Great PM statements of the past

In 2007 the former member for Bennelong said:

You have to look at everything I said during the election campaign and you will find that I repeatedly said that interest rates would always be lower under a coalition government than Labor.

Not sometimes, but always.

In 2009, we have a Labor government and we have the following after todays 100 basis poit cut.

The cash rate has not been this low since 1964, according to Bloomberg data.

Seems that the Australian public made a wise decision in dumping the former member for Bennelong for mis-truths – or could it be that interest rates are not solely the result of the Australian federal governments policies?

Advertisements

91 Responses

  1. Interest rates are a direct result of the world economy and fluctuate accordingly.

    Problem is over the last 30 years when Labor has been in power rates world wide have been higher than at other times.

    The Coalition governments have been nothing but lucky in this regard and also lucky to be in government for the last 12 years when the world prospered due to massive credit borrowings.

    At least it will now be a statement they will never be able to utter again unless they manage to have 0% interest rates on their watch in the future.

  2. cue Neil to defend Howard’s comments…

  3. Not sure if low interest rates are something Labor should be crowing about, either, under the circumstances.

  4. Tosy

    The Liberal party would certainly be crowing about them under the circumstances, just like they told us the rises before the last election were because we had never had it so good under their economic miracles and workchoices when they should have kept their mouths closed.

  5. So true Shane. Never had it so good, yet every man and his whippet could foresee the whole thing, kit and kaboodle on the verge of collapse. Probably why they lost.

  6. Has anyone here found a link to the complete PM’s manifesto…’Mien Dingo’s Breakfast’?

    It should be a good read.

    Never believed the last PM’s crap anyway!

  7. “These tax cuts are Law, L-A-W, Law!” Keating

    “By the year 1990, no Australian child will be living in poverty”. Hawke

    “I am not having hundreds of f#%king Vietnamese Balts coming into this country” Whitlam

    “I doubt all the stories that appear in the newspapers about the treatment of Cambodian people” Whitlam again, 3 years after Pol Pot started his slaughter.

    And the best………

    “There is no debate or dispute as to whether Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. He does.”
    – Kevin Rudd, Lateline, September 24, 2002.

    “Saddam has invaded his neighbours, in complete violation of international law, and he is in possession of weapons of mass destruction, which in the past he has used against his own people as well as his neighbours. None of these matters are the subject of dispute.” Kevin Rudd again.

    “There is on the face of it a natural complementarity between the two philosophical approaches and a complementarity that could be developed further in the direction of some form of conceptual synthesis…” Rudd once more.

    Point is, Howard made a pretty dumb statement on interest rates that could only very loosely be justified. During an election campaign. That statement pales when compared with these howlers.

  8. James,

    I think you’ll find that Howard and Co said similar things about Iraq and Sadamm’s WMD. Indeed, Rudd’s comments were made in reliance on what had been provided to him by the Coalition. Based on that information, many people believed that Iraq had WMDs. I think you’ll find that Labor’s position on Iraq was not to invade.

  9. Never had it so good, yet every man and his whippet could foresee the whole thing, kit and kaboodle on the verge of collapse.

    Not Kevin Rudd, Wayne Swan, or Lindsay Tanner, Min. Witness their last inflation-genie-fighting budget.

  10. Oh, nor did the Reserve Bank Board foresee it. Do I need remind you of several interest rate rises before their abrupt policy reversal? Oops.

  11. Everyone thought it, which is why it’s pretty weak to back away from the available information at the time, anyway, they don’t count because he wasn’t PM yet, so I’ll withdraw them.

  12. “Everyone thought it,”

    What rubbish. There were plenty of people saying it was BS. Problem was that anyone questioning the prevailing orthodoxy was dismissed as either ‘terrorist supporters’ or even worse that they were unhinged (ala Andrew Wilkie).

    I’m still waiting to see one of the famed people shredding machines they were supposed to have,

  13. Thing is, Tony, Min is right. Any man and his dog working in the finance caper not blinded by greed could see it coming. Howard was right too, we had never had it so good. At the time. Things have changed. The one I don’t get is the Reserve Bank. I’ve said before that they (and the Government) are playing all their cards too early. No one in their right mind is going to start spending yet. They should be working towards stability before trying to accelerate. Reef the sails, get the ship back under control, then think about adding more sail.

  14. Crap James. Talk about twisting history and I’m not going through the same proofs of the lies and deliberate misinformation used to justify the invasion, including the outright lies made by Howard, but noone in Australia lied more than Downer, who even when he had been told the evidence was false and the intelligence wrong went on in parliament to claim it as “irrefutable” evidence.

  15. James of North Melbourne, on February 3rd, 2009 at 5:31 pm Said:

    Thing is, Tony, Min is right.

    Thing is James you are wrong. So you want to just watch it all crash and burn around you so when there is stability, which will come anyway, it will cost five times as much and take five times as long to fix things.

  16. James and TOSY

    I wouldn’t be too critical of the RBA. Yes they put up rates when they could see the turmoil on the horizon (they even point to it in their notes) BUT the economy was still roaring along at that stage and still gathering speed with a cliff looming. To have cut rates or kept them on hold would have allowed companies in particular to continue borrowing to fund expansion (bear in mind that the BHP offer for Rio occured during this time). Companies that did over extend and borrow heaps are now in real strife because they can’t refinance. If the RBA had dropped rates earlier or had kept them lower than they got to it is likely that more Australian companies would be in trouble. The reality is that the extra 1/2% the RBA put in the in the system lasted for for less than 6 months. If that pushed people over the edge, then they were alread in big trouble – don’t blame the RBA for that; that extra 1/2% may have prevented more people from getting into trouble though and that is a good thing.

    James

  17. James said:
    They should be working towards stability before trying to accelerate. Reef the sails, get the ship back under control, then think about adding more sail.

    WTF? I mean seriouslty, WTF? There is no wind James! Lowering the interest rates is the equivalence of trying to fan some wind into the system. What do you expect the RBA to do to try and stimulate some demand in the economy if droppiing interest rates isn’t right?

    Lower interest rates means cheaper credit for companies wanting to invest (good thing right now) and frees up household and buisness finance to spend and employ respectively (also a good thing). By dropping another 1% today, an average mortgage ($250K) is $150/month cheaper to maintain – that is a massive cash injection into a household’s finances.

  18. Also Dave remember that the RBA also stated that the rises were in direct response to Howard’s profligacy, specifically Howard’s continuing massive electoral bribes, middle class welfare and pork.

    This is one case where government did have an influence on official interest rates and it was fully in Howard’s power to put downward pressure on them, an opportunity he passed up many times in preference to priming the electorate to spend spend spend by borrowing borrowing borrowing.

  19. Also Dave remember that the RBA also stated that the rises were in direct response to Howard’s profligacy, specifically Howard’s continuing massive electoral bribes, middle class welfare and pork.

