mr Truss said.

  139. kittylitter, on February 23rd, 2009 at 1:16 am Said:”

    You were the ones criticising this behaviour. The Libs are being consistent. The ALP is not

  140. You’re doing it again, Neil. Stop twisting and turning like a twisty turny thing. Quoting Warren Truss of all people on the Libtard site doesn’t inspire any confidence that we’re getting anything more than the usual Rodent spin.

    Using selective quotes doesn’t change the facts and makes you look dodgy.

    Just who, apart from Warren Truss, reported anything about the Better Regions program? Good old Warren doesn’t seem too keen to reveal his sources. Was it the tea lady?

    And you were right when you told kitty that the Libs are being consistent-consistently frugal with the truth, consistently corrupt, consistently full of hubris, consistently dishonest. And I am consistently unable to respect or believe anything that issues from their lying mouths.

    Name me another leader of a political party and PM whose own backbenchers have publicly called him/her a lying rodent!

  141. And another thing, Neil. Do you realise how late it is? Damn you sir, for making me stay up to cut and thrust with you. That doesn’t read as I intended, but too bad, I’m going to my scratcher. I’ll resume sparring at a more civilised hour.

    Go The Mighty Power!!! That one’s for you, miglo.

  142. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25091567-2,00.html

    Costello do you mind turning your face the other way, SLAP!

    What gets me is he believes he should leave at the next election, why wait.
    What am i not seeing here.?

  143. Whats disappointing is after hearing how great he is with this and that, He really cant even organise a sh*t storm in his own party.

  144. I think we should guess what tomorrow headline might read:

    “Libral party eats Peter Costello, tasted bitter one member said.”

  145. Damn! Looks like I missed witnessing the blood-flow last night as the leftoids took Neil out the back and cracked his disquisitional pate. Never mind, it’s recorded here for all to see.

    Special mention to Jane. Well done! 😀

  146. Here’s something you might be interested in reading Neil.

    http://business.smh.com.au/business/rudd-needs-courage-to-defuse-timebomb-20090222-8env.html
    “If you’ve got something you’re ashamed of, don’t want noticed and certainly don’t want pinned on you, the best form of defence is attack.

    This may explain the line Malcolm Turnbull has been running about how the Rudd Government will leave a mountain of debt for our “children and grandchildren”.

    On the face of it, it’s a weak argument likely to persuade only rusted-on Liberal voters and those economically illiterate souls who think governments shouldn’t have debts.”

  147. Jeff Kennett (2003): “Peter Costello has all the attributes of a dog, except loyalty”

  148. What gets me is he believes he should leave at the next election, why wait.
    What am i not seeing here.?
    aquanut, on February 23rd, 2009 at 5:27 am Said:”

    Perhaps because he was elected by the people of Higgins

    Special mention to Jane. Well done!”
    Caney, on February 23rd, 2009 at 6:35 am Said:

    Well done. What for???? It is true that Labors Better Regions Program are election promises. Furthermore the money allocated is much less than Howard gave the regional areas of Australia under the Regional Partnerships Scheme. Labor abolished the scheme and now regional areas of Australia have to wait until Labor brings in a new scheme just before the next election.

    Apparently 90% of Labors election promises are being spent in Labor held seats.

    Using selective quotes doesn’t change the facts and makes you look dodgy.”
    Jane

    What facts are you talking about????

  149. Neil

    Any comment on the 387% increase in national debt that occured when Costello was treasurer? You know the one that Howard said was a “total failure” when it was ALP debt?

  150. Nature 5 – “The relationship between ‘theory’, ‘methodology’, ‘fact’ and ‘meaning’ is a most interesting epistemological exercise.”

    Thanks for that, I’m particularly glad that I went to bed!!

  151. I’d suggest that we need to differentiate between private and public debt.

  152. Tom

    Indeed – but Howard was talking about total debt when he made that comment. Not the federal government debt.

  153. Weird.

    This morning I couldv’e sworn there was an article on news.com.au declaring that Downer has aslo reinforced calls for Costello to leave politics, and within minutes it’s vanished and been replaced with one denying saying any such thing.

    Anyone else notice this…?

  154. reb

    yep – I read it too!

  155. Any comment on the 387% increase in national debt that occured when Costello was treasurer? joni, on February 23rd, 2009 at 9:30 am Said:”

    I had a go at answering your question about how according to you the Federal govt is still paying interest. i remember there was some talk when all the Federal govt debt was paid off should the govt stay in the bond market. That is people lend money to the govt and earn interest on govt bonds. Don’t know if this is the answer to your question..

    As for your question about private debt you have asked me many times. I have never responded because I do not understand private debt. For example Qantas is about to purchase approx 20 A380’s. There is no way Qantas can pay cash for these planes so they will borrow and this will become part of our private debt. I guess if Qantas gets revenue from flying the planes they will have an ability to pay back the debt.

    How much of this private debt is held by Australian companies??? Furthermore Labor dropped the tarrifs last time they were in power so we have to import everything.

    But i don’t understand private debt so i never responded to your questions. Govt debt is easy to understand

  156. Actually reb, the original is still up on The Australian.

  157. Thanks Joni, the spindoctors seem to be in emergency damage control.

  158. Reb:

    This morning I couldv’e sworn there was an article on news.com.au declaring that Downer has aslo reinforced calls for Costello to leave politics, and within minutes it’s vanished and been replaced with one denying saying any such thing.

    Anyone else notice this…?

    Nothing would surprise me. It must be agonising to be a tory cheerleader as their darlings tear their own limbs off.

    There is this story in the OO:

    Time for Costello to move on: Downer

    Former Liberal leader Alexander Downer has told colleagues he believes Peter Costello should leave politics at the next election.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25092099-601,00.html

  159. Neil

    I do appreciate you answer on the federal government paying interest. Which is why I pointed out that Costello is very careful to say “net debt” – because we still owe money.

    The point I am making is that Howard in 1997 made a big issue about the total debt and how this showed that the ALP was incompetent. But when his government was in power that same debt increased 387%.

    Anyone remember the debt truck?

    And so if the ALP’s amount of bad total debt was bad, why is the coalitions debt not bad?

