By the Walrus Watercooler

20080429_water_cooler_3263567_18

And so the new year starts and I have to concentrate to write 2009. What’s been happening? What do you want to talk about?

joni

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99 Responses

  1. I am still trying to work out what the guy at the watercooler in the cartoon above is doing with his mouth?!?!

  2. And I am still trying to work out why his mouth is on his chin.

  3. Min

    Exactly my point!

  4. …and his nose being on his chin as well along with having mono-eyes

  5. Breaking news.

    Another Australian trooper has been killed in Afghanistan.

  6. Sad news on the trooper.

  7. Sad news indeed to start of the working year. Risking seeming to sound selfish, I thank the Big G* that son is now in the safe haven of Cairns.

  8. The guy holding the cup has a nose like…..

  9. Actually, I want to talk about the Pulp Mill.

    Looks like the Minister For (destroying) The Environment is likely to give it the stamp of approval today.

    If this comes to pass (as Tony Abbott might say), Garrett will have lost what little credibility he had left.

  10. Agree 100% reb.

    I had been giving Peter Garrett the benefit of the doubt and that he was being smart in implementing a whole bunch of onerous conditions onto environmentally sensitive projects, but if what I heard this morning is correct, Gunns has nowhere near met the requirements set down to be implemented by today, yet it appears Garrett is going to give the go ahead anyway.

    Of course we are going to get the spin about strict compliance and oversight, when nothing of the sort will occur.

    This maybe once instance where unions are influencing Rudd. Where are you Tom?

  11. Garrett is going to give the go ahead anyway.

    If this is the case i have one thing to say” sh8t for brains”

  12. OMD! Are we criticising a decision of the Rudd government again? I thought we never did that?!?!

  13. Adrian I likewise have been giving Garrett the benefit of the doubt. From my brief time as a local government pollie I also had to play within the rules, but then make the rules so onerous that it becomes a financially unviable proposition. Works a treat.

    I am waiting. I can’t imagine that Garrett wants Gunns to go ahead, nor that he doesn’t care. However if Garrett gives the go ahead to Gunns without them meeting the requirements, then Garrett will have lost all credibility…obviously.

  14. You’ve really go to hand it to the “financial experts”

    http://www.news.com.au/business/money/story/0,28323,23771312-5016110,00.html

  15. If Garrett were to deny the pulp mill he would be immediately attacked from all sides (except the green or green-sympathetic side) for turning down job creation.

    If he can put in place stringent (and inflexible) conditions on the mill and thus be seen to facilitate employment growth in a time of menacing economic downturn, he will be doing it right, in my view, or at least making a reasonable compromise between two otherwise irreconcilable positions.

    That’s if

  16. Which bank would finance the mill if it gets approval???

    On another note…went out to the Gap to get the guys started today, where the storms cut a swathe of destruction…still heaps of roofs tarped, but what really amazed me is the recuperation of the trees that were denuded.

    A magnificent flush of new growth and by late spring this year there will be no evidence of the damage.

  17. Maybe the Minister for Health could lift the ban on cigarette advertising too.

    That would provide a real boost to the advertising industry and create new jobs too.

    Funnily enough I think Bronwyn Bishop orgininally came up with this idea some time ago but it was knocked back for some reason.

  18. “Which bank would finance the mill if it gets approval???”

    Good question. However a Federal Government stamp of approval would cerainly increase their chances of securing funding.

  19. From Reb’s story at number 14:

    ANZ said the trigger for a rate hike in August would be a rise in second quarter inflation figures

    These financial “experts” give me the willies. If they know soooo much about the economy, why don’t they make themselves actually practically useful by giving solutions to the mess that the banking/finance industry has gotten the whole world into?

    No, instead they make wild claims, alarmist claims that can only help to damage confidence in the economy. And The Economy, the fickle amorphous monster that it is, is influenced by movements in confidence.

    Just recently on BBC World Service another economic “expert” was saying the danger to the Economy is deflation, stemming from reduced demand.