    Please provide a link to that quote from the RBA, Adrian, if you don’t mind.

  20. Dave55, on February 3rd, 2009 at 5:44 pm

    Exactly

    I cannot understand why people want to hide their face in the sand and not admit that we did have inflationary pressures.

    I would also wonder what would have been the outcome had these not been addressed. Your analysis hits very close to the truth I think Dave55. Imagine if borrowing had been allowed to continue at the unacceptable rate it was going before all these rate rises, in the manner that howard and tip were asking people to do.

    And this from people who apparently knew what was coming.

    That is almost criminal negligence

  21. Huh, have a read of this as a pretty good summary of who believed what and why. I know it’s not as easy as simply screaming “liars” at the previous government, but it might give you a bit of an insight into what was going on at the time.

    http://www.austhink.org/monk/blix.htm

    Further, it might pay to remember that Clinton and Gore, before Bush was elected, had both said that any further defiance of UN Resolutions was likely to lead to war, with or without UN support. It was in fact Clinton that passed the Iraq Liberation Act.

  22. Tony of South Yarra, on February 3rd, 2009 at 5:21 pm Said:

    Oh, nor did the Reserve Bank Board foresee it. Do I need remind you of several interest rate rises before their abrupt policy reversal? Oops.

    Please provide a link that the RBA did not see it.

    Not Kevin Rudd, Wayne Swan, or Lindsay Tanner, Min. Witness their last inflation-genie-fighting budget.

    Where is the proof of that apart from your slant on it?

    …and just how many times do we have to supply links to you ToSY, links and sources you ignore anyway? This was discussed in depth, with sources in Blogocracy. You want the links go there and get them.

    Not that it’s going to do any good here are some links, but I now expect ToSY to provide links and sources for all his statements as he continues to call me a prevaricator.

    RBA warns of interest rate rise next month
    Aussies coping with debt levels: RBA
    Reserve Bank of Australia considers interest rate rise
    RBA warns of more possible interest rate rises
    Business Council warns against government spending
    RBA chief warns on buy-out debt.
    Cut spending or cop rate hike: RBA

    And hundreds more articles over several years, including the RBA statements if you want to chase them up. But wait for it…

    …now the retort from ToSY on semantics and/or pedantics.

  23. Dave, I won’t bother to respond to Adrian because all I’ll get is the latest from the ALP School of Propaganda, inflation, to the extent that it was high, was so largely due to increased oil prices and increased food prices, oil being out of our control and food due to the drought. Beyond that, it really wasn’t that out of control, especially given the level of the boom we were experiencing at the time. I pointed this out at the time. I also stated some time ago, and there were plenty that agreed, that there is a large psychological element to an economic downturn and that the Government and the RBA would do well to keep some cards in reserve for when the psychological fallout dissipates, and people start to think about spending again. I don’t have a problem with deficit budgets when required by the circumstances, and I think Turnbull is pretty bloody stupid to be playing that card. He ought simply to be urging caution. By the way, I’ve noticed a few economists have come out and said the same thing about not playing all the cards too early since I said it.

    There is a gale blowing, Dave, and we’re sailing against it. Problem is, the Government and the RBA are trying to take a leak off the bow.

  24. joni, how ’bout a slap – for the sake of consistency – for those who have hopped in the time machine? I mentioned an investigation of the Clintons’ fund raising (I think it was them) and you admonished me for reaching back to the mid-90s. We have comments in here about what Whitlam said and that is treated with silence by you. Consistency, where is thy arrow?

  25. Stephan… I am not on here 24 hours a day. I need some respite from this place from time to time.

  26. Wrong James whether you want to respond to me or not, which is a weak move by the way.

    Oil and food were only a part of the cause and that was plainly stated at the time. You are just looking for excuses.

    And now this psychological mumbo jumbo again, as though you can fix economies by going to a shrink. Just talk up the economy and all the ills just magically disappear, talk down the economy and we have a recession.

    Howard was plainly on a policy of getting people to spend (from the moment he got into power in fact) and was flooding the economy with money in the form of tax cuts, middle class welfare and electoral bribes, whilst actually telling people that racking up on credit was a sign of affluence and good economic management.

  27. What’s weak, Adrian, is making up platitudinal shit like “Howard’s profligacy” as the be all and end all of the financial crisis. He ran massive budget surpluses FFS! There’s plenty he did wrong, but you just go around making shit up. The guy was an ok PM, far from the best, but way better than the guy he knocked off. Then you run this quite offensive line about Costello being a religious nut. I am convinced that the ALP still regard Costello as their greatest threat given the amount of time their “supporters” spend assassinating his character.

    As for psychological mumbo jumbo, are you saying there isn’t a psychological element to a recession or depression? Because that’s all I said. If you think there isn’t, then you are simply more breathtaking stupid than I considered and you know absolutely SFA about economics.

    When did Howard tell people that “racking up on credit was a sign of affluence and good economic management.”

  28. Nice try Adrian,

    My statements are opinion, with evidence.

    You quote another party. The correct protocol when doing that is to provide a link.

    The links you now provide do not quote the Reserve bank saying “that the rises were in direct response to Howard’s profligacy, specifically Howard’s continuing massive electoral bribes, middle class welfare and pork” or anything close to that.

    I know this, without checking, because they never said such a thing. Ever.

  29. Stephan, the topic is “Great PM Statements of the Past”.

  30. James,

    to the extent that it was high, was so largely due to increased oil prices and increased food prices, oil being out of our control and food due to the drought. Beyond that, it really wasn’t that out of control, especially given the level of the boom we were experiencing at the time.

    Yes oil (and previously bananas) provided inflationary pressure but these affected the headline rate, not the underlying rate. The real inflationary costs were in labour in the construction and mining sectors and costs of materials in these sectors. The labour shortages can be blamed, at least in part, on the failure of the past Government to invest in training. The increased steel and resource prices was primarily due to China but domestic demand was also significant. When you add increased fuel costs due to high petrol prices the underlying inflation rate was appalling.

    You criticise the RBA for getting it so wrong and yet you also point to high fuel prices. The high prices was based on speculation that demand would continue to rise or at least remain strong, iron ore and coal prices were the same. It’s not that these people didn’t factor in a economic downturn based on the credit price, simply that everyone underestimated the magnitude, and speed, of the flow on effects to the real economy.

    Did Howard’s ‘bribes’ hurt inflation? Well they definately didn’t help ease it. The cash payments pumped money into consumers hands and encouraged them to spend. Other than increasing interest rates, there was nothing really to discourage them from doing so and the Government certainly wasn’t; infact the Government kept blaming one off factors for higher inflation and ignored what all those in the Mining and construction industries could see a mile off – the rate of expenditure was unsustainable. So while you may criticise Adrian’s comments about Howard’s profligacy, the fact remains that this spending showed scant regard for the situation the economy was in and, like everyone else, a lack of understanding regarding the extent of the sub-prime crisis.