  160. Net foreign debt is now [December 2007] $570 billion (55% of GDP), versus $190 billion (38% of GDP) in 1996.

    Stephen Koukoulas, via Crikey.com.au, 3 December 2007
    http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20071203-Do-nothing-Costellos-legacy-.html?CurrentDate=17+%2F+01+%2F+2008

  161. joni

    That is because back then, the libs were saying it, so neil understood, now Labor are saying it, and neil can no longer comprehend, which makes it all irrelevant.

    It is the perfect case of head in the sand.

  162. Caney

    What and apt description, I’ve always said that the true test of leadership competence comes when times are very challenging and not when things are cruising along :

    “Professor Sinclair Davison and Alex Robson paint a positive picture of Peter Costello and his legacy as Australia’s longest serving Treasurer. The strongest praise is a humiliatingly patronising: “Costello did not make any big policy mistakes.”

    This bar room analysis perhaps encapsulates many of the reasons for the election result which overwhelmingly rejected the Coalition’s “do nothing” approach.

    While there is no doubt that Costello was Treasurer when some very good economic times were recorded, his legacy could be compared to a doctor who tells a patient they don’t have cancer rather than the surgeon who performed the miraculous operations to cure another cancer patient. “

  163. John,

    Right place at the right time, lots of bragging, but lazy, weak and ideologically conformist. That just about sums up poor old Tip on the economy, IMO.

  164. After reading through the posts (from where I left last night)…

    …I began to think I’ve heard this sort of prattle before…and the shrill comments…

    …my conclusion…

    …I reckon Neil is Crass Pain…
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Tom of Melbourne, on February 23rd, 2009 at 9:30 am

    Couldn’t have put it better myself, Tom

    epistemological

    The branch of philosophy that studies the nature of knowledge, its presuppositions and foundations, and its extent and validity.

    N5, you are aware that most of us on this blog are simple, dumb, buggers who prefer short posts and short (no more than two syllable) words…

    …philosphy pher phx sake on Sunday night and after 11pm!

    Think of poor old aquanut, at that stage the only part of the word that would make any sense to him would be “epis…” – just enough to remind him what to do… 😉

  165. “This morning I couldv’e sworn there was an article on news.com.au declaring that Downer has aslo reinforced calls for Costello to leave politics”

    reb, I heard about it on ABC 2 Breakfast News too…I record it during the hours I spend in the garden. Getting quite accustomed to it.
    I FF thru the repeat news & boring bits.
    N’

  166. TB Queensland, on February 23rd, 2009 at 10:46 am

    All I get out of ‘epis’ is taking a ‘side’, but that involves some creative reinterpretation when the windows are where the doors should be, and doors where the windows should be.

    reb, on February 23rd, 2009 at 9:53 am

    As things become more ‘digital’ and hard-copy disappears, the revisionist tendencies of the Winston Smiths beavering away at the Records Department of the Ministry of Truth will increasingly become more common. I’ve noticed it enough already to have to archive things when I read them, and before those documents are sanitised and re-spun updated without acknowledgement of changes or disappear altogether from the official accounts of the Fourth Estate.

  167. Downer’s observation about Costello seems pretty close to mine…

    “For ever and a day people will argue whether Peter Costello could have won the last election,” he said. “I simply don’t know. It would have depended on how he went had he become prime minister.

    A very different Liberal Party, one which was interested in organisational change and cultural renewal through planned succession is simply a different kettle of fish to the party of the moribund held captive to core individual ego. I tend to suspect that the emphasis on ‘strong’ leaders in environments constantly stressing ‘security’ about this and that is producing autocratic leadership styles as politically saleable items, at the expense of other leadership styles.

  168. People need to understand there is a massive benefit of a booming economy for any Treasurer. They can simply forecast better and better taxation revenue while throwing money aroubd at election time and lowering taxes as though the good times were always here and will never disappear.

    The last few treasurers have had hiccups in the economy during their tenure but nothing too major and therefore cannot be considered anything other than average or mediocre for the simple reason the economy ran well without their doing.

    A great treasurer is one who proves themselves during an eceonomic catastrophy and we have not had one of those for many years and certainly not in my lifetime.

    However we now have an economic crisis that is apparently only second to the great depression. So it reamins to be seen whether Wayne Swan makes it through or we indeed have another government in three years time with a new Treasurer.

    What I can state is that those before him for over 60 years never had what he now, has to face. This would be the same no matter what party was in power today.

    A great treasuer will be the one who manages to maintain our taxation income base for future prosperity while ensuring fairness and opportunity, rather than knee jerk tax cuts which destroy the taxation income base and prove extremely difficult to re introduce when good times return to enable the repayment of debt accumulated while the economy faces such challenges.

  169. Reb you dont mean the link i put up?
    5.27am, never mind i bearly read my posts either.

  170. “you dont mean the link i put up?”

    You certainly did aquanut. I try to read all your posts these days. But didn’t use the link ’cause it went to a site I generally avoid.

    Now, if you’d used an ABC on-liine link…:)

    N’

  171. Fair enough, i guess most people aviod that site

    Thanks Nasking

  172. “Thanks Nasking”

    Yer welcome aquanut. I’m sure some blogocrats go there. I’m a fussy bugger sometimes.
    N’

  173. shaneinqld, on February 23rd, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    I’m going to present a mind experiment for you, Shane.

    Suppose I present a scenario where the economy has no taxes in a stable environment; but Government introduces new taxation. What is the effect on aggregate demand and business operations which sustain employment?

    Now, I’m going to change the scenario by making the economic environment highly unstable; and Government keeps its taxation just the same. What is the effect of that sustained taxation on aggregate demand and business operations under those changed conditions?

    Finally, and assuming you’ve discovered that the effective incidence of taxation varies according to the health of an economy, having the possibility of fiscally stimulating or dampening relationships of aggregate demand and aggregate supply, how are you automatically arriving at your declaratory conclusions that:

    a) maintaining taxes originally introduced into an economy will ‘help’ safeguard a ‘tax base’ if that tax base erodes as a consequence of attrition, to which taxation and its dampening effect on aggregate demand is contributing, in an unstable environment; and

    b) maintaining those taxes cannot be reintroduced or increased in future good times to recoup the costs a present fiscal stimulus consisting of tax relaxation (which, ideally, should occur anyway to dampen out bubbles like the present bursting one and to provide a basis for generating a surplus for occasions exactly like these, and to cover the foregone taxation)?

  174. Possum has new thread up on one of the latest polls. One of the question is: Who do you think would make the better Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd or Peter Costello?