    So how does the ANZ’s “prediction” fit with that prediction? That’s right, it doesn’t. Two mutually-exclusive “predictions”. The whole thing strikes me as a crystal ball-gazing nonsense that they make up as they go along.

  20. “The whole thing strikes me as a crystal ball-gazing nonsense that they make up as they go along.”

    Exactly. It’s complete bollocks. The lot of it…

  21. Three words for this………………………

    “Oh My God”

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24873610-38198,00.html

  22. You can stop your whinging about Garrett – he has said no and asked for more studies:

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/environment/garrett-rejects-gunns-2b-mill/2009/01/05/1231003903869.html

    [shakes head] ye of little faith 😉

  23. Does that mean, D55, that we have to De-Garrett him?

  24. Walrus

    Don’t worry – he’ll have trouble getting Florida over the line if he can’t manipulate the vote 😉

    If you get a chance, you should go to the George Bush (snr) Library in Texas A&M University in College Station – it documents Snr’s life and presidency and includes a letter he wrote to his sons Jeb and George Jnr on the eve of invading Iraq over the Kuwait invasion. I was over there around 2 years after Jnr invaded Iraq the Snd time and I couldn’t help but think he had learnt nothing from his father’s letter which was writtten with a very heavy heart burdened by the decision. I had a lot more respect for Snr after that visit but sadly, that article you linked to has washed some of that respect away.

  25. Faith restored.

    Sometimes using the system gets further than just an outright blanket “no”.

  26. Dave55

    Best news I’ve heard in ages!

    Garrett has redeemed himself.

    🙂

  27. Joni at 23

    LOL – If that’s possible 😉

    I dopn’t wan’t to get back into the debate(?) that I was in with Tracie of NQ over this issue last time but I’d like to say that Garrett’s decision doesn’t surprise me (you can look up that thread for all the reasons).

    Also – thank deity he did make this decision or I probably would have ended up in another of those “debates”; posts simply saying “I told you so” as so much shorter to write!

  28. And how funny, John Gay wants the Government to pay for the additional “environmental studies”

    LOL. Like that’sgoing to happen..

    Quick let’s watch the share price, and John Gay’s reign over Tasmania go down the gurgler..

    http://finance.google.com/finance?q=ASX:GNS

  29. Adrian

    Sometimes using the system gets further than just an outright blanket “no”

    Yep – and is far more defensible in Court if challengeed as well 😉

  30. reb @ 28

    I had a good chuckle at that as well.

  31. Well, who would of thought?

    I like how Gunns wants the government to fund the effluent study…running out of funds???

    They might attempt to go down the legal avenue but because due process was followed by the government they have not a leg to stand on…touche!

  32. Scaper,

    Got to hand it to you. You predicted this outcome months ago and were “cautiously optimistic/confident” in the way Garett was handling this whole matter.

    You deserve a prize!

    Howabout a copy of the “Stars of Country” CD…???

  33. And we have a winner!

  34. Gunns share price has dropped from $1.25 ten minutes ago to $1.18.

    Shall we say about 90 cents by cob today?

  35. Mr Garrett said today his decision was informed by uncertainty about the outcomes of the yet to be completed hydrodynamic modelling for the mill and inconsistencies in the original approval conditions put in place by Mr Turnbull.

    “This now effectively brings the development of environmental limits and response strategies into the approvals process rather than leaving them to be developed after the mill receives federal environmental approval,” he said.

    “National environment legislation requires that I take a precautionary approach to environmental protection. I am not satisfied, with that in mind and informed by the advice of the Independent Expert Group (IEG), that I can grant final approval for this mill without fully understanding its potential environmental impacts.

    “That includes having a thorough understanding of the potential impacts of the mill’s effluent discharge on Commonwealth marine waters and absolute confidence in the proposed management and response strategies that are proposed to put in place to protect the environment.

    “After giving this matter thorough consideration and taking expert scientific and legal advice on the terms of the conditional approval granted for the mill by Mr Turnbull, I have therefore decided not to approve modules L, M and N of the draft Environmental Impact Management Plan (EIMP) submitted by Gunns until after all the facts are on the table.”