  31. “What rubbish. There were plenty of people saying it was BS. Problem was that anyone questioning the prevailing orthodoxy was dismissed as either ‘terrorist supporters’ or even worse that they were unhinged (ala Andrew Wilkie).”huh

    Anybody with a remedial interest, & not a political neck to protect at the time, knew that the manufactured case for invading Iraq was utterly full of sh!t. Most of the equivocating before, during & since is ideological rhetoric.

    Still “they” defend it.

    A dangerous precedent has been set in stone, but we don’t like it if the other wouldbeagain superpowers (ie. the Russian Bear) follow the same tact, oh no, no, no.

    What a crock, to suggest that we were “all” ignorant about the lack of a justifiable reason to invade.
    I personally could smell it for months before the attrocity. Fairly obvious that consent was being carefully manufactured as the US ran its game of dissemination to an apathetic global community.

  32. Surely it was the price of bananas that caused our prices to rise – I distinctly remember them rising and affecting the CPI… 😆

    Wasn’t it Peter Custard who first used the phrase – tsunami – what did he know then?

    Could it be possible that John Howard & The Private School Bullies didn’t want to win the election anyway? 😉

    Funny how the Libs alway talk about “cleaning up the mess after Labor”, when it is the Libs who make the mess in the first place, Labor manages the crisis and then when its running OK the voters give it back – funny old world…

    Nice to see no-one disputing the “size” of our problem – this will be, historically, the worst financial disaster in modern history…

    Also nice to hear my favourite Treasurer (and PM of course) agreeing that it is not just financial but political – China is waging a covert war against the West (remember me mentioning the China Towns in every major city?) – China now holds a position of great power in the world…(thank you Mr Bush, thank you Mr Blair and thank you Mr Howard)

    …let’s hope this is just a “battle” and we haven’t lost the war…

    …whatever “our” government does is important to us each personally and nationally – but it is the world stage that is about to change dramatically – “social capitalism” has a nice ring to it…

    …we are fast approaching a major change in the way the world operates…

    …we certainly do live in interesting times…

    ———————————–
    Prosperity With Integrity!

    PS Did anyone else notice Mr Rudd having a swipe at the health industry at the end of his press conference – there may be some action coming up in that department too…?

  33. Dave, I’ll debate inflation until the cows come home with anyone prepared to do some worthwhile research and present a worthwhile argument. I’ll even declare defeat, well, maybe, if I’m wrong. My point about Adrian is that he simply trots out the same old platitudes and shifts debate when he’s wrong. Have a look at how he shifted the psychological point just earlier.

    I’m not sure what the Government could have done more than they did. It’s easy to say “infrastructure spending” but infrastructure is mainly a state responsibility and anything they tried to do they got shafted by ALP state govts. Look at water, look at roads in Victoria, anything in Victoria, really. Our infrastructure down here is stuffed. We are about to enter a period of serious problems and I’m buggered if I know how any govt will fix them. Within 2 years Victoria will be the laughing stock it was back in the 1980s. They couldn’t just keep racking up surpluses, it’s the taxpayers money after all! So whilst they may not have helped inflation, they didn’t exactly cause it either. I think towards the end Howard went a bit nuts. He started to believe some of the shit that he spoke. Costello, on the other hand, seems to have called it right at almost every turn, and isn’t deserving of the sneering crap that so many seem to want to fling his way.

  34. James, from this old voter’s perspective, and that’s all I am, Peter Custard (sorry but…well, sneer), was lazy and incompetent – the only thing he did that was innovative (disclaimer: and it did benefit me) was to remove the 15% tax on super withdrawals for 60 year olds…

    I’m afraid, economically, times were more difficult in the Hawke/Keating era…the boom was just getting under way when JWH took power – but PJK had made all the hard decisions (that sometimes hurt people but mostly helped later)…including the introduction of a Nationally Recognised Training System that was allowed to languish under JWH et al…

    ..it was also JWH et al. that sold off 49% of Telstra (Telecom) what a disaster area that’s become because of lack of foresight…and the present CEO…

    …and it IS time to look at State/Federal reponsibilities – my opinion is that I live in a country but it seems more like eight “countries” that just happen to speak the same language (apart from Mexican in Victoria of course)…health, education, rail, roads etc.

    Keep an eye out for the insurance companies…and thier problems coming up real soon…

    Go the Maroons! Oops!

  35. James of North Melbourne, on February 3rd, 2009 at 7:16 pm Said:

    Sorry James it is you who are shifting and no you won’t debate it until the cows come home and admit when you are wrong.

    You say I trot out the same old platitudes but that is exactly what you have done whilst completely ignoring the evidence of the past debates, including those in Blogocracy. Just take the point you raise on infrastructure. I don’t know how many time this has been raised and the figures posted that show the States increased their spending above CPI and inflation whereas the Howard government barely kept up with inflation, which meant it went backwards in real terms. Howard’s was a bereft government.

    The old beat the States over the head as they are such a convenient scapegoat which is why the Howard government never stopped blaming the states for anything and everything even when it was proven they were in the wrong, not the states.

    Let’s not forget James that the Howard government even blamed the states for the rising interest rates yet when interest rates were low they took the credit “despite the states stuffing things up”.

  36. It seems that never a week goes by without bagging the last PM…it amuses me how both sides of the political spectrum refer to history as an argument to justify their view of the present politics…no wonder this nation is meandering on the road to nowhere!

    While we continually ruminate the past other nations are just getting on with the job and leaving us to eat their economic dust…instead of thought we have to act if we have any chance of catching up…we got to pass on a better nation to the future generations!

  37. Toiletbloke, on February 3rd, 2009 at 7:10 pm Said:

    I personally could smell it for months before the attrocity. Fairly obvious that consent was being carefully manufactured as the US ran its game of dissemination to an apathetic global community.

    You and so many others.

    There were a bunch of us on a forum debating this thing months before the invasion, just when the rhetoric was being ramped up. There were about half a dozen Yanks who visited the forum, split down the middle between rednecks and moonbats.

    There were so many of us that stated there are no WMD of any significance left in Iraq (that was easy to ascertain) and that the US would invade no matter what.

    Then when the weapons inspectors asked for just three more months to prove once and for all that Saddam didn’t possess WMD and could not be a threat the US ordered them out and invaded, as they had planned years before, just waiting for the right excuse.

    I still can’t believe there are people who believe that this was not about oil and strategic positioning of the US, as the largest embassy ever built and manned by up to 6000 staff proves.

  38. scaper…, on February 3rd, 2009 at 8:16 pm Said:

    Go to the political blogs of just about any free nation on the planet and they talk about their past political leaders and parties.