    On the 8th Sept the result was: Rudd 53%, Costello 27% and undecided 20%

    On the 23rd Feb the result was: Rudd 62%, Costello 21% and undecided 17%.

    It seem that Hewson is correct in saying that Costello is unelectable.

  175. It’s a leftist meeja conspiracy joni.
    I’ve never been polled & therefore the results must have been predetermined.

  176. Joni..am thinking that the important thing is that Costello isn’t going to happen because Turnbull is going to make certain that it isn’t going to happen.

    To me Turnbull has recently been fluffied down from his Saviour status. I very much doubt that this is due to Costello’s supporters, but from ‘the others’ and tis not the Labs.

    Peculiar and peculiar.

  177. Legion

    Your mind game is far too hypothetical for me as no economy can exist without taxation of some sort.

    If it can please point to the country exisintg as such.

  178. shaneinqld, on February 23rd, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    Nice dodge, and well-spotted. Ok, scenario one has a an economy creating taxation rate of x % and government introduces a new tax rate of x+1%.

  179. Legion

    Will respond tomorrow as my day is now over.

  180. Run away Run away… we now have algebra introduced into the blog.

    Then again it does remind me of the mathematicians who were arrested at LAX by the US Authorities. They admitted that they knew Al Gebra and were carrying weapons of math construction.

  181. “Possum has new thread up on one of the latest polls”

    Good to see the results of a poll that’s not sanctioned by the corporate aristocracy.

    “It seem that Hewson is correct in saying that Costello is unelectable.”

    Going by the views of the six at the restaurant the other night Costello wouldn’t stand a chance. And two were older Nat voters who swing occasionally…one is a bit One Nation but swings Labor sometimes…one more of a Laborite but has voted for Howard…and then there’s the missus & I.

    “am thinking that the important thing is that Costello isn’t going to happen because Turnbull is going to make certain that it isn’t going to happen.

    Have to agree w/ you there Min. Nor are a few other protogees and others w/ ants in their pants who are wanting to spread their wings…& claws. Can you blame them…the man is like a bloated, well-fed lion in a zoo…he has no pounce.

    N’

  182. And he is waiting for his 2007 post-budget pounce….

  183. Have to choof and have duties tomorrow.

    Best recipe..N’..ever since you mentioned silverbeet and ricotta all that I have been thinking of is lasagne with crusty home made Italiano bread soaked in garlic butter. And so that’s tonight.

    Neil..best insult..blind dead ALP tribal loyalist. Neil I have voted National Party at state level for the last umpteen years. Don Page is an excellent person who has helped me out heaps in the past re assistance in schools for kids with disabilities. Don is excellent because he follows through almost immediately..make a phone call and expect a response the next day or even that afternoon.

    And so there ya’go and there ya’have it.

  184. my link was changed also. typical.

    I apologize for my sarcasm Reb.
    I was more disappointed in myself, feel like i have made more then a fool of myself late at night.

  185. Queensland goes to the polls on 21st March…

    Very short campaign!

  186. “lasagne with crusty home made Italiano bread soaked in garlic butter. And so that’s tonight.”

    I’m salivating now Min.

    Have a great night. I’m heading off too.

    “i have made more then a fool of myself late at night.”

    Haven’t noticed aquanut. Seem fine to me.

    “Queensland goes to the polls on 21st March…”

    Just when I thought we could mentally relax…darn polies.

    Oh well…GO ANNA BLIGH!

    Cheers
    N’

  187. “I apologize for my sarcasm Reb.”

    No sarcasm detected Aquababy..!

    “lasagne with crusty home made Italiano bread soaked in garlic butter. And so that’s tonight.”

    “I’m salivating now Min”

    I second that salivation!

    🙂

  188. Just a quick clock in. Thank you reb (sorry not Lord as I come from a long line of egalitarian tribalists from Wales and such places) and N’ and Aqua. However if anyone makes another sarcastic comment on the other thread about the deceased via Bush Fires then I wish to announce that my bro in law is (nah, will keep you guessing)..just tone it down hey and have as TB suggests, a little respect.

  189. Fair comment Min re: respect.

    I just wish the pollies would sit quietly in the crowd, while the “real” people who are affected by the crisis make the speeches.

    But point taken.

  190. BTW, you’ve reminded me of the importance of humilty, therefore I shall refer to previous title of just “reb”

    *sniff*

    I quite liked the idea of being “a Lord” but I doubt my working class Scottish ancestors would approve either.

    Oh well, maybe someone will award me an honourary doctorate or sumthin’.

    Tom reckons it’s good for an upgrade on Qantas…..

  191. Going by the views of the six at the restaurant the other night Costello wouldn’t stand a chance.

    Apparently for that kind of poll to be taken seriously you have to stand up on a stool at your local pub and take a show of hands. Or something.

  192. epis,
    thanks TB, i was very much under pressure.

    Bloody big words.

  193. Arise lord reb, it suits you, keep it (the lordship, not the humility). I bestow the honorary title of lord reb upon ye, for services to the blogocrats, as you know we are the aristocracy and we shall have our lord!

  194. Tony, on February 23rd, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    Depends on the stool your standing in – oops – on…

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    aquanut, on February 23rd, 2009 at 7:44 pm

    Did you have one? E pis I meant!

    (Legion got lost, ’cause epis was too short for him…he’s used to them long words – and I have to read his posts three times, sometimes…)

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    kittylitter, on February 23rd, 2009 at 7:56 pm

    KL, please don’t – Tassie Boy is hard enough to cope with now, without a swelled head…Lord, indeed!

  195. “I bestow the honorary title of lord reb upon ye”

    Indeed, reb you are an inspiration to all young aristocrats & dapper men:

    🙂

    N’

  196. Kittylitter – I’m with you.

    We need more people here that are pretentious and up themselves. I’m struggling here – pretty much on my own.

    Lord Reb of Salamanca.

  197. I’ve just started reading this thread and I’ve hit shit already. Neil, Min was quoting someone else, yet you proceeded to call her a liar. If you want to keep playing the man/woman then I’m quite prepared to take you on by your rules.

    You are a jerk. An absolute low piece of childish, gutless filth. You have degenerated into name-calling moron. Get your rocks off somewhere else pal. Go dribble your spew with your heroes Bolt et al.