    IT’S F**KED!! (the mill that is).

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24874038-601,00.html

  36. I like it 🙂 From the SMH..Mr Garrett approved all of the environment assessment modules associated with the mill, except those dealing with the effluent leaking into Bass Strait, and this may hold up the project for about two years until more research can be done.

    The government fund something that has effectively been held up for 2 years (optimistically).

  37. Reb, send the prize to Garrett as he is the person who made it happen…mostly.

    I want to see Bob Brown eat his words as he was pretty harsh on Garrett over all this.

  38. And how about this for good news. If the Australian cricket team does not lose this test match they will have been undefeated in 2009 – and that is a positive thing IMHO.

  39. Scaper, Min et al,

    The funny, nay, actually hilarious thing about this entire saga is that if Gunns had stuck with the original RPDC process it would have probably been approved by now!

    Instead they walked away from the process because they knew that it wouldn’t measure up to the environmental standards of “world’s best pratice.”

    Shares are now down by 11 cents to $1.14

  40. Gunns shares now down to $1.09…

  41. Reb

    If I didn’t know better, I’d say you were taking some kind of perverse pleasure in riding those shares down. 😉

  42. There’s nothing perverse about it, ToSY.

    I’m enjoying every moment of it!

    Can’t wait to hear John Gay’s response where he’ll no doubt trot out the usual lies about how this is all good news for the company and that the pulp mill is still going ahead…

    🙂

  43. And for once reb and I are criticising a Gay! hehe

  44. “Gunns Shares Tank as Govt declines Pulp Mill”

    http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,24874627-31037,00.html

    Lol….LOL……LOL…!!!!!!!!!!

    *maniacal laughter*

  45. OK, I think I get it.

    The environment has been saved, but now those who proposed such an evil plan must be punished. And what better way to make them suffer than financially.

    Is that about it?

  46. Faith restored..in fact it almost warrants breaking out that left over bottle of Mateus from Christmas. Oh b**ger it, I’m off to lop the top off.

    Reb, I do wonder how many $$$s these Gunns people will walk away with, win or lose. As you say, they walked away from the original process. Why??

  47. Tony

    It is not us that are making them suffer, but the market. You know – the semi-free market that must be propped up by taxpayers when the free-market makes mistakes.

    😛

  48. Tony,

    There’s nothing wrong with a development proposal being put forward for assessment. It is the way that Gunns have gone about trying to railroad the approval through collusion with the former state Premier, Paul Lennon, and by walking away from the original RPDC process that was set up to assess the mill.

    John Gay attempts to throw his weght around by threatening to move the mill Victoria, or threatening to pull the project altogether if it was approved by HIS deadlines.

    He thinks he owns Tasmania and can do whatever he likes. Money and greed are the only things he understands, so yes watching their share price plummet is immensely satisfying.

  49. “they walked away from the original process. Why??”

    Simple. Gunns have always maintained that their mill would be worlds best practice.

    Worlds best pratice is defined as a closed-loop (ie zero effluent discharge) and totally chlorine free pulp mill.

    Gunns mill meets neither of these standards, so was never going to approved by the RPDC under its current specifications.

    Gunns then walked away from the RPDC and within 24 hours had coiincidentally struck a deal with then premier Paul Lennon to railroad it through Parliament. Which they successfully achieved in Tasmania

    Oh, and it was originally going to cost $1.2 billion, now it’s estimated at costing twice that.

    The ANZ (Gunns main bank) has already refused to fund the project, so good luck to them trying to find financiars in today’s economic climate.

    🙂

  50. Thank you reb. I came a little late into this and so your explanation is very much appreciated. Interesting take via The Melbourne Age, that Garrett ‘agonised over’ the decision. I think not. I think that Garrett knew where he was heading but had to follow due process in order to get there.

  51. “I think that Garrett knew where he was heading but had to follow due process in order to get there.”

    That’s been scaper’s take on it also Min.

  52. Tony, it is typical of the drama queens in the stock market to lift their collective skirts and gyrate in panic…gee, an outbreak of violence in the ME and they react by a spike in that commodity.

