Turnbull

turnbull

What is he the member for?

Is he the Member for WhatItsWorth? The member for WhatHe’sWorth?

Or maybe it is time he was the member who WentAway.

And then today he comes out with this statement:

This is why we need Mr Rudd to immediately and categorically reverse this decision to accept inmates of Guantanamo Bay for resettlement in Australia.

How can Rudd possibly reverse a decision that has not been made? I mean really – can Malcolm have a real position for once?

What is he on about?

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79 Responses

  1. Every dog has his day.

    When I think of Mal he gives me the Schultz.

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hlmz7omnM-E

    Nelson must be pissing himself laughing!

  2. You hit on it scaper, Turnbul in no way wanted the leadership this early and knew it would be poison. Nelson calling him out was genius and I have to admit I really underestimated Brendan, which is exactly what Brendan once said, “Most people make the mistake of underestimating me.” At the time I thought it was false bravado, but now I know what he meant.

    Turnbull must have thought his Christmases had all come at once with the GFC hitting, but as opposition leader he handled the attacks on the government poorly, with Rudd dead batting his way through, which is going down well with the pundits and rendering Malcolm more or less inconsequential, which is why he has bought the opposition polling levels back to Nelsons.

  3. Adrian, I never underestimated the guy…even copped flak from people here because of my comments concerning himself.

    It is not hard to join the dots considering what I’m attempting to achieve.

    I’ll leave it at that…

  4. Sounds like he rushed in. Rushed in like a Bull at a gate.

    Given his background as a Merchant Banker, will he be like a Bull in a China Shop on the Economy?

  5. Adrian of Nowra:

    “Turnbul in no way wanted the leadership this early and knew it would be poison”

    Really? Then why did he contest when Nelson put the leadership on the line?

    Are you suggesting that he lacks judgement?

    Moreover, why did he contest the position originally when Howard was outed? Did he know that it was poison then?

    Adrian, it seems to me that your analysis lacks credibility or can only be justified if you believe that Turnbull is completely dumb or lacks political judgement big time,

    As for:

    “Nelson must be pissing himself laughing!”

    I suspect that Nelson doesn’t laugh too much these days. How could a failure to win a leadership ballot, bought on by the incumbent, be a source of merriment? The again we are discussing Nelson so anything is possible.

    As for:

    “Adrian, I never underestimated the guy”

    I can believe that.

    And:

    “It is not hard to join the dots considering what I’m attempting to achieve.”

    Tis for me!

    “He knew it to be poison’,

    Again, if that was the case, why did he contest?

    IMHo you are attributing political insights to both Nelson and Turnbull

  6. Being Opposition leader is good, at any time, because you want to be there, if and when, the Government stumbles. Your big break could come at any moment, but only if you’re there as leader. Yes, it’s a poisoned chalice, but just one decent stumble from the Government is your anti-dote. The only real question then for the ambitious, is whether they have the factional strength to keep their hands on the cup, and the personal fortitude to keep chugging down the poison in the meantime without it killing all electoral hopes. ‘Irrelevant’ Malcolm isn’t much different to ‘Deadbatting Through’ Kevin, imho, as opposed to the hystrionic ‘I am very angry, and now I very sad, and now I am ‘ Brendan.

  7. I hate html codes…”and now I am (insert another mock emotion)’ Brendan.”

  8. We all know he was Packer’s lawyer years ago, and a successful – we are told – merchant banker, but he is starting to rack up the failures as well. He lost the Republic referendum, and will lose the opposition leadership. (If he doesn’t, he will lose the next election on current form.)

  9. This seems a fair question, just the same:

    MALCOLM Turnbull has called on Kevin Rudd to spell out whether Guantanamo Bay detainees will be resettled into the Australian community like migrants in a deal with the incoming Obama administration.

    (From joni’s link.)

  10. From: http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/02/americas/gitmo.php Quote: SYDNEY: Australia said Friday that it was unlikely to agree to U.S. requests to accept detainees from the prison at Guantánamo Bay as Washington moves to close the notorious camp.

    Big note re above, it states FRIDAY. Yet on Saturday Turnbull states (quote is from the link to the Oz) MALCOLM Turnbull has called on Kevin Rudd to spell out whether Guantanamo Bay detainees will be resettled into the Australian community like migrants in a deal with the incoming Obama administration.