  198. Miglo thanks buddy i was hopping that would be said, like TB i stepped in. but to see if i could ease the situation. i feel very embarrassed for trying as it backfired big time.

    I really what to point one thing out, There are opposing opinions in this room and different voters also, we get along better then expected in a group of this sort.

    I think there is more going on then frustration in his comments.

  199. Thanks Aqua. I do not deny that Neil can – on rare occasions – offer a valued point of view that encourages lively, healthy debate.

    But if he publicly belittles a friend, then that is a behaviour that should not be tolerated.

  200. Miglo, that commentary seems very personal. I think Neil is likely to be quite offended if he reads it.

  201. I thought the ABC news QLD reporting on the election announcement tonight was shamefully biased against Premier Anna Bligh.

    A small gaff in her speech, not worthy of mentioning, was made a big deal of…& yet THE CORPORATE BORG stuffed up his speech big time and nought was said about it.

    Furthermore, Anna Bligh was compared to two former female Labor Premiers, both who lost their next elections. Firstly, do they compare each male Premier to all the other blokes who ran for election?…paint them all w/ the same brush?…as tho they all befall the same fate?

    It’s BS.

    Secondly, no mention of the problems that the other two female Premiers had at the time…Bligh has nothing similar…in fact I reckon she’s gutsy & effectively cleaning up a few problems caused by both Beattie & the former Nat government.

    To run an election campaign during the Patel hearings demonstrates to me the METAL the lady is made of.

    Just thought I’d air that gripe.

    N’

  202. Neil, selective quoting makes you look dodgy. Echoing Jim Lloyd’s attempt to hide the fact that 71% of the land mass does not equate to 71% of the roads is deceitful and dodgy in anybody’s language.

    The other aspect of the Rodent government’s sleazy and dishonest Rortnerships plan was the scandals that erupted when they were caught handing out cash to towns in Libtard electorates for projects which did not exist or handing over the cash before an application for a grant had even been lodged.

    Here’s another couple of links for you to read and inwardly digest.

    I hope even you will be able to appreciate that Ratty & co were and are a bunch of lying, cheating, corrupt mongrels, after you read them, or will you rationalise their actions like so many of the Rodent’s cheer squad.

  203. Hi Nasking. Apart from some partisan barracking – Libs vs Labor – a Queensland state election holds little interest for me. But I happened to see this video elsewhere today, and Anna bligh’s reasons for going early just don’t ring true to me:

    (To paraphrase Anna) “There’s a financial crisis going on so we had better have an election so that people aren’t distracted by an election in the midst of a financial crisis. ”

    WTF?

  204. Jacques Lacan might have a few things to say about the other-than-‘leftoids(?)’, and what’s reliably to be inferred as being behind the magic mirror of un-reflective projection; which is why I love the name-calling and the finger-pointing, because the kinds of names and the kinds of finger-pointing are self-selected admissions…leakage through the tarnished silver back-surface is like that….just shine a light on it to see straight through it…and thence deconstruct the projection. It must be hard discovering a whole Other humanoid world that willfully refuses to cleave or to cohere into neat little categories of oppositional Other-ness; especially a ‘leftoid’ who votes National on pragmatic and personal-relational grounds.

  205. Tony, on February 23rd, 2009 at 11:01 pm

    WTF?

    Shhhh…nobody mention the June budget…and just go with the revisionism over at the LP about how an early election was pressurised by the Courier Smell’s Right Wing meeja conspiracy which would have sunk Anna’s premiere as elected Premier given more time and harping on about all the public services blackspots and the battery of a AA budgetary blackhole….or write your own semi-plausible narrative.

  206. What a piccie, Nasking.

    Hope surely Reb doesn’t look like than in the flesh, less the poor lad attract some not-altogether-wholesome…ahem…attention from Oscar Wilde.

    As for the rest of it, I reckon jane’s got a pretty good handle on Howard and his way of doing things.

    The problem for the Libs right now is that they haven’t purged their party of the noisone Howard crew. They’re still there, like a bunch of fat, stinking floaters bobbing-about at the bottom of the bowl.

    C’mon fellas, you’vre really gotta learn to flush. It’s easy: Just pull the bloody chain and get rid of ’em.

    One thing is certain: You’re not gonna be re-electable until your porcelain is gleaming. So get to it.

  207. “Hope surely Reb doesn’t look like than in the flesh, less the poor lad attract some not-altogether-wholesome…ahem…attention from Oscar Wilde.”

    Nah, reb is a strapping fella now (see his new Gravatar)…on the scent of the lost Costello leadership…some say he’s been investigating the Nation’s parliament in Canberra and found no sign of it…the last I heard our intrepid detective was snooping around a chicken coop at the back of Joe Hockey’s place…seems it may have fled under a broody Bantam.

    “As for the rest of it, I reckon jane’s got a pretty good handle on Howard and his way of doing things.”

    Couldn’t agree more.

    “One thing is certain: You’re not gonna be re-electable until your porcelain is gleaming. So get to it.”

    Nice description Evan…but some say that the ghosts of Howeirdian past just can’t be got rid of…like stains on that porcelain bowl…& they even used Bon Ami…:)

    Obviously the new, impotent team just ain’t scrubbing hard enuff. Too much lying/laying about in the hammock w/ their old mentor.

    N’

  208. They need more than Bon Ami, Nasking. And there’s not enough Toilet Duck in the world.

    I reckon Industrial strength solvent is more the ticket.

    You know, that caustic stuff they use to remove oil stains from concrete at automotive workshops. Now that stuff would take stains off your character.

  209. “jane, on February 23rd, 2009 at 10:52 pm Said:”

    Jane it was the Regional Partnerships Scheme not the Blacktown City Council Scheme. Furthermore I would advise not to believe everything in the media.

    During the 3 years the auditor (McPhee) investigated, approx 1,350 grants were funded. Of these approx 40 were overturned by Howard govt ministers. This means that for 97% of the grants they followed Public Service advice. They overturned 43 grants, 38 of which were in favor of coalition seats and only 5 for labor seats. While there was some rorting how bad was it???

    The auditor was clear in his report, it did not matter if you lived in a coalition or ALP seat, you had a 70% chance of getting a grant.

    The Coalition got more grants because they had more seats. I am sure the city electorates which are ALP seats have their own schemes.

    In the second link you gave it said that Howard ministers funded grants

    “For projects that government departments had advised against.”