    This slide was expected and if this corporation is worth its salt it will recover in the market…unless it was artificially overvalued on speculation!

    This whole mill thing had a lifespan of twenty five years then the prime resource would have been exhausted…sustainable industry?

    Sure, you can establish plantations but that is not the answer…I tell you what, next time you get out there go for a walk in one of these plantations.

    Row upon row of the same species and no sign of wildlife…a wasteland actually…especially in pine plantations!

    Wiping out old growth forests and creating tree farms is not the future.

    I have a hunch…

  53. Reb, I admit to feeling a bit guilty for not standing up and being counted re Garrett. Fell victim to all the negative PR happening since prior to the last election, and that’s my only excuse apart from being far too whimpy (me that is). Scaper on the other hand had/has faith. The Award..gold Star complete with Mr Men stamp goes to scaper.

  54. “Row upon row of the same species and no sign of wildlife…a wasteland actually…especially in pine plantations!”

    Too bloody right!

    The other half and I went to visit Gunns very own “tourist attraction” the Tahune Airwalk in southern Tasmania a couple of years ago.

    The one thing that struck me, was the complete silence. Niot a bird in sight or the sound of any native wildlife, just complete bloody sillence, apart from the tourists’ clicking cameras…

  55. Scaper, I can verify this. Pine plantations at Beech Forest (Otway ranges) circa 1959. Not a sound, not a bird, not a lizard.

    I was pleased in my time to have pinus radiata declared a noxious weed, Dandenong Ranges foothills.

    One of the problems is that they emit poisonous residues which means that there is no under-story. Suits timber getters to a T, but sad about the now non-existent wildlife.

  56. Gunns idea of conservation.

    Aerial drop many kilos of poison bait to wipe out the entire wildlife in a large swath of forest and also poison the predators who eat that wildlife, like eagles. Then mass burn the carcasses on pyres as the forest is clear felled, but keep one or two bodies of the rare species to have them stuffed and thus conserved.

  57. >blockquote>Niot a bird in sight or the sound of any native wildlife, just complete bloody sillence

    They might have spotted you and bolted. =;^)

  58. Not so Tony…all the wild life usually make a bolt to reb’s front door. Soo what, he can’t spell/type, but he’s very very cute.

  59. I think actually min, that reb has now left his “wild life” behind.

    😛

  60. Joni, behind where??

  61. scaper

    You’re dead right about the plantations. A lot of the new ones here in NSW are mixed species – still in rows of species to make harvesting easier but it provides greater biodiversity than the monocultures.

    I’ts a bit different with some of the Alpine Ash forests in Sth NSW, Vic and Tas though which are pretty much upper storey monocultures anyway – the secret there is to maitain the understorey biodiversity. I haven’t seen the Gunns’ plantations in Tas so I can’t comment on them but it is bloody expensive to keep removing understorry and for little commercial gain in the long run so I have no idea why they’d do it – esp as it increases the risk of disease And pest outbreaks.

  62. This is exactly what I was saying. The ‘beauty’ of pinus radiata is that they kill off all under story with no human intervention whatsoever. And they make such lovely Xmas trees…groan…

    I am yet to see a plantation management plan with a commitment to maintenance/restoration of the mid-storey and the under storey. Well ok, I’ve seen a management plan, but I am yet to see it happen..this is 20 years later.

    Yes, I’ve heard that one before, anything other than the $$$ trees are filled with diseases etc etc etc. Yawnnn. And probably if you have native vegetation then you run the risk of rats running into your house and eating your children while they are sleeping. I kid you not, the aforementioned was plopped on my desk.

  63. Radiata is an absolute nightmare. It’s almost impossible to get any understorey under them (other than magic mushrooms 😉 ) I have seen possums feeding on the young male cones though weher they abut against native forests, not much going on 20m into the forest though.