    How else do you compare and learn about mistakes if it is not to look at how those in the past conducted themselves and analyse the mistakes they made.

    Rudd will make a lot of mistakes and has made plenty already, and do you think the day his government is voted out the RW blogs and media will stop talking about him or putting the boot in. If Whitlam/Hawke/Keating are anything to go by they will be talking about Rudd for many decades after he’s gone. Turnbull raised Whitlam in parliament at least three times over the last week.

  39. scaper…

    Yes, but it is worth reflecting on the past to avoid making the same mistakes. The reality is that the current Government will be compared against past Governments because they are the only meaningful benchmarks we have – so far Rudd IMO is doing reasonably well given the current global finacial situation. I would have loved to have seen what he would do had he the continued surplusses that Howard had but unfortunately he wont. One good thing out of all this is that hopefully it will get rid of the ‘deficits and Gov’t borrowing is bad’ paradigm that Howard almost had entrenched – I’d hate to see what the last Government would have done in the present situation when they had fenced themselves into a corner by saying that deficits were a sign of bad management – I just can’t see them swallowing their pride and making the hard decisions that needed to be made.

  40. ” still can’t believe there are people who believe that this was not about oil and strategic positioning of the US, as the largest embassy ever built and manned by up to 6000 staff proves”

    I may have missed it but I’m sure the RWDB’s are having a field day at the moment proclaiming the recent Iraqi elections as more irrefutable proof of the legitimacy of the invasion; as if that somehow excuses the arrogant flouting of international law & enshuing years of bloodshed, destruction of infrastructure & fragmentation of Iraqi society.

    “Then when the weapons inspectors asked for just three more months to prove once and for all that Saddam didn’t possess WMD and could not be a threat the US ordered them out and invaded, as they had planned years before, just waiting for the right excuse.”

    As you say, it was inevitable, obvious, transparent, opportunistic, deceitful, negligent, preordained & paid for in blood.
    I just KNEW, with far more insight than the apologist mob who (still) claim righteousness, that they were gonna go in…no matter what happened. The UN Inspectors (correctly) state that the WMD’s were a non-
    event, well f@ck the UN we don’t need them, our muscle (not as staunch as we originally thought as it turns out) invalidates & trumps wider concerns.
    The inevitability of it, & our own PM’s ideological brown-nosing in support, only made the eventual act of war the more despairing & repugnant in my eyes.

  41. On a more progressive note.
    Dad told me that the Iraqi government (perhaps the judicial system, more likely) has outlawed Blackwater, Cheney/Bush’s private mercenaries.
    Not sure of the veracity of this but if it’s true then it’s a positive step forward for the rule of Iraqi Law (rather than US corporate impunity) that’s a long time coming.

  42. Adrian,

    Speaking of Turnbull’s referencing of Whitlam, did you understand his reference to Orwell? When talking about the budget defecit this FY of $22Bn, he said:
    It is as Whitlamesq in it’s dimensions, as the Prime Minister’s political writings are Orwellian. (sorry – no reference – was from QT today (I think) and replayed on PM this evening)
    WTF? If my writing was equated to Orwell’s I’d be stoked – and at any rate, Animal Farm was a satire of Communism, not a ringing endorsement of it.

    As I said on the Bishop Bashing thread, Turnbull and the Libs are hung up on Rudd’s essay and it is causing them to talk nonsense when linking the two.

    BTW, what is the block quote html coding?

  43. Just a personal observation that we are going nowhere due to the inadequacy of decades of mediocre government that is getting worse!

    It’s kind of “if you think I’m bad what about so and so”…blah, blah, BLAH!

    Schoolgirl stuff in my opinion.

  44. Dave55

    <blockquote>

  45. Thanks Tom, I thought it might be that but was too lazy to try or look it up 😉

  46. I unfortunately turned up at this site and once again saw a waste of space for a topic. I am sick of hearing about John Howard. In case you people do not know he lost the last election.

    Prime Minister SuperDudd is about to get us back into debt again after 11 hard years of paying back $96B of ALP stupidity. What has the ALP in store for us this time. Perhaps 20% unemployment instead of 11%??? Perhaps $200B of govt debt instead of $96B.

    It is easy to get into debt but it takes many years to get out of debt if ever.

    You do not talk about ALP policies because there is no success stories. What about the “Education revolution”. Broadband everywhere the ALP proclaims. We will do something about climate change by signing Coyote protocol but will give lots of money to help build motorcars.

    Spin, spin, spin.

    it must be nice that the ALP has such strong supporters that no matter dishonest the ALP is you people still vote for this dishonest political party.

    PS. Glenn Stevens should be sacked. He did not start cutting interest rates until September 2008. He is paid a lot of money to have his finger on the pulse. If he knew about the GFC he should have started cutting sooner.

  47. Neil obviously worships at the Altar of Surpluses.

    Nice place that, as long as the economy is ticking over nicely and all those resources-boom dollars are rolling-on in.

    You can kick-back, sip the Mai-Tai and count the money.

    Of course, once things head south and we slide into a recession (or worse), the Altar of Surpluses becomes a very nasty place indeed, more like a Mayan pyramid (replete with human sacrifices). If private investment shrivels-up and shuts-down and people start losing their jobs en-masse, the only thing that’s gonna stimulate the economy is Government Spending. That’s right, old fashioned pump-priming.

    And if you have to run into Deficit to do it, then that’s what any sensible Government does. If it doesn’t, but keeps worshiping at the Altar of Surpluses, the problem only accelerates: Jobs dry-up and we all go onto the susso.

    Deficits can have a very useful function. Sometimes, like now, they are an absolute necessity.

  48. PS. Glenn Stevens should be sacked. He did not start cutting interest rates until September 2008. He is paid a lot of money to have his finger on the pulse. If he knew about the GFC he should have started cutting sooner.

    He couldn’t could he, ‘cos drunken sailor Howard was running around chucking money all over the place with gay abandon, trying to bribe people to vote for him and his rancid ministry.

    Someone had to behave responsibly to make up for the recklessness of Howard or Costello.

  49. Dave55, on February 3rd, 2009 at 8:45 pm Said:

    BTW, what is the block quote html coding?

    http://www.w3schools.com/tags/default.asp

    Also if you want to make inserting HTML tags very easy then use Firefox and a Add-on called bbCode. With that add-on all you have to do is select the text or insertion point, right click, select bbCode and then whatever code you want from the list. It has both HTML and BBCode lists and allows you to put your own custom codes into the list.

    I have noticed that a lot of the codes don’t work here, like font size and font colour.

  50. Here’s the link to BBCode for anyone interested; https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/128

  51. Neil of Sydney, on February 4th, 2009 at 12:40 am

    Well Neil tell us how Howard if he had won would have kept the budget in surplus?