    Thats the 43 times I mentioned. Anyway why have ministers if they are not allowed to overturn PS advice.

    Furthermore it was a brand new scheme so there were always going to be teething problems.

    As usual i do not agree with you.

  210. Furthermore Jane have a look at this link

    http://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/b/sunrise/9174/albanese-responds-to-claims-of-slashed-funding

    “UPDATE: Minister Albanese contacted Kochie to say he didn’t realise how many community groups were affected. His department’s impression was that the whole partnership scheme was a bit of a rort. But there are some really good community projects in there – so he’s going to fast-track the examination of all the applications.

    Ken Wilson, who came onto Sunrise pleading for the completion of his community’s playground in Bundaberg, received a personal phone call from Albanese. The minister said he had personally read their case and that he was no searching for alternative funding.”

    In case you do not release Jane you leftoids abolished this scheme causing untold damage in Regional Australia

  211. OMD Neil, do you mean that a federal politician realised they made a mistake and wished to correct it? Something that you rightoids never saw under the previous government.

  212. Neil = Poodle? Perhaps?
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    sreb, has a new avatar? Oh! Gawd, do we have a Dr Watson in the house? I thought he aspired to the aristocracy?
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    N’, I don’t think Ms Bligh has too much to worry about with Lawrence & the Handouts – nice big sign on Sandgate Rd at Virginia with Laurie and the young (18)Micheal Palmer…

    …although Mr Palmer is certainly out in front of his senior colleagues…(or just letting the cat out of the bag – did the LNP have inside info? He was a month too early though…same date 21st?)

  213. Legion

    If you want to quote me please use my words and not construe them into a thesaurus of words that politicians would wish to use to confuse the average person like myself.

    I am a simpleton, I see things in simple form not in complex aggregate synposis in a stable purlieus situation. Please in future put your proposals to me in a form commensurate with my year ten education or I will neither acknowledge or reciprocate.

    Of course I understand that taxation revenue is determined by how well the country is travelling. Much easier to understand than your third paragraph which says exactly the same thing.

    Automatically arriving at the declaratory conclusions.? It is an opinion, my opinion, is that what you mean by Declaratory Conclusion ?

    You seem to think that a reduction in taxation will encourage a business to increase its employees as a result of an economic crisis. If this was the case then the number of employees in companies should have sky rocketed over the years as the company tax was substantially reduced during this period. What happened was management salaries skyrocketed along with short term bonuses based on frivilous short term share price gains.

    For example all of the tax cuts given to companies and employees over the years should have resulted in immediate increases in employees. This did not eventuate.

    ANZ makes hundreds of millions of dollars yet still prepares to remove 5,000 staff during an economic crisis. I wonder if shareholders would have been happy to have a reduced dividend for 12 months in lieu of sacking staff.

    Telstra says no to negotiation with employees but tells shareholders to get stuffed regarding management salary increases.

    The only thing that drives employee numbers is demand and a level of service customers will accept, as demand is what drives profit. We are now seeing this in the mining industry and services industries such as the Banks. Jobs are going because demand has tanked. not becuase there has been any change intaxation.

    No employer, employs more staff than absolutely required whether they are making millions or squillions. Look at Telstra as a classic example.

    Why a blanket tax increase of 1% why not a tax which identifies those that can support the economy during a downturn ?. The talk from the opposition is to lower taxes, not increase them. I propose to leave them where they are, neither increase or decrease them and create employment in infrastructure while the private sector winds down.

    Your hypothesis regarding taxation increase is irrelevant as I never proposed an increase in the current taxation rates.

    I thought my comments were simple. If you reduce taxation you reduce the governments income at a time when they need to support many sectors of the economy while trying to minimise the debt they enter into as these days they are expected to operate as a business not a government.

    If taxation levels are reduced it will be very difficult and almost impossible to increase them at a later stage. What political party will agree to increasing taxes while in oppostion.

  214. Neil, you really are unwilling to read or comprehend anything which doesn’t agree with your preset view. I don’t believe that I ever singled out Blacktown Council for particular attention; in fact I didn’t mention it.

    This is the stuff I’m on about:

    “Sixteen grants worth a total of $3.5 million were approved in 51 minutes, from 3.25pm to 4.16pm, by the then parliamentary secretary for regional services, De-Anne Kelly, before the Government went into pre-election caretaker mode at 5pm the same day.

    The audit office concluded that the scheme “had fallen short of an acceptable standard of public administration”.

    The release of its report yesterday — nine days before this year’s election — comes as the Government faces fresh claims that it is again pork-barrelling to shore-up marginal seats. The auditor found Government ministers had awarded grants:

    For projects that had not been properly assessed.

    For projects that government departments had advised against.

    To groups that had never even applied for funding.

    One group said it “remained a mystery” how its grant had been announced before it had even finished its proposal.

    And in a finding seized on by Labor, the audit office confirmed a 2005 report by The Australian Financial Review that the office of the then Nationals leader, John Anderson, had lobbied in favour of a proposed ethanol plant in his electorate — defying a convention for ministers to refrain from involvement in applications from their own electorates.

    The lobbying was done by Mr Anderson’s then chief of staff, Peter Langhorne, who is now an adviser to the Prime Minister.”

    Do I have to reduce it to words of one syllable for you to understand the extent of Rodent government corruption on just this one issue? It wasn’t good enough when Ros Kelly did it and it sure wasn’t good enough when Ratty & co did it!!!

    And Neil, you’ve just shot yourself in the foot with the Albanese link. He’s apologised to those affected and has undertaken to fast-track re-examination of their case . Not the actions of a deceitful, corrupt, dishonest and immoral minister or government.

    Once again, here is the guts of the Regional Rortnerships scandal and why the Rudd government gave it the flick:

    “How it began

    When the Regional Partnerships Program was started by the Howard government, Labor raised issues surrounding its impartiality. Accusations also emerged that more grants had been awarded to marginal electorates in the weeks preceding the election.

    Australian National Audit Office (ANAO) found many flaws in the program.

    “ANAO analysis revealed that ministers were more likely to approve funding for ‘not recommended’ projects that had been submitted by applicants in electorates held by the Liberal and National parties,” the report said.

    The Sun Herald reported that many grants were approved “against departmental advice”, noting 38 out of 43 projects were in coalition seats.