    Up behind weher you are in the Taloom/ Benablo area there is some hoop pine and bunya pine plantations which are doing OK (or at least they were 10 years ago when I was up there. They were still monocultures though and I’m not sure what replanting success was like after harvesting. On our place on the mid-nth coast we have had good success with mixted plantations of hoop pine, Sydney Blue Gum and Sally Wattle (Black Wood) – they need thining beacuse of the higher density planting but we let the undergrowth do as it pleases. Plenty of wildlife in the plantation as evidenced by possum tracks up the trees.

  64. hmmm

    though weher they = “though only where they”

    I seem to generally be having problems with “where” today – too much reliance on Google Chrome underlining my typos which I haven’t got set up on firefox here at work.

  65. The hunch…

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24874879-12377,00.html

    Now it leads back to comment 16…it’s not over, folks…would you invest in a project that as yet has got the green light?

    Do any of you guys remember when the bank heads were called to Canberra last year…back scratching???

  66. And the guns from Gunns are going to be doing what between now and 2011? Running around like chooks doing environmental studies. Nope, it isn’t going to happen.

  67. Interesting piece at Pollytics on a Howard vs Rudd Deathmatch.

    It basically compares the polls on Howard in his first 12 months against Rudd in his first 12 months, and Rudd slam dunks Howard.

    It illustrates something I have said for a long time. Howard was not as popular amongst the majority of Australian voters as the right try to make out, and if not for circumstances falling into his lap, like Tampa, Sept 11 2001 attacks on the US, world resource boom and loading people up with debt and then scaring them on interest rates, any half decent Labor opposition would have ousted him well before 2007.

    Another piece of information may well eventually come out about Howard’s popularity as well, and that is just how unpopular he was in his own party. It will surprise a lot of people just how unpopular he has always been except for a small cadre of blind love struck followers like Downer.

  68. Min, I like the bluster from Gay in my last link…he’s trying to abate the stock slide with this bluff.

    One would be remiss to proceed with construction funded by a credit card and expect to be compensated down the track because the conditions of approval were not met.

  69. Interesting piece Adrian which also begs the question Why is Rudd so popular? After all he is only this wordy nerdy bloke.

    But re Howard, nice to have it in stats.

  70. Scaper @68

    “he’s trying to abate the stock slide with this bluff.”

    Spot on again scaper.

    John Gay’s arse is on the line. The Pulp Mill doesn’t have a hope in hell of going ahead. If the new environment tests are going to take two years, and will no doubt necessitate new and stringent conditions, stand by and watch all the Gunns shareholders ditch their shares and run in droves.

    His corrupt little deal with former Premier Paul Lennon has unravelled so now poor old John Gay is the only one left to continue the charade that it’s still “going ahead”.

    Even his bed partner Paul Lennon, conceded it was unlikely to proceed late last year.

  71. Actually, maybe John Gay could learn a thing or two from our friend Ben Zongo, by sending out a broadcast email…

    Dear shareholder,

    I am a very important businessman in Australia. I am about to commence on a very important project of national significance.

    It’s only going to cost $2 billion. Unfortunately the former Premier has vanished off the face of the earth, so I need someone else to front up with the dosh.

    I thought I could count on you for the cash. In return you’ll receive a huge shareholding – witness how our shares are soaring – plus as much pulp as you want as part of the deal.

    It’s tops mate honest. Oh and if you didn’t know “pulp” is just mushed up shite made out of thousand year old forests.

    Some of these greenie ***ts down here want to turn these old forests into a “tourist attraction”. Pfft. What would they know. Let’s just clear-fell the lot and turn it into recycled toilet paper.

    You know the type, the sort that feels more like sandpaper than soft tissue. Now that’s what I call “downstream processing”

    Now if you could kindly send me your bank account details everything will be sweet.

    Yours

    John Gay (but I’m not a fag, OKAY?).

  72. Min:

    “he can’t spell/type, but he’s very very cute”

    Why thank you Min. 🙂

    Everyone take note please, as Oscar Wilde once said

    “Style is more important than substance”

    🙂

  73. Regarding the Pulp Mill, it appears to be very good news. It’s understandable that many people are happy with Peter Garrett on this issue. I’m pleased with Garrett on this as well. I’d like to add that one good course of action does not make a good minister. I have not forgotten all his previous bumbling and incompetence. He is still a politician just like the rest of them.

