Misleading headline – this is now a anti-good-news thread.

The headline in this article is very misleading.

The headline tries to imply something that Rudd did not do. In the article Rudd says that they have no plans to cut GST – which is different than saying that they rule it out.

Poor reporting, if you ask me.

55 Responses

  1. I thought it was crap when the idea was floated by Lew earlier this week…in fact I do not see any reason yet why this stimulus is needed in a couple of weeks although I would like to see the people on pensions and the not so well off families getting a boost.

    I like the bit about not encouraging to purchase local goods…to me buying Australian is keeping jobs and what pisses me off is the amount of subsidised goods being dumped here that lead to established local producers going to the wall.


    “Mr Mentha said the companies had all been hurt by higher feed costs caused by the drought and increased competition from subsidised importers selling frozen ham.”

    What we need is PM that stands for our interests, not using the position as a stepping stone to the UN secretary general!

  2. Gee, this thread is quiet so I might just hijack it and talk to myself this weekend…I think I’ll refer to it as the “scaper pit.”

    OK…I’ll think I’ll start mild then work myself into a frenzy…I see that the movie, “Australia” is not going so hot at the box office…it just shows that you can throw as much into a production but not realise a substantial return.


    Actually, it kind of reminds me of this financial thingy.

    A heart starter for the people that might have over indulged last night.

    Music break.


  3. Moderation eh…I see that the terrorists originated from Pakistan which no matter way you look at it, it will sour relations between these two nations even more!

    I wonder how many years before Pakistan becomes a radical Muslim state with their hands on nukes…my guess would be most probably three or four and how would they use the nukes to do the most damage?

    Now if I was devious I would detonate a cluster of nukes in the central Pacific Ocean to effect the maximum damage caused by the gigantic tsunamis it would create that would wipe out the surrounding coastlines.

  4. Paul Kelly has an interesting piece in The Australian today.


    IR legal experts report that employers hoping to create non-union enterprise agreements, a