    If ANY government does absolutely nothing and does not spend on anything over the next four years it would still be 40 to 50 billion in debt due to the reduction in revenue caused by the GFC.

    So that means to put us in surplus the government, whilst not spending a cent on essentials services and running the government, would have to slash and burn and get rid of more than 50 billion dollars from government over four years.

    As great as you think Howard and Costello are and as mean spirited I know they are, even they would not have done that as it would have bought the country to its knees and caused unbelievable hardship for a very large number of people.

    Talking of Costello, I notice that he was playing the clown again last night, no let me rephrase that, I notice he was the clown again last night.

    Lot’s of doom and gloom about Labor stuff and how bad their handling of the economy is, but would not answer one question on what he would do and what tactics he would employ to tackle the crisis. Then he had the hide to say that Labor claiming it would eventually pay down the debt is easy talk.

    These types of attacks by the opposition on the government’s actions are free kicks for the government as all around the opposition, almost without exception, different groups are saying how good the government’s actions are. Last night the pensioner groups praised the government even though they got nothing this time, but as the spokesman said the last lot of payments will see them through to the reforms in the next budget.

    So then the opposition gives yet another free kick in front of the goals and waffles on about the “quality of the spending”. Heard that one before and how well it went down the previous time they used that line of attack on the government.

  52. Damn forgot the links, too early in the morning.

    Here is Costello’s laugh a minute clown act; http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2481545.htm

    Here is the link to the praise for Rudd’s actions by a Liberal Premier; http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,25005336-5017005,00.html

  53. Adrian of Nowra, on February 3rd, 2009 at 6:24

    I just checked the first of your links – from November 2007 – and what do you know? The RBA gives their reasons for interest rate rises. Far from being damning of the Howard government, they say the following:

    The bank pointed to a strong domestic economy as a key factor behind its decision to raise rates last week.

    It said recent data had shown strong growth in the Australian economy, high business and consumer confidence and a tight labour market.

    I haven’t looked at the other links, but I’m sure we would find more of the same.

  54. No Tony, the RBA distinctly pointed out the profligate government spending at the time of a strong and expanding economy as being one of the factors in its decision to continue to raise interest rates.

    It warned the Howard government several times on this matter and It also warned both parties leading up to the 2007 election about their large spending promises.

    Do you believe at a time of a steaming economy that needed to be tempered that the government of the time throwing billions into stoking the fires was not going to be a factor?

  55. More on Costello and revealing;

    http://economics.com.au/?p=2395
    http://economics.com.au/?p=2393

    Interesting that Joshua Gans contends that Rudd is actually being very fiscally conservative and compares that to what Whitlam actually did. It illustrates just how far off the mark the opposition are in attacking the government using Whitlam and socialism as a reference, yet here they were doing it again this morning.

    By the way the opposition have cancelled just about all their planned media appearances for today.

  56. Interesting links Adrian, although, I haven’e read the last one yet.

    I was interested to hear tip carping on about how well he had insulated our banks with APRA (wasn’t that just bringing three or four authorities under one roof, not bad, but defintiely not mind blowing in its ingenuity) even though they were haemmoraging from exposure until the ‘reckless’ bank gaurantee.

    And I think we are going to be hearing a lot about deficits from them in the coming years.

    Wonder why they cancelled the media shows, perhaps they are on a full scale search for bishops feet?

  57. James and Tony

    Yes infrastructure is a state responsibility so if the Federal Surplus was in such wonderful shape why didn’t the previous government give money to the states to fix our crumbling infrastructure like the current government is doing. Could it have been blind ideology preventing them from doing the right thing for australian citizens. Instead we received 10 years of harping about state govenrments wasting money. If the previous government had given the states their advertising budget then maybe our infrastructure would be in much better shape.

    The pure facts are our economy boomed along for the previous 15 years as a result of 2 things. 1) The boom in China feeding an insatiable appetitie for our minerals. 2) Borrowings by everyone to implement a make believe wealth based on property prices and shares.

    We are now reaping the results of what happens to number 2) when number 1) starts to decline.

    People cheer the government for paying off government debt, Yes that is fine, but the debt simply moved from public debt to private debt and now we have governments world wide bailing out private companies because of their debt levels, so it doesn’t matter where the debt is, in the end tax payers pay for the escesses of capitalism either way. Could well happen here too.

    Problem is paying off debt by selling all your assets leaves you with nothing to own and no influence on your nation, but rather more pressure from the very businesses you sold to run their own agenda. Example : Telstra.

    Mining is cyclical and I experienced 2 booms and busts in my years in the Bank and now another one. Prices rise and prices fall based on the economic positions of other countries. It was a falsehood miracle boom time claimed by the Howard government as a result of their miracle economic management.

    I find it amazing that when interest rates rise under labor goverments they are bad and a result of economic mismanagement.

    When interest rates rise under a Coalition they are good and a result of a strongly growing economy and therefore a result of our superior economic policies.

    I think any person would find those type of reasonings hypocritical.

  58. Tom R, on February 4th, 2009 at 8:13 am Said:

    Wonder why they cancelled the media shows, perhaps they are on a full scale search for bishops feet?

    According to ABC Breakfast they did the same when the government’s ETS White Paper was released.

    They have learnt their lesson in having a whole bunch of their ministers in different media outlets spruiking contradictory messages, so now on any major government action or announcement they cancel all press engagements, meet and work out a coordinated strategy to kick the government with and then hit the RWDB media hacks with that.

  59. He couldn’t could he, ‘cos drunken sailor Howard was running around chucking money all over the place with gay abandon, trying to bribe people to vote for him and his rancid ministry
    kittylitter, on February 4th, 2009 at 1:28 am Said:

    I find comments like this strange. Costello was running billion dollar surpluses and you accuse him of reckless spending. You leftoids just make things up.

    In one of the links Adrian gave the Reserve Bank said this “The bank pointed to a strong domestic economy as a key factor behind its decision to raise rates last week.”

    Our low unemployment rate was boosting spending giving rise to inflationary pressures. I did not see any reference to electoral bribes , middle class welfare or pork as reasons the Reserve Bank gave for inflationary pressures..

    You leftoids just invent stories.

  60. Neil,

    It’s possible to run a surplus and also spend recklessly. We’re (or at least I’m) not critical of the surplusses per se, what we are critical of is how the other money was spent. IMO much of it should have been directed at infrastructure and skills training rather than cash bonuses to the middle class. Howard and Costello always made the argume that extra tax intake should be returned to the people; well axtra spending on skills and infrastructue does return the money to the people, just in a different way.

    Still, what would I know – according to you I’m just a leftoid.

  61. We make things up, eh?

    The authors say Mr Costello expresses concerns at the sustainability of the amount of money the Federal Government is spending at the Prime Minister’s insistence.