    To gain full approval, applicants needed to:

    1) first be notified by the previous government that their project had been approved for funding,

    2) have a funding agreement executed by the Australian Government

    Without the second provision, projects were left with a draft agreement that is not being continued by the Rudd Labor government, and so lapses and all potential funding is now withdrawn.

    What happens next

    The Labor Government now says the program will be replaced but any new program will first be investigated by a Standing Committee with community consultation.

    The earliest time a new version can be expected to be up and running is after July 2008.”

    And btw, in my post of 22 Feb @ 5.08pm, I called on you to apologise to Min for calling her a liar. I haven’t seen it yet. If you have done so, I apologise for overlooking it.

    joni and HRH the Duke of reb, sorry to make the post so long, but poor old Neil apparently can only read what might be favourable to the Rodent party and I am attempting to teach him that you have to take the bad with the good.

  215. Joni and HRH reb, my bad with the bolding. I kneel before you head bowed, cap in hand, ready to prostrate myself on your command.

  216. I like that, HRH reb, Prince of Blogocrats

  217. Hmmm, yes. “His Royal Highness”. It has a nice ring to it…

    Jane, “bold” has been fixed. Just say twelve hail Marys..

  218. Don’t you mean hail reb’s? I think it’s time you were elevated to divine status; I’ve already ordered the marble and it’s up to you to resurrect Michelangelo.

    BTW, thanx for fixing my blunder.

  219. “I think it’s time you were elevated to divine status”

    True, however I doubt there’d be enough room for me and Tony Abbott.

  220. With apologies for being off topic..any volunteers to find hubby and self a ticket??

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/garrett-to-rejoin-midnight-oil-for-bushfire-benefit-20090224-8gao.html

  221. And Neil, you’ve just shot yourself in the foot with the Albanese link.”

    Jane the first thing the ALP did when coming into govt was to overturn PS advice and get $14.5 million dollars to insulate Fort Street against aircraft noise. Albanese has tried for years but was always knocked back. Now he is the Minister for Pork he finially got his way. However Rudd said labor would not do this before the last election.

    Labor hammered away at the 43 times out of 1,350 grants that were overturned against PS advice by Howard govt ministers. And those 43 grants only totaled 10 million dollars. Albanese’s one grant for Fort Street was $14.5M.

    Furthermore after abolishing the scheme Albanese actually found out what a good scheme it was. He terminated hundred of projects which were in the pipeline and replaced it with nothing.

    I never said there was no rorting but it does not appear to be anything like the leftoid media presented it. It was a brand new scheme which had problems which were resolved during the audit process. When the report was released Mark Vaile had already addressed every single comment by the auditor. To can read it at the back of the report

    The scheme was so large the the enemies of the Howard govt pounced on the very few times there was rorting and trashed the whole scheme

    PS I apologise for calling you a liar Min. Sometimes people say things they latter regret and it is so easy to hit the send button. I am sorry for my comments. I hope you accept my apology.

  222. Neil..please don’t worry. I very much enjoy reading your posts as without differences of opinion then there would be no progress. Or somfin’ similar.

    For Neil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO7n2m8O_og

    Sometimes you’ve got to take the harder line..

  223. “PS I apologise for calling you a liar Min. Sometimes people say things they latter regret and it is so easy to hit the send button. I am sorry for my comments. I hope you accept my apology.” (Neil).

    Neil, it takes a lot of courage to say “sorry”. Now that you have said the word, I’ll retract those few sentences where I went ballistic at you.

    Part of my character is that I’ll be the first to defend a friend when attacked.

  224. Well Neil, just don’t get, do you? How is it that you are completely incapable of recognising corruption, deceit, dishonesty and immorality when it is staring you in the face. The fact is that the Libtards rorted this scheme at every turn.

    Tell me that you’d be more than happy if the Labor Party administered their scheme in the same way. ie. approving grants for non-existent projects and ministers lobbying for funds for projects in their own electorates, ignoring the convention not to interfere in applications in their own electorates.

    And how can you ignore the fact that the auditor found Government ministers had awarded grants:

    For projects that had not been properly assessed.

    For projects that government departments had advised against.

    To groups that had never even applied for funding.

    One group said it “remained a mystery” how its grant had been announced before it had even finished its proposal.

    Then once again the bleat about all those projects in the pipeline. Well, they weren’t, mate.

    This is what happened, although you seem to be genetically incapable of understanding the facts.

    To gain full approval, applicants needed to:

    1) first be notified by the previous government that their project had been approved for funding,

    2) have a funding agreement executed by the Australian Government

    Without the second provision, projects were left with a draft agreement that is not being continued by the Rudd Labor government, and so lapses and all potential funding is now withdrawn.

    Your f*cking heroes didn’t execute the funding agreements, thus leaving the applicants in the lurch. So stop whining and have a good look at what really went on!!

    Well done for the apology to Min.

  225. The fact is that the Libtards rorted this scheme at every turn.
    jane, on February 25th, 2009 at 12:01 am Said:”

    Don’t agree. 97% of the grants followed Public Service advice. The shear number of funded projects means that if a small number were rorted, it looks like a lot

    “Tell me that you’d be more than happy if the Labor Party administered their scheme in the same way.”

    Yes I would. It is difficult for people to be completely fair. A slight favouritism would not bother me. Also it was a new scheme so there would be lots of initial problems which were ALL fixed by the time the report was released. But Labor uses rorts like crazy. i believe they refused to build a railway line here in Sydney because it went through Liberal seats and they would not lose votes if they didn’t build it. Please do not use Labor as examples.

    “For projects that government departments had advised against.”

    Listen I am not saying there was not rorting but how bad was it. Also on this topic Brendan Nelson ordered the Super Hornets for the RAAF against PS advice. Thats why we elect politicians otherwise lets just let the PS run the country. I do not agree with the auditor on this point.

    “1) first be notified by the previous government that their project had been approved for funding”

    Well a lot of people had there hopes dashed. You would think that if your project was approved by the govt you would get the money but the last Federal election result changed that. The ALP abolished the scheme and a lot of communities were affected. The story actually made it onto the Sunrise program with Koch.

    “So stop whining and have a good look at what really went on!!”
    What went on is that the ALP abolished the scheme for political purposes. The RPS was good for Australia but since lots of the voters in regional Australia are Nats voters the ALP does not care

  226. “The story actually made it onto the Sunrise program with Koch”

    Wow. The test of political importance seems to be making it on Sunrise. No wonder the Liberals made Joe Hockey treasurer.