  74. Gee, Alistair…so what does make a good minister…the people and advice that is offered?

    There are the line dancing politicians and then there is the people of conviction…many in the past have put the cart before whatever and have been run down by the machine…others have gently eased themselves into a position of being of positive influence in the loin clothed barbaric savage world of the sphere.

    I have had direct dealings with the guy and I’m not star struck…a work in progress.

  75. “so what does make a good minister”

    That’s obviously very subjective. The point I was attempting to make is that this one course of action does not erase everything else that he has done (and not done). I believe Garrett has compromised hmself significantly since becoming an MP. However, it’s good to see that he’s taking positive action in this case.

  76. Garrett’s non-decision (and does anyone believe that HE actually made it) means the issue is still alive and well. Gay seems happier than the Wilderness Society.

    It seems to me that the Government’s spin worked. Gunns will build (apparently) and because the investment and the job dependency will be so big, denial in the longer term will be politically impossible.

    As for scaper, you seem intent on creating a record on mixed metaphors nad intended? humour. But please continue. I just loved

    ” not beholding to the sycophany of the establishment.”

    And:

    “We have to move from the coast in four directions to achieve this.”

    Brilliant! Comedy gold!

  77. Nature 5 – I’m a little out of the loop on news at the moment (taking break with a no 4x4s, no dusty roads and no towns of drunk misfits, no big rocks – ie a holiday).

    I do think that both your observations are very accurate. Mixed metaphors are always a delight. Tortuous syntax doubly so.

    The pulp and paper industry is regarded as the vital industry of northern Tasmania, as is the forestry that goes with it. All the towns spread across the north will take on the social orientation of Victorias Latrobe Valley without some form of industry.

    I’m not a supporter of Gunns. I like the drive through teahouses and antique shops, but I doubt whether the locals see antique and bric a brac shops as capable to supporting the population.

    Yes, unions affiliated with the ALP are likely to support this development and that’s when it will be endorsed.

  78. 77. Tom of Melbourne :

    “I’m a little out of the loop on news at the moment (taking break with a no 4×4s, no dusty roads and no towns of drunk misfits, no big rocks

    Tis a pity Tom. So many missed opportunities. Lol To the North, there’s not much dust – the monsoon has turned it to mud – and I suspect there’s towns with no beer which will mean there are no ‘drunk’ misfits. I think we can agree on that point.

    As for:

    “Mixed metaphors are always a delight. Tortuous syntax doubly so.”

    Again, I agree. But I expect an unsympathetic reaction. Why try so hard? Lol.

    As for:

    “Yes, unions affiliated with the ALP are likely to support this development and that’s when it will be endorsed.”

    Yes, the unions will agree with the endorsement which will inevitably come (better to have it here in Australia with some controls, rather than in some parts of Asia with no controls?) but I suggest real motive force will not be the unions but the ‘broader needs of the economy’.

    More likely. A mixture of same.

  79. After reading more on this matter, I believe I have jumped the gunn on this pulp mill issue. Peter Garrett has effectively given the construction of the mill the go-ahead. Gunns does need to get financial backing but that is surely not impossible. Can anybody seriously imagine a situation where the mill is built but the government denies its ability to operate on environmental grounds – thousands of potential jobs not created at a time of higher unemployment? I can’t imagine such a scenario. I believe that if the mill gets built, it will become operational.

  80. Vindication has turned to abject disappointment as I find out last night that Garrett has all but given the go ahead for Gunns to begin construction.

    If you think the mill will be stopped if it doesn’t meet the environmental standards, not on your nellie. The government approval specifically states that the mill will not be shut down for environmental breaches but heavy fines of up to one million dollars and criminal prosecution will ensue.

    This is an approval for the mill to go ahead and to pollute.

    I’m going to get a letter of profound disappointment together today and post it of to Garrett asap. Not much but all I can think to do.

  81. 77. Tom of Melbourne

    So the whole scale destruction of an ecosystem is OK if it brings jobs to few and destroys all the other industries that rely on that resource, including fishing.