    “I have to foot the bill and that worries me,” Mr Costello said.

    “And then I start thinking about not just footing the bill today but if we keep building in all these things, footing the bill in five, and 10 and 15 years and you know I do worry about the sustainability of all these things.”

    See – Costello was worried. And I am pretty sure he is not a leftoid.

  62. Adrian of Nowra, on February 3rd, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    One thing that has always puzzled me about the search for WMD in Iraq…

    …knowing that Bush, Rumsfedt, Chaney and Wolferwitz were all conniving idealogues with no obvious scruples…

    …and knowing that the US government fabricated “evidence” of WMD – even in the UN…

    …why didn’t they “fabricate” the “discovery” of WMD out in the desert, away from the “action”, somewhere…?

    …would have saved them a lot of heartache now and certainly in the furure…

  63. From Neil: I find comments like this strange. Costello was running billion dollar surpluses and you accuse him of reckless spending. You leftoids just make things up.

    One interpretation of reckless spending is failure to plan for the future.

    Another example is at: http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/hey-big-spender-thats-our-money/2007/05/17/1178995319873.html

    This year, for ad campaigns already announced, the Howard Government will be spending $173.8 million of our money, excluding advertising by the Defence Department. This is only the spending we know about.

  64. Was going to respond to Neil however Dave @ 9.39 and joni at 9.42 said it well enough.

  65. joni, on February 4th, 2009 at 9:42 am Said:

    Well Joni- thanks for the link. Finally someone provides a link related to the question. In none of Adrians links did the Reserve Bank say inflationary pressures were due to Howards spending. The pressures were due to a booming economy. I think thats what the NAIRU kerfuffle was about when daffy duck was asked whats is Australia’s NAIRU in parliament. When unemployment decreases inflationary pressures increase. We had gotten to an unemployment level not seen for 30 years and this was causing trouble with inflation.

    But don’t worry, the ALP will solve this. Wack up unemployment back to 10% like Labor did last time and inflationary pressures will disappear.

    And thanks for the link. Although it does not say that the spending was causing inflationary problems.

  66. This strikes me as a classic line from a PM who dreamed for a whole lifetime of imposing SerfChoices-type cuts to workers’ pay and conditions:

    “If change makes people worse off, it is not reform” ~John Howard, 1995

    via The Sun-Herald, 17 August 2003
    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/16/1060936101890.html

  67. (… though obviously he wasn’t PM when he said it)

  68. Neil

    Your comment was shot down so you then retort with the usual right wing diatribe of unemployment.

    Please beat a different drum for once.

  69. TB Queensland, on February 4th, 2009 at 9:51 am

    I imagine it’s a bit like the great anthrax scare of 2001. Anthrax? Oh, it’s tested as being yours. And why do you have anthrax and the ability to produce tonnes of anthrax per week? It’s quite easy to forge documents, it’s much harder to forge physical articles and give them a pedigree; or to deny a pedigree; or to avoid questions once a real or forged pedigree is discovered for them. And dats why we had the UN Inspectorate seal the data on Iraq’s WMDs forever back in 2006. Anyways, all the Iraqi WMDs were shifted to evil Syria before being discovered in Iraq, so the Iraqi data on those WMDs should stay under seal and off-limits at US request, and not be cross-referenced with Syria’s claim that Israel salted the mine when it blew up the desert ‘pumping station’.

  70. Your comment was shot down so you then retort with the usual right wing diatribe of unemployment.
    shaneinqld, on February 4th, 2009 at 10:10 am Said:

    Nope- i still have not seen a link where the Reserve Bank stated that howard govt spending was causing inflationary problems. The “problem” was caused by our booming economy with unemployment at 30 year lows. Apparently unemployment and inflation go together. It is hard to keep inflation and unemployment low at the same time. One tends to cancel out the other.

  71. Neil of Sydney, on February 4th, 2009 at 10:02 am Said: But don’t worry, the ALP will solve this. Wack up unemployment back to 10% like Labor did last time and inflationary pressures will disappear.

    Neil, governments don’t control employment, it is tied to market forces in a capitalist society.

    Governments can influence, record (and in some instances manipulate) the figures but employment, apart from government employees and public servants, is largely conducted by free enterprise organisations – that’s why employees are often referred to as human RESOURCE…(not a term many of us in HR really like, BTW).

    When demand for supply is high – business employs more people – when demand is low, guess what…

    This is a GLOBAL recession …its not really the ALP’s fault…just as the Coalition wasn’t responsible for the boom… its a cycle…

  72. I’m also confused as to how much is lost from the revenue

    I heard it being bandied that it would be down $50 billion, mainly through lost mining, and tip said only $9 billion on the lateline interview.

    Anybody be able to clear this up for me?

    I mean, tip is prob right, if they didn’t spend $42billion (plus the already spent $10 billion) we probably wouldn’t run into deficit. But then again, the pain to come would be much greater. And if they are spending these massive amounts, plus losing massive amounts, then there accounting has to be far superior to that of the previous years. I mean, tip didn’t even know how much he had a mere month out from it.

    Which brings me to the biggest issue I have with ‘free market fundamentalist’s’s. This is apparently merely the market ‘re-adjusting’ itself. Which is the way it should be (according to them). Why, then, must I suffer for this friggin’ almighty Market? I haven’t been speculative. I have saved (which is now apparently all going to get spent before I can receive the dole)

    Is there not a better way to do it without putting people through all this pain of redundancies and possible bankrupcies, all because the almighty Market needs to work itself out. I mean, I am not in any way in control of the market, but I am paying for its shortfalls. The poor old CEO’s (who ARE in charge), do not appear to be hurting.

    Why the hell can’t We work the market out before the fan is this coated? It seems that this is all Rudds essay is saying, no matter how much the RWDB want to call it Whitlamesque.

  73. Coalition will oppose the Stimulus APckage

    iberal sources have told smh.com.au this morning that the mood within the Coalition was to oppose the package and suggest alternative measures instead, including tax cuts.

    The Coalition has now cut itself it out of the equation and forced the Government to rely on the Greens, Nick Xenophon and Steve Fielding in the Senate.

    Labor deliberately excluded tax cuts from the paxckage because they impose a permanent cost on the budget bottom line and make it harder to restore the budget to surplus.

    Furthermore, there are already tax cuts scheduled for July 1 which will act as a further stimulus.

    But Mr Turnbull still wants those tax cuts to be brought forward.

    Exactly what will moving forward the tax cuts 3-4 months do (other than increase business admin costs) that the cash handouts wont? Dumb dumb dumb.

  74. Neil

    Amazing, rates go up under Liberal and its because the economy is booming.

    Rates go up under Labor and its because the economy is being destroyed.

    Can you not see the hypocrisy in those comments Neil ?