  227. Neil, there’s none so blind as those who don’t want to see. If you think it’s OK for the liberals to rort their scheme, then don’t whinge if you think Labour has done the same thing.

    As for the railway story, how about backing it up with more than your paranoia? And even if it is true, by your twisted reasoning, it’s OK, because it’s just a rort. No biggie. Oh, I forgot, it’s only OK if the Libtards do it!!

    Labour gave the Rortnerships scheme the flick because they thought it was just a giant pork barrel and so did the press and a lot of others. Ian McPhee didn’t pat them on the back, he gave them a serve!

    The rejected projects had not been approved by the previous government; that’s why they were scrubbed. As I said before, how about actually reading the links I provided in entirety, not just the one or two words that
    feed your delusions.

    What has Labour’s reaction been since they found out that some of the projects were genuine? Albanese is having them fast-tracked and he doesn’t seem to care whether the project is in a Labour or Liberal electorate, the corrupt bugger!!!!

    Huh, with Neil’s track record, I wouldn’t believe it unless I had proof. And that doesn’t mean the Libtard website, although I actually read the whole link, not just choose the bits I like. 😉

  228. Neil, there’s none so blind as those who don’t want to see.
    jane, on February 25th, 2009 at 8:40 pm Said:

    So true Jane so true. Can give me an example of a completely honest govt??

    You gave me 5 or 6 examples of rorting out of 1,350 projects. In 97% of the projects they followed PS advice. I don’t listen to your speeches on morality because I regard the ALP as corrupt. It just governs for itself and rorts everywhere.

    The examples you gave me of rorting occurred at the beginning of this new scheme which had teething problems. You should not trash the whole scheme because of a few wrong things

    “As for the railway story, how about backing it up with more than your paranoia?”

    Well I found this “Northwest rail link officially shelved” This link was an election PROMISE by NSW ALP before the last election

    http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,27574,24579596-5006009,00.html

    Down the page it says this “Prime Minister Kevin Rudd was also believed to have told the State Government that it would not get federal funding as there were no votes in Sydney’s northwest for Labor”

    NSW Labor also put the desalination plant at Kurnell because it is a Liberal seat and no-one wants the plant. Labor doesn’t lose votes if it puts the plant in Kurnell

    “What has Labour’s reaction been since they found out that some of the projects were genuine?”

    Some of the projects??? Don’t you mean most of the projects? Jane when you say something like that it just shows me you do not care about the truth. You should read my post ” Neil of Sydney, on February 22nd, 2009 at 10:20 pm Said:” on this page to see some of the projects it funded. 1,350 projects, some disasters, some average and some wonderful.

    “Albanese is having them fast-tracked ”

    According to the Sunrise link, after abolishing the funding he is going to re-examine the applications. He may fund some of them if he can find alternative funding.

    http://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/b/sunrise/9174/albanese-responds-to-claims-of-slashed-funding

  229. What has NSW state politics got to do with Regional Rortnerships, Neil? According to the link, they couldn’t pay for the project and fyi, I don’t live in NSW, so your confected outrage and strawman argument is wasted on me.

    “A scathing report by Commonwealth auditor-general Ian McPhee yesterday found the program, designed to help fund community projects in regional areas, was little more than a pork-barrelling fund for marginal coalition electorates.” (my emphasis)

    I’d hardly call the above a ringing endorsement of the program, would you? And its implication is that far from being a few little lapses in judgement, the auditor-general regarded the entire program as little more than a pork-barrelling slush fund for marginal coalition electorates.

    That suggests that there were more than just a few instances of corrupt and dishonest conduct. But even if there were just a few as you’re trying hard to believe, it’s completely unacceptable by any standards, except apparently yours.

    What next, police corruption is OK if there’s only a few instances?

  230. Regional generosity needs explaining:

    …The Regional Partnerships Program replaced earlier regional pork-barrelling programs that had been hastily developed in response to Pauline Hanson’s One Nation party that threatened the Coalition in its first and second terms.

    What made the Regional Partnerships Program so effective at selective pork-barrelling was that it was project based, had specific time limits and, most importantly, left the final decision with the Minister for Transport and Regional Services (and later a committee of ministers)…

    …The real issue with Regional Partnership grants, as highlighted by the Auditor-General, was their lack of transparency in how governments decided their allocations.

    Too easily the program was seen by those in office as “theirs” to decide how to allocate, rather than ours, the taxpayers, to assess whether they are worthwhile.

  231. What has NSW state politics got to do with Regional Rortnerships, Neil?
    Jane

    You asked me a question about the railway. i assumed you were talking about the the North West program i mentioned. if you didn’t ask me the question i would not have provided an answer.

    ““A scathing report by Commonwealth auditor-general Ian McPhee yesterday found the program, designed to help fund community projects in regional areas, was little more than a pork-barrelling fund for marginal coalition electorates.””

    I do not agree. Dishonest leftoid journalists lifted all the bad things from the report and magnified them out of all proportion.

    You could do this with anything. The fact is 97% of the grant followed PS advice. Also it was an unusual audit. The problems were fixed while the audit was proceeding rather than the report released then the problems fixed.

    “the auditor-general regarded the entire program as little more than a pork-barrelling ”

    Did he or is this what you want to believe??? Have you read the report or only read reports from dishonest leftoids with an agenda to push???

    Please show me where McPhee said this

  232. Neil, name me a leftoid journalist. Andrew Bolt, perhaps? Maybe Ms Albrechtsen…..?

    And I read the link that you provided as evidence that Regional Rortnerships was kosher. Don’t get snitchy with me because it doesn’t say what you want it to. Obviously the rorting was serious enough for the auditor-general to make that remark.

    If what was reported in the press was “reports from dishonest leftoids with an agenda to push” and he had been deliberately and so inaccurately reported, he would have demanded a correction, wouldn’t he? But of course he did no such thing, so as usual your faux outrage is just so much hot air.

    Read kitty’s link in her comment on February 26th, 2009 at 1:32 am from a report published by the Courier Mail, a publications which could hardly be described as “leftoid”.

    As for your absurd claim that Kevin Rudd said there would be no federal funding for this northwest rail link because there were no votes in it, you should read your own link a little more carefully.

    According to the report, Rudd was believed to have made that statement. So, tell me, did he say it? Or is just another example of a report from a dishonest rwdb with an agenda to push?

  233. he would have demanded a correction, wouldn’t he?”

    I don’t know. He’s a Public Servant isn’t he?? Are PS’s allowed to comment on media reports. I saw only leftoids give the RPS scheme bad press. jane in case you do not know- a lot of people hate John Howard. The hate is so bad they will tell lies about him.

    I remember being told many times by leftoids that JH changed the way unemployment was measured to make the figures looked better. Made no sense to me. Turns out it was a load of rubbish.

    “According to the report, Rudd was believed to have made that statement. So, tell me, did he say it? Or is just another example of a report from a dishonest rwdb with an agenda to push?”

    This is a good point. I personally believe that even if you hate someone you can still honestly critique things they have done. This does not appear to be possible with our MSM. This is true. Rudd may or may not have said it. Did the journalist invent the comment to make Rudd look bad??? Did he put it in his story to make the story more interesting?? This is why I do not trust the MSM. People have agendas.

    The agenda of our MSM was to get Rudd elected.

  234. “The agenda of our MSM was to get Rudd elected.” (Neil).

    WTF!

  235. WTF!
    Miglo, on February 26th, 2009 at 8:59 pm Said:

    Do you have anything intelligent to say???

  236. Neil, credit where it’s due.

    You are one staunch rightard. Great survival mechanism…”nunununununu, I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you, John Howard is good, Labor is bad commie leftoid perverts, nununununu….”.

  237. “Do you have anything intelligent to say???”

    migz is plenty lucid when he’s not throwing confetti before the snadled feet of Chad & Kane.

  238. snadled feet of Chad & Kane.
    Toiletboss, on February 26th, 2009 at 9:26 pm Said

    What is Chad and Kane????

  239. “Do you have anything intelligent to say???” (Neil).

    To you? No.

    How can you expect to be taken seriously when you come out with dumbass statements like “The agenda of our MSM was to get Rudd elected.” I repeat: WTF!

    I guess you weren’t reading any of the Murdoch tabloids in the lead up to the 2007 election.

  240. “What is Chad and Kane????” (Neil).

    Here’s some intelligent advice: go to Google. G-o-o-g-l-e.

  241. How can you expect to be taken seriously when you come out with dumbass statements like “The agenda of our MSM was to get Rudd elected.” I repeat: WTF!”

    It is what i believe. What else can I say. A lot of people do not like JH. Thats O.K. But the hatred is so bad that they tells lies about him. This is not O.K.

    As for being taken seriously, I do not care. I will give my opinions. If you think I am an idiot so what. I have given my honest opinion. I can do no other.

  242. Sorry Neil, I meant “sandled” not snadled.

    No wonder you are getting confused.

  243. Toiletboss, on February 26th, 2009 at 9:52 pm Said:

    I typed into google

    “sandled chad kane”

    Not much useful came up.

  244. Neil, Tboss and I have a long history. We were even born in the same little village in the south east of SA. We share many likes and dislikes. However, he has a passionate dislike for my football team, for whom two brothers named Chad and Kane Cornes play for. He jokingly has a regular dig at me, suggesting I worship the ground they walk on.

    His mind is small.

  245. O.K.

    I typed “Chad and Kane Cornes” into google and lots of things came up.

    What has this got to do with John Howard is evil????

  246. Neil, any subject entices Tboss to bag my team. We could be talking about wheat, Egypt, Star Wars, colonial history or solitaire – it won’t stop Tboss from degenerating into the proverbial ugly football supporter.

    “What has this got to do with John Howard is evil????” I didn’t know that it was, but it would certainly be a good topic for a blog. Joni, can we please have a “John Howard is evil” blog?

    Incidentally, the Cornes’ boy’s stepmother ran for Labor in the 2007 election, but lost because of fowl play from the Liberal candidate.

  247. but lost because of fowl play from the Liberal candidate.
    Miglo, on February 26th, 2009 at 11:18 pm Said:”

    As usual it is excuses , excuses. As for JH being evil, i know this is what you believe but i think you people are crazy. I like JH. If he was evil I would not like him. However i do not like you people.

    Anyway Daffy Duck was handed a $20B surplus budget and 13 months later it is $20B in debt. If you people like this you are crazy.

    Furthermore i am going to bed. i may be back tomorrow.

  248. Neil, I could tell you were sleepy. I think it was the incoherence.

  249. “Incidentally, the Cornes’ boy’s stepmother ran for Labor in the 2007 election, but lost because of fowl play from the Liberal candidate”

    That’s exactly my point (ahem). It was never supposed to be an off topic & irreverent dig at somebody’s football team.

    As if I would ever stoop so low!

    John Howard was/is definitely evil Neil. It is an affliction suffered by all who are characterised by his peculiarly ineffective bowling action.

  250. Neil of Sydney, on February 26th, 2009 at 11:40 pm Said:

    “Anyway Daffy Duck was handed a $20B surplus budget and 13 months later it is $20B in debt. If you people like this you are crazy.”

    Earth to Neil, there’s a global financial crisis going on. The US economy is on it’s knees; it owes China $700bn and China’s not looking too sexy, Britain is a basket case, Europe has got the staggers, jobs are being shed worldwide at an incredible rate, mineral exports have slowed to a trickle and you think we’re still in boom mode?

    I do know that JWH is thought by many, many people to be an evil runt. I share their opinion. I’ve been following his career for a long time. I didn’t like the slimy git when he was first elected and I don’t like him now.

    And believe it or not, Tboss was baiting migs with his crack about the Cornes brothers.

    Tboss is an unbeliever and Miglo and I will smite him mightily with the Power song when we win the grand final and beat the Fruit Tingles in both showdowns. Ha! Ha! Ha! Miglo and I laugh in your face Tboss and will lay waste to your tv with a sea of silver and teal and black and white, the noblest colours in the AFL!!!!

  251. Good post Jane.

  252. I like JH. If he was evil I would not like him. However i do not like you people.

    JWH is evil and you still like him because you are evil and everyone you like is evil 🙂

    Don’t take it personal neil, it’s just difficult for me to understand the powerful weaponry of the conservative, (as stated by tony on the economist Hockey thread) facts and logic!

  253. Good post kittylitter.

  254. Well said, kitty.

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