    With that attitude we might as well destroy the entire planet so at least there’s employment and revenue whilst it lasts… wait on.

  82. OK I’ve heard it all now.

    Just caught a headline on ABC Breakfast which stated that George W Bush has bestowed on John W Howard the highest civilian honour possible because of his work for world peace.

    After the vomiting stopped I’m still gagging and walking around shaking my head in utter disbelief.

  83. No Adrian, I don’t enjoy sharing the road with hundreds of logging trucks while I drive between antique shops, teahouses and wineries.

    But those industries (and fishing) don’t have much of the type of union coverage that unions like. And we all know that unions are in charge these days.

  84. reb

    I now know how you feel going through with withdrawal.

    Last night when I got home the boyf informed me that we did not have any internet – and when I checked we did not have the landline phone either. So no internet last night for us.

    Hopefully it will get reconnected today…. grrrrr

  85. Adrian

    So the whole scale destruction of an ecosystem is OK if it brings jobs to few and destroys all the other industries that rely on that resource, including fishing.

    With that attitude we might as well destroy the entire planet so at least there’s employment and revenue whilst it lasts… wait on.

    If this project ever goes ahead it will be because Mr Garrett believes “wholesale destruction” won’t happen. Anyone would think you were opposed to this just because it is being proposed by a large corporation.

  86. Damn. Did it again.

  87. ToSY

    Don’t worry – we all do it…. I will tidy it up for you.

    Is that better?

  88. No it won’t ToSY, Garrett has proven ever since he became a member of the Labor party and took the environment portfolio the last thing on his mind is the environment.

    Not anyone would think, you would think.

  89. And the next para too please. (Can’t we get the auto-coding thingy?)

  90. Just noticed that Tony – and fixed it now. Unfortunately at the moment we are restricted by wordpress… I am looking into getting our own software to run the blogocrats, which may give us all some better freedom to do what we want.

  91. Peter Garrett is about to appear on ABC Breakfast (ABC2) to justify his approval of the Gunns mill. The background info I’m getting is that he legally had to go this route.

  92. Adrian

    You are correct, all this screaming at Peter Garrett is very poor in my opinion. Peter has apparently been rolled by the PM and told to permit it to go ahead. However apparently the conditions Peter will place on the mill make take at least 2 years to be adhered to.

    Peter was lefally obliged to go along this path. It is not as simple as saying something cannot proceed, we all know that, even thjough it would be nice if things worked that way. Law Suits are a fact of life now.

  93. OK I just heard the interview with Peter Garrett and the route he has taken makes a lot more sense.

    If Peter is to be believed, and there is no reason not to believe him as this is easily checked, then the process of Requirement Modules was setup by Malcolm Turnbull and legally must be followed through. The modules approved so far has meant that there has been nothing but lack of finance stopping Gunns from having started building the mill from February 2008, so Garrett hasn’t approved construction, the module process implemented by Turnbull has.

    Garrett within legal grounds has asked Gunns to undertake stricter environmental impact studies on the remaining three modules, which Garrett has not approved. It is up to Gunns to make the decision to go ahead without the approval for the final three modules, and as Garrett said in the interview if Gunns does do that then they must be absolutely certain they can meet the strict environmental conditions imposed on them.

  94. Shane I don’t know where you got this “rolled by the PM bit”.

    Have you evidence this is what took place and does this mean that Rudd is following the legal process because Garrett wasn’t?

    Yet you then go onto say that Garrett was legally obliged to follow the legal process, so does this mean Rudd wasn’t?

  95. Just put up a thread on Gunns… can we bring all the discussion over to there please?

  96. Adrian

    I read the comment yesterday regarding Peter being rolled by the PM, cannot give you the location as I do not remember whether it was in the newspapers or online.

  97. Fair enough Shane.

  98. Yoo hoo..received a notice that the Gunns thread is closed for comment.

  99. 10 O’clock and it’s already 33C here in the Hunter – must be this global cooling effect I keep hering about 😉

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