    As for our booming economy it was a smoke screen based on borrowings and now the result of these borrowings are coming home to roost.

  75. Legion, on February 4th, 2009 at 10:11 am Said:

    …but Legion we know which country has the largest stockpile of WMD – how easy to ship some to the Iraqi desert?

  76. Lot’s of doom and gloom about Labor stuff and how bad their handling of the economy is, but would not answer one question on what he would do and what tactics he would employ to tackle the crisis.

    We know what Costello would do, he would sell everything of value that he could get his hands on. Only now there is nothing left to sell off eg Telstra, govt. buildings etc. all gone. It’s easy to crow about surpluses when you sell off the nation’s assets. Yep, sell to the taxpayer what we already own.

    No, minister, your claims are nonsense (February 24, 2003)

    “The Government has been assiduous in promoting the impression that it has repaid $61 billion in debt since it has come to office, because this sits more comfortably with the fact that the Government has sold $58 billion worth of public assets.”

    * And what a fine mess was made of the telstra sale too, by not dividing it up first.

  77. “Can you not see the hypocrisy in those comments Neil ?shaneinqld, on February 4th, 2009 at 10:25 am Said:”

    Yes i can. Makes no sense to me. Japan has has low interest rates for years but it is in recession. i do not claim to understand economics.

    But Adrian was saying that inflationary pressures was due to Howards spending. When unemployment reaches 4% we will always have inflationary troubles. The amazing thing is that Howard/Costello got all three at the same time. Low unemployment, low inflation and pretty low interest rates.

    i think an economist will tell you that this is impossible- but Howard/Costello did it.

    Thats what the NAIRU kerfuffle was about (I think). Is is 6% unemployment. Nope- Costello smashed through 6% unemployment and kept inflation low. Was it 5% unemployment. No- Costello smashed through 5%. He then took unemployment to around 4% and we were starting to get inflationary pressure.

    i know it sounds evil but an economist will say that some unemployment is good.

  78. Tom R @ 10.24

    You are so correct, the reason we cannot fix things before it gets this bad is this.

    Since the election of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan and then John Howard. The worlds elite and wealthy have screamed loud and long into their ears regarding the overwhelming certainty of a pure capitalist system. Sell everyething every government owns off to big business thereby concentrating even more of the wealth, removing any influence the government has in those areas of the publics welfare as a government has no right whatsoever to own anything that private enterprise can suck more money out of by sacking hundreds of thousands of workers in the name of productivity and profits.Permit the supply and demand price ethos to infect every area of society even if the item is an essential service like water or electricity.

    Well the big got bigger and greedier to the extent that they can no longer be permitted to collapse as it would destroy the country. Amazing the government ran them for 100 years employed many hundreds of thousends of more employees and paid good but not extreme wages to management. Now they pay exhorbitant wages to CEOswho are abandoning the ships everywhere to make sure they keep their hundreds of millions and watch form the sidelines as the infrastructure they allowed ot be destroyed by paying ridiculous dividends resluts in the massive inconvienience to the whole population through breakdowns.

  79. That was raised TB, and I’m sure they were very tempted to do exactly that, and some part did attempt to do that. Hope this isn’t going to make a long post.

    OK Saddam had a known amount of WMD and due to the inspections after the first Gulf war 95 to 96% of those WMD were accounted for and most destroyed. That info is available from UNSCOM. So what they were searching for was the unaccounted for 4 to 5% of known WMD and maybe a very small quantity of unknown stuff.

    Out of the remaining known stuff UNSCOM estimated that due to the short shelf life of the chemicals and biological agents involved only 1 to 2% maybe still viable.

    Then Saddam did the stupid thing in playing cat and mouse with the inspectors which played right into America’s hands, along with America sabotaging the inspection effort (ToSY gunna jump on that one). I think Saddam knew that the US was going to invade no matter what and was attempting to bluff to stop the inevitable invasion. In the end Saddam opened up all sites, his palaces and documents to the inspections with no conditions attached, and this was the trigger for the US to pull the inspectors out and invade. At that time with Iraq fully opened to them the inspectors said they only needed 3 months to prove irrefutably if Saddam had any viable WMD or WMD program, the other trigger for the US to cut short the inspections and invade.

    Also remember when all this was going on the US were using the inspections to spy on Saddam and had inserted their agents into UNSCOM. Saddam discovered this and called a halt to the inspections, which was his right as what the US was doing is illegal and against all international treaties on using UN and NGO agencies for nefarious purposes. The US used Saddam halting the inspections as an excuse to ramp up the rhetoric and propaganda against him.

    OK, three incidents where the US attempted to make out Saddam had viable WMD.

    1. A large amount of 44gal drums was found buried near a factory by US forces. Analysis showed these drums had contained chemical WMD agents. These drums actually proved UNSCOM’s claims as it turned out the chemicals had deteriorated so much because of age that they had become completely ineffectual, which is why the drums had been buried by the Iraqis.

    2. A milk powder factory that had been monitored for years (cameras, unannounced inspections etc.) because these factories are very easy to parallel manufacture milk powder and biological precursors for WMD. The US proved that the deliberate dismantling of the monitoring equipment proved the factory was being duel purposed. When investigators went in to check the US’s claim it turned out the factory had been completely shut down for many years as the sanctions meant it could no longer get the raw materials to make milk powder.

    3. The infamous mobile WMD factories in trucks and rail carriages. There was enough coverage on this and how it turned out to be a US attempt at deception on making it look like Saddam still had a viable WMD program.

    So now we come to the main reason why the US could not have planted their own WMD to frame Saddam.

    All WMD are unique to the manufacturing process, and that includes nuclear. UNSCOM knew the fingerprints of Saddam’s WMD so the US could not have planted their own and passed them off as Saddam’s. They may have been able to plant some generic precursors but even that would have been fraught with difficulties.

    Then there would have been the logistics of clandestinely moving substantial amounts of WMD and WMD raw materials from the US to Iraq using only a handful of trusted agents.

    Finally there was the considerable risk of being found out and then the massive world wide repercussions.

    Lot’s more stuff flashed through my mind but that will do for now.

  80. Neil

    An amount of unemployment is inevitable in any country I totally agree. What we seem to disagree on is why unemployment went down for the previous years.

    Unemployment came down as a direct result of the mining boom and the flow on effects to our economy. It doesnt matter what employment laws are in place if our minerals are in demand people will be employed. The mining boom was starting when the Howard Government was elected, it would have happened no matter who was in power

    Unemployment also came down as a result of anyone working more than 2 hours a week being removed form the unemployment rate.

    Unemployment also came down because many small buinesses were created as a result of employers demanding their staff be re engaged as sub contracters or private contractors and perform the same work. This saved employers Long Service Leave, Holiday Pay, Sick Leave and even any income if there was no work for the the day. All responsibility was thrown at the worker who then were forced to compete against their former work colleagues for jobs.