    The above is yet another example of Turnbull of being 20 paces behind. Friday Australia says ‘highly unlikely’ then the following day Turnbull calls on the government to spell out whether or not…

    Good grief Mal, try reading the newspapers you might find some hints or clues there. Perhaps Mal thought that he could get away with pretending to lead the debate.

  11. 9. Tony of South Yarra

    Mr Turnbull said it was “troubling” that a decision to accept the detainees appeared to have been made without telling the public.

    “This is why we need Mr Rudd to immediately and categorically reverse this decision to accept inmates of Guantanamo Bay for resettlement in Australia,” Mr Turnbull said.

    But he didn’t pose a question; he issued an edict. Why on Earth would the elected Government have to hold a referendum on an administrative immigration matter well within Government’s brief on Malcolm’s say so?

    Would Malcolm be trying to play the ‘fear’ or ‘xenophobia’ cards by any chance?

  12. Would Malcolm be trying to play the ‘fear’ or ‘xenophobia’ cards by any chance?

    Probably, but I for one don’t want Guantanamo inmates – other than Cuban refugees – settling in the community. I just don’t.

  13. T of SY

    The point is that Malcolm said that he wanted the government to reverse the decision to take the inmates – when no such decision had ever been made.

    How can that be possible?

  14. And Min @ 10

    When “highly unlikely” becomes definitely not, I’ll be happy.

  15. Joni

    see 14.

  16. How about this one for you Tony. http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-01-03-voa9.cfm The Australian government has formally rejected the United States’ request to resettle former detainees from the Guantanamo Bay detention center.

  17. Good. I’m happy.

    (Back in your box, Malcolm.)

  18. So far the Libs have produced to dud Malcolms.

  19. Legion at number 11:

    Would Malcolm be trying to play the ‘fear’ or ‘xenophobia’ cards by any chance?

    A Liberal / a Liberal leader? NEVER!!

  20. IDF Spokesperson blog.

    (In the interest of balance, I would like to have linked to the equivalent Hamas site, but couldn’t find one. Perhaps they’ve been a little preoccupied with other matters.)

  21. Hmmm.

    http://idfspokesperson.com/

  22. Oops again. Wrong thread.

  23. Nature 5 @5

    “Really? Then why did he contest when Nelson put the leadership on the line?”

    I suspect his ego got involved.

  24. I suspect that this is one of the reasons why Turnbull is a disappointment as Leader of the Opposition. One of his ‘methods’ seems to be trying to gain headlines from furphies such as recent..Turnbull is trying to glean details (eg will the detainees be settled into the community as per migrants) when the Government had rejected Bush’s overtures. Cart before horse.

    And why in the article from The Australian does Turnbull mention Obama? As far as I can ascertain this is Bush’s idea. I can’t find a scrap about where Obama mentions resettlement of detainees, only that he will close Guantanamo. I will stand corrected if anyone can find a statement from Obama about resettlement in Australia or other countries. If not, then why does Turnbull state Obama rather than Bush? Trying to make it sound like a leftie plot?

  25. The Liberals don’t like Obama. Howard made that clear, and it would be a brave or suicidal Liberal who goes against the decree of their King.

    They are the political / ideological soulmates of the Republicans, who presided over one of the worst economic disasters to ever hit the world.

    Turnbull is of the ilk – banking and finance “industry” types – that helped to precipitate the disaster.

  26. I blame Bush and Howard.

  27. A little off topic, but one also has to wonder why Bush wants to offload the detainees prior to Obama taking over. Something to hide?

  28. I agree Caney. But unless anyone can find a statement re Obama and resettling detainees in Australia then either Turnbull misunderstands the situation or is telling porkies (trying to link Obama to the request from the US) for political gain.

  29. Min, it wouldn’t be the first time Mal Spin-bull has made a blunder on international matters.

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/gaffe-makes-turnbull-a-risk-says-rudd/2008/12/05/1228257317713.html

    Gaffe makes Turnbull a risk, says Rudd

    Peter Hartcher Political Editor, Sydney Morning Herald, 6 December 2008

    Kevin Rudd is portraying Malcolm Turnbull as a liability to Australia’s national security, claiming he doesn’t know that Australia’s alliance with the US is different to its friendship with China.

    In Federal Parliament on Thursday, the Opposition Leader spoke of “our major allies” and listed eight nations including the US and China. Mr Rudd said yesterday that China was a friend but not an ally, a term with specific treaty implications.

    “It’s extraordinary that Mr Turnbull equates US and China as allies of Australia,” he told the Herald. “China is a long-term friend of Australia; the US, by contrast, has been, for more than half a century, an ally of Australia. That’s a term which has a specific definition as a military alliance containing reciprocal defence obligations.

    Back in yer box, Malcontent.

  30. 5. Nature 5 |

    Really? Then why did he contest when Nelson put the leadership on the line?

    You didn’t read the right ups and stories of the time N5?

    Turnbull was wedged. If he didn’t stand up against Nelson at that time then someone of the right faction would have stood, maybe even Costello who was making “maybe” noises in the background. That would have been the end of Turnbull’s chances until after the next election when the Coalition lose it.

    Basically Turnbull had no choice but to show his mettle or be sidelined.

    ———————
    I don’t wholly subscribe to having to be there in case a government fails either. Many oppositions leaders have been there at the time of government failure but not at election time, and the opposition still won.

    Ideally a first term opposition leader needs to be in place and establishing himself 18 – 12 months before an election and at a time the government isn’t doing well. After an election defeat for a party, their first or second leader in opposition are rarely around for the next election. It is a special leader that can hold a party in disarray, that is blaming all and sundry for their predicament, and still effectively hold a resurgent new government to account. A leader like that deserves to be PM, but Malcolm aint that leader.

  31. Reb, Nelson called the spill because his position became untenable through the backstabbing by the Turnbull faction.

    What amuses me is the Nelson camp can just sit back and watch Turnbull self destruct…he offered Nelson a front bench position but Nelson, like Barnaby can not be bought.

    That is a concept that Turnbull can not grasp.

  32. Post 32, the first link doesn’t work, sorry, but the second link (the unparsed one) does. They are both to the same story anyway.

  33. This is an interesting story on how Spinbull gutted Half-Nelson

    Trail of blood leads to Turnbull

  34. 23. reb

    “I suspect his ego got involved.”

    Of course! I admit I have more time for Turnbull that I did for Nelson who was a complete embarrassment. (Imagine a new Leader of the Liberal Party hiring Peter Hendy, one of the leading lights of WCs, So, so dumb. And as for his speeches in Parliament, they will be used for generations to show potential politicians ‘how not to behave’.)

    As for the Gitmo ‘prisoners’, I think Rudd/Gillard acted too quickly in refusing. We have two ex-Gitmo prisoners here in Australia and to the best of my knowledge, our security is none the less. We could have earned some very cheap brownie points by helping Obama out. It would have cost us virtually nothing – maybe some political skin.

    Cheap nit-picking shots seem like acts of desperation. At the moment, Rudd is all teflon – nothing sticks. Better to cuddle up occasionally at least and bathe in some reflected glory. Attack only when he stumbles.

  35. 30. Adrian of Nowra

    “You didn’t read the right ups and stories of the time N5?”

    Actually I did read the write-ups, but I could guess where this was all heading. Turnbull should have shown more restraint, looked at a bit of history and put his cue in the rack. If he knew it was poison, as you claim, then he should have backed his judgement. But I suspect that he believed that he could turn it all around because of his brilliance. Lol

    I think we agree that Turnbull lacks political judgement and his future is not looking too bright.

    “maybe even Costello who was making “maybe” noises in the background.”

    I can envisage a situation where Costello makes the ‘comeback’ after all the pretenders fall in a heap. At that point, he will lead a truly united Liberal Party (totally desperate to save more seats). It seems to me Costello has very few choices. Clearly the world of business has rejected him and that’s unlikely to change in the foreseeable future.

    He has devoted the lion’s share of his adult life in a quest to be the PM. I can see him going for broke but still under the radar in the next election. He still has time on his side and little other interests.

  36. Nature5. See previous, this was a request from George Bush (reiterating a previous request) and not from incoming President Obama. To date, Obama has not stated anything other than he is going to close Guantanamo.

    Obama has not stated that he wants detainees foisted off onto other countries. This is George Bush’s idea. As per previous I will stand corrected if anyone can find a statement from Obama saying that he wants to relocate detainees to other countries.

    From: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/22/AR2008122201749.html?hpid=topnews European officials put out tentative feelers to Barack Obama’s team to see whether it was willing to discuss the issue, but the incoming administration has rejected holding even informal talks until after the Jan. 20 inauguration, according to European and U.S. officials aware of the outreach.

    Therefore there are no brownie points to be gained as the Obama administration will not discuss the issue until after January 20th.

  37. That Turdball would make gaffs like this epotimises their lack of credibilty in opposition, and in fact shows that they have not changed since they were booted out of Government. This is the type of crap that we would expect from the Howard hymnsheet. Someone should remin Turdball that it was his mob who exchanged bodily fluidswith the autoors of the torture camp, and the ALP who actually opposed it. Why should we take these people. Although most of those detained from day 1 have neen realeased (they were the worst of the worst you know), and have been resettled, why shoul \d any other country mop us tohe mess made by the idiot who thinks he is charge of democracy, the free worls, the worlds econnomy and the list goes on. The sheer arrogance of the Empire even asking other countries to mop up their mess. That Obama has asked, doesn’t look like we are going to get much change in the arrogance towards their so called friendle countries does it.

  38. Min

    Obama has made it clear that there can only be a maximum of one President at a time (some say even having one would be a good start.Lol) This does not mean that those who work for him won’t be making discreet off the record enquiries.

    You would be aware no doubt that current U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates will continue in that position. Gates is in consultation with Obama and I am completely confident that he wouldn’t blink unless he has Obama’s agreement. Gates is undertaking the resettlement task.

    “Amnesty International heartily welcomes today’s news that Secretary Gates is moving forward to develop a plan to close the detention center at Guantanamo Bay which is in line with President-elect Barack Obama’s stated priority to shut down the notorious prison.”

    From the same release:

    “All others must be returned or resettled in countries, including the United States, where they will not face torture or other ill-treatment.”

    Resettlement in other countries seems part of Obama’s plan. That’s why Gates is pursuing same.

    http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=ENGUSA20081218004

    There are all sorts of ‘legal complications’ for ANY administration if resettlement is in the US alone.

    ” Critics and members of the Bush administration have pointed to the new legal rights possibly awarded to the prisoners, should they be held on U.S. soil, as the largest challenge and deterrent to closing the facility.”

    The easiest solution for Obama would be to bury it ASAP.
    As I understand it, there has been two requests made, separated by about a month. I believe the second approach would have the explicit blessing of Obama.

  39. I said above that the requests were separated by about a month, I was wrong. The requests were more than 6 months apart.

    I note also that George Brandis has bought into the debate.

    “Opposition legal affairs spokesman George Brandis said the request should never have been considered.”

    No he wasn’t talikng about going to war in Iraq. We should not have considered a request from our ‘great and powerful ally’. I wonder what Howard would think about that? Lol.

    But George has advice on most things. he says:

    “I think the best counsel for former prime ministers is to maintain a dignified silence … ”

    http://livenews.com.au/articles/2009/01/03/Australia_warned_against_Gitmo_inmates

  40. Re: Obama has made it clear that there can only be a maximum of one President at a time (some say even having one would be a good start.Lol) This does not mean that those who work for him won’t be making discreet off the record enquiries.

    I of course agree Nature5 and sooo….back on topic, why does Turnbull state (via the Oz article/press release from Turnbull) “…..will be resettled into the Australian community like migrants in a deal with the incoming Obama administration”.

    On what basis does Turnbull make this assumption about the incoming Obama administration? Can Turnbull quote his sources?

  41. Turnbull: What is he the member for?

    Like any other “Liberal”, he’s the member for rich people.

    If you are not rich you cannot afford to vote for the Liberal Party.

  42. 36. N5

    You are right of course, also on Turnbull’s lack of judgement, which has become a regular feature of both his time in government (rain from cloudless skies amongst other things) and now regularly in office.

    This is a real worry for a potential PM, or would be if he had a chance of being elected as PM.

  43. “This is a real worry for a potential PM”

    Indeed it is. As is the court case “estimated to start being heard in the NSW Supreme Court in early 2010”

    http://news.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/turnbull-wins-but-hih-court-case-beckons-20080917-4i14.html

    “he remains an individually-named defendant in a $450 million corporate legal action over his role as Goldman Sachs Australia managing director in 1988,”

    Will it prompt an election? Lol

  44. Nature 5,

    I believe that has been settled out of court or something.

  45. Caney, you may be correct but I can’t find a link to that. Certainly, ASIC charges against Geoffrey Cohen and Daniel Wilkie are finished with but that was in the realm of criminal action.

    What my link shows is ‘civil action’ – damages and the like.

  46. Honestly people I think your over analyzing things and rushing to judgments as well regarding Truffles.

    At this stage all he can do is try and ramp up any story that comes his way and this being the silly season it’s even more important that he keeps his name in the papers. Further more Rudd adopts a very clever way with the media in which contrary to popular belief, the Gov rarely give fodder to the press unless it’s something of import. This leaves a vacuum which the media scramble to fill with comment from “the others” so you get all this rubbish press and half questions etc as stories.

    Don’t sweat it, Rudd is very clever guy and guess what, so is Malcolm and he isn’t doing anything out of the ordinary. He can’t get any traction right now unless Rudd slips big time(and he will, at some stage) so MT is left with trying to beat up anything that come his way in the hope that it will become something. It hasn’t worked yet and so what, he doesn’t care, the Lib’s are as low as they can go in the polls, (within reason) and when Kev does stuff something up big-time MT will pounce and all this other dribble by MT will be forgotten

    MT playing the game just fine and is no fool, Rudds just playing it better and is no fool either

  47. I should have added that Rudd also has the edge in that he is able to do things, MT has zip except for politics/policy development and politics.

    Too early to bring out any hard policy’s yet, so politics is all he has to go with. The whole, “well” we rufuse to have ex-Gitmo’s relocated to OZ would have sounded great to him and guess what, talk back radio/blogdome/MSM went nut’s with it so he was right to test the waters.

    Funny though, I wonder if most people stop to think that Hick’s is not only ex-Gitmo, but one of a few actually CONVICTED!… Majority wanted him back, wonder why so many peoples are afraid of the one’s never found guilty of anything

  48. I agree another girl. However, the problem for Turnbull is that it’s starting to look obvious.

    Turnbull’s current tactic of trying to beat something up from nothing is making him look a wee bit ridiculous.

    Here’s an idea for Turnbull..what about a few policies. But that won’t happen until the silly season is over. Until then we had better get used to reading all about Paris.

    I disagree that MT doesn’t care. He has to start the new year on a high note and so far he has done nothing and said nothing except to make a complete ass of himself.

  49. Apologies for the bad spelling and punctuation, right now I’m doing my part to live up to the expectations of my Government by actively participating as one of those of the “generation lost to binge drinking l” 😀

  50. Yes another girl..The whole, “well” we rufuse to have ex-Gitmo’s relocated to OZ would have sounded great to him and guess what, talk back radio/blogdome/MSM went nut’s with it so he was right to test the waters..would have been fine.

    The only problem is that the government had already stated the day prior that they would not be accepting detainees.

    And Talkback radio went NUTS over something that was yesterday’s news but that Talkback radio failed to correct viz factual information. Now who would have thought…..

  51. True Min – he’s trying but the guy he’s up against is better at this then he is, he keeps getting trapped. The moment I saw that Gitmo story I knew what was going to happen yet it seems MT, in all his haste, didn’t

    Scary when you consider what my brains been through in the last week 😉

  52. Eeeekkk. Doesn’t anyone read the papers. The government stated last Friday that we’re not going to accept any of the detainees from Gitmo.

    Good grief..do I have to provide the link again. I cannot believe that people are still debating the ins and outs of a duck’s bum when it ain’t goin’ to happen.

    Just in case the previous links were too obscure, here is another one. http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gEP4UHvtF9LNxbJqSR6wUF1694TA And to quote: The Australian government on Saturday formally rejected a US request to help resettle former detainees of the Guantanamo Bay detention facility.

  53. MIn 53

    Yep I know, dumbfounds me also. Story keeps going and going yet the Gov answered it firmly days ago … amazing isn’t it

  54. Hello another girl. Must admit that mine are also a wee bit addled. T’is the silly season. Of course Rudd is better than Turnbull. Turnbull doesn’t understand Rudd so therefore is having big problems formulating any counter attack. Turnbull doesn’t understand that a person can be sincere/genuine/trying to do one’s best as Turnbull has only ever been in it for the dollar.

  55. MIn – would you believe that on Pollbludger this morning at 4-5am they were STILL arguing about what the Gov should do… even though it was decided days ago and put to the press

  56. Min 55

    Your right – Thats the key to the whole thing

    Rudd thinks “hmm what’s right, what works and then whats good politics”

    MT thinks “whats good politics”

  57. Another girl..I think that often some time people like to chat amongst themselves with little factual information to back it up. One thing about dear old Matty Price and then Tim’s blog is that they always insisted on references.

    William Bowe is of course a hero and with due respect to The Pollbludger, there are far too many 10 word sentences for the 200+ statements to make much sense.

  58. Min from your link:

    “Gillard, however, emphasised that Australia remained open to future US requests, and would assess resettlement cases on their merits.”

    The first move in politics is to build a ‘back-door’ – an escape if the situation changes. Gillard has done this.

    The situation is fluid. If Obama puts the heat on we will yield; albeit with a good dose of spin.

    Personally I can’t see what the fuss is about because we have our own home-grown war criminals and the only reason they won’t face trial is because they are on the most powerful side.

  59. Nature5..it’s ancient history. To reiterate: From: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gEP4UHvtF9LNxbJqSR6wUF1694TA The Australian government on Saturday formally rejected a US request to help resettle former detainees of the Guantanamo Bay detention facility.

    With apologies must choof as hubby is expecting to be fed. He is back to work tomorrow, so am hoping to have some time to catch up. But…the painter arrives tomorrow..

    3 quotes. The 1st 2 turned up in trousers and shirts, the 3rd bloke turned up in t-shirt and stubbies. The 1st two blokes said what they couldn’t/wouldn’t do, the 3rd bloke told us what he could do. Guess who got the job.

  60. think that often some time people like to chat amongst themselves with little factual information to back it up

    unlike here 😉

  61. Well..I think that most of us are well trained and do provide links. And at least we can formulate sentences (often) more meaningful than expletive/expletive, if he/she expletive/expletive and double expletive. Ah well, more often than not.

    As per previous must choof as Greek lamb dinner is waiting attention..however hubby has just offered to pop them on the bbq. Sigh, aren’t I lucky..such a good bloke.

    Whoops, sorry this has been off topic.

    Final statement re Turnbull. He gave the impression that he expected it to be handed to him on a platter (ably assisted by the Australian press). And so now Turnbull sits with platter in hand and doesn’t know what to do with it.

  62. Ok Min. not a problem (although it shines through that you have one with me). I was making a JOKE (ever heard of them) and in the original comment I was actually pointing the absurdity of what was said at PB(amongst others I might add) as I knew that it was absurd the same as you did since the Gov had already dismissed this as an option . But if you want to play this passive/aggressive crap then fine

  63. Another girl, Could you have made a mistake.?
    I’m having trouble seeing where that came from. I could be missing somthing but Min is not known to just snap and i can not see were she did at you.(just curious)

  64. Yep, your rightt Aqua…

    Sorry Min… bit pissed and quite annoyed at something going on in my house right now… blurred my few of what you said

    sorry

  65. few= view

  66. Back again. That’s ok another girl. It gets difficult in writing to know when people are being ironic..at least for me when I can’t see the person’s expression.

    And Nature5 and my own opinion is that I believe that Australia does have some responsibility in this matter. A fairly good summary in today’s Oz http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24871994-7583,00.html Beware of Gitmo’s shameful guardians…”Each of these steps has since been found or acknowledged to be unlawful. Guantanamo Bay was held not to be a legal black hole and its residents are entitled to the protections of the writ of habeas corpus.

    The interrogation techniques were withdrawn by Rumsfeld when the navy’s then chief lawyer, Alberto Mora, with support from other defence force lawyers, pointed out that they were illegal.

    The military commissions, in Bush’s original form, were struck down by the Supreme Court as unlawful.

    Through all of this, Australia, through its then prime minister and attorneys-general, endorsed each and every step of the Bush administration as the path to justice and the fair go.”.

  67. Just read that myself Min. History is going to be very damning of the Bush administration and rightly so, along with Howard’s implicitness in fully supporting without question everything the Bush administration did.

    ——————-
    I sometimes get a little miffed when posters after an exchange say “I was only joking”, and even worse, “Can’t you tell I was only joking”, as though it was obvious.

    We are not mind readers (as much as the wingnuts pretend they know what other posters are thinking and feeling) and unless a poster puts in a smiley, a wink or states their post is not serious, then how are the readers supposed to know if a serious looking post is not serious?

  68. I must admit that I learnt the hard way that irony/sarcasm doesn’t translate into writing. Eons ago I wrote a letter ‘thanking’ a bureaucrat for ‘all the assistance’…all tongue in cheek. This was during a complaints process for children with disabilities. This then came back to haunt me as some months later the bureaucrat could then claim that I didn’t have a problem because I had thanked him for all of his assistance.

  69. Min and Adrian

    I have thrown a thread up on Keim’s article.

  70. Legion’s swarovski crystal disco ball says we WILL be taking some of the Cuban comrades in disarms, but they’ll be having a wee holiday on Christmas Island, first, before making Mainland footfall; so they can brush up on their Strine and who the bloody ‘eck ‘the Don’ is, and have all their health needs double-checked, and the Aussie public can get used to the idea that they’re all bonza imports, and such. Baby steps…first get them here…then slip them into the mainstream.

  71. Still wonder what the real purpose of the Christmas Island maximum security prisondetention centre. It was always way over engineered and priced for just holding asylum seekers for processing, and in some aspects it was modelled on Gitmo.

    Then there were the occasions US authorities came over to inspect it both during the final construction phases and when it was completed.

    Methinks if Howard had won the last election there would have been ex-Gitmo inmates having a holiday on Christmas Island right now.

    Wonder if the Rudd government will ever release the info on this or if we have to wait 30 years.

  72. Adrian. Of course. Howard was modelling his Pacific Solution on Guantanamo, hence the reason for excising the Islands. Same as Gitmo, so as to deny asylum seekers access to the Australian justice system. Same as Gitmo.

    Must choof, hubby has just arrived home.

  73. Adrian – “unless a poster puts in a smiley, a wink or states their post is not serious, then how are the readers supposed to know if a serious looking post is not serious?”

    I don’t like using smiley logos, dot faces smoking, or dot faces wearing sunglasses. I don’t understand them.

    I always think it is much safer to treat everyone, as I prefer to be treated. As a joke, not to be taken seriously, hopefully provocative and annoying but very cynical.

  74. “I always think it is much safer to treat everyone, as I prefer to be treated. As a joke, not to be taken seriously, hopefully provocative and annoying but very cynical..”

    Agree! Can’t wait for the post on ‘PRIVACY’

    Me?. I prefer to be sceptical or at least skeptical. ‘Cynical’ has such negative connotations. Tom you need to travel more – broaden your horizons – discover the real Australia.

    Fancy doing the Canning? Tents, Eskys and, of course, Flies supplied. Including one for your tent! Cheap! Very, very cheap. Special, just for You. Interested?

    Given the recent rain, ‘bog’ takes on a new meaning

  75. Nature 5 – “Fancy doing the Canning?”

    What’s that?

    Are there beaches, wineries? What are the restaurants like?

    I’ve heard of people sleeping in tents. If I wanted that I’d have joined the army and gone on a bivouac.

    Canvas is useful for tennis shoes, certainly not for sleeping under.

  76. Finally worked up the courage to come back here and read the comments after my disgraceful comments previous(hope you got that email Min?).

    Such a nice bunch you lot are. (myself excluded, naturally)

    (once again, so very, very sorry Min)

    Jane

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