  81. “Unemployment came down as a direct result of the mining boom and the flow on effects to our economy.
    shaneinqld, on February 4th, 2009 at 10:46 am Said:”

    Hay Shane. You are talking leftoid heresy. Our low unemployment rate is due to the reforms of Keating/Hawke. These reforms did not work when Keating was in power. However by magic they started to work in 1996 and then stopped working in November 1997.

    I guess these things happen.

    PS. please can some leftoid give me a link where the Reserve Bank says inflationary pressures were due to Howard spending like a drunken sailor

  82. The Opposition is stating that they refuse to pass the economic stimulis:

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/opposition-to-vote-against-rudds-42-billion-package-20090204-7x4q.html

    Turnbull – that we need to be more prudent.

  83. Neil look at the figures, unemployment had been going down before Howard took office and every economist and economic institution had the economic boom starting at least two to three years before Howard got into power.

    As much as the RWDBs like to attempt to write their own version of history the good didn’t start the moment Howard was elected in 1996 and stop the day he was rightly booted out in 2007.

  84. Have a read of this link from The World Today in 2005 where Ken Henry warned of a major correction in the US.

    Last night Dr Henry told a meeting of treasurers from Asian nations that he fears the huge US current account deficit is unsustainable, drawing a parallel with the “irrational exuberance” that proceeded the dot-com bust in 2001.

    And here is what Howard said:

    JOHN HOWARD: There’s no prospect, in my view, if you’re asking me for my view, there is no prospect of the American economy crashing.

    STEPHEN LONG: Speaking on Melbourne radio, the Prime Minister dismissed the idea that the US deficit could cause a global economic crash.

    JOHN HOWARD: No, it’s not. That’s alarmist talk. I think the word crash in the minds of most people, when you see it in a headline, is associated with 1929, isn’t it?

    And here on the inflationary pressures of Howard.

    STEPHEN LONG: John Howard is at odds with the Reserve Bank as well as his Treasury boss. Today he effectively dismissed the RBA’s concerns about wage inflation.

    JOHN HOWARD: Inflation is still very low. The wage price… wage cost index, rather, that came out a few days ago was quite moderate, and didn’t show any sign to me and to many economists that wages in this country were starting to accelerate unacceptably, which is one of the things that sometimes provokes central banks into tightening monetary policy.

  85. … the opposition are in attacking the government using Whitlam and socialism as a reference

    Turnbull’s invoking of the name Whitlam is an attempt to establish contact with the core Liberal base: the elderly, rusted-on anti-Labor set. They’re the only ones around who would

    a) remember the Whtilam era; and
    b) nurse lingering resentment towards EGW.

    Seems Turnbull might be floundering with the core Liberal base. He’s probably too liberal (small ifor those IlLibberals.

  86. Adrian of Nowra, on February 4th, 2009 at 10:37 am Said: All WMD are unique to the manufacturing process, and that includes nuclear. UNSCOM knew the fingerprints of Saddam’s WMD so the US could not have planted their own and passed them off as Saddam’s.

    Thanks, Adrian, I think the quote above is probably the real reason, I suspect that the “clandestine movement” is a practised art for “black ops…and wouldn’t pose a real difficulty…wouldn’t need much in the way of “proof”…I do remember the “inspectorate duel” but i was really referring to after the “Mission Accomplished” banner went up – the US had a little more freedom of movement than before GWII.

    ________________________________________

    Neil of Sydney, on February 4th, 2009 at 10:56 am Said: These reforms did not work when Keating was in power. However by magic they started to work in 1996 and then stopped working in November 1997.

    Neil, you really are having us on, aren’t you?

    Economies are like bloody great tankers – they take a lot of time to get up to speed, they take ages to turn around and they take forever to slow down…PJK got the ship heading in the right direction, JWH just had to steer it – didn’t check the map of where we were heading and we’ve ended up on the rocks…

    Its Rudds job now to slowly extricate us, repair the ship and get back on course…then of course the Libs will come along and mutiny – grab the wheel and head into the sun…. 😉

    If you implement a personal budget today, you may not start to see the effects of it for over a month, some over years…

  87. You mean that because of Turnbull my 85 year old mother doesn’t get the insulation for her house????

  88. “And here on the inflationary pressures of Howard.
    joni, on February 4th, 2009 at 11:12 am Said:”

    Sorry Joni i read the link but still no reference to Howards spending producing inflationary pressure. There was mentioned a concern about wage inflation not Howards spending. I think this is indexing wages to the inflation rate. We had inflationary pressures because of a booming economy and low unemployment. Also the reference to the US was about its large current account deficit not its sub-prime troubles

    “Its Rudds job now to slowly extricate us, repair the ship and get back on course”
    TB Queensland, on February 4th, 2009 at 11:28 am Said:

    Rudd was handed low unemployment, low inflation, pretty low interests rates, no Federal govt debt and some money in the kitty to spend if we need it in a time of trouble.

    A man who tells lies has no integrity

  89. Neil of Sydney, on February 4th, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    Neil, its a Global Financial Crisis!

    The “tanker” was in trouble 18 months (or more) before it hit the rocks – only a few of us were “banging on” about it and copping a hiding! It became more and more obvious as the election loomed!

    Some of us think the new captain might be better than the old captain that helped to ground the ship!

    As for lying – it was one of JWH’s own Senators who called him the Lying…mmm… “Little Rodent”…

    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/09/01/1093939000766.html Read all of it, now, and comprehend…BTW Honest John (as you’ll read) isn’t really… 😉

    …history is a valuable source of information – neglect it and it has a nasty habit of repeating itself…or just making you look like a twit! 😆

  90. “The “tanker” was in trouble 18 months (or more) before it hit the rocks – only a few of us were “banging on” about it and copping a hiding!
    TB Queensland, on February 4th, 2009 at 7:50 pm Said:”

    Well that may be so. You should be congratulated for your observations. However Glenn Stevens did not know. He did not start cutting interest rates until Sept 2008. Also your heroes that ALP did not know. In case you have forgotten the last budget which was not that long ago was an inflation fighting budget designed to put back into the bottle the inflation genie apparently released by Howard. No mention about the GFC in the last budget about 6 months ago. Your heroes were asleep.

    And Howard did not ground the ship. We were never grounded. Unemployment is low, our banks are profitable. We do not have the problems the US has. This is because of good govt by Howard. The people governing us now had no idea.

    Also I read your link- it said this

    “He does, however, deny ever calling the Prime Minister “a lying rodent”. He believes John Howard is a truthful rodent.”

    Whats your point???

  91. Neil

    You continue to call me a leftoid.

    I am not a leftoid and have an opinion separate from the ALP unlike ourself who appears to be a Coalition Public Relations officer without an opinion separate from the party ideology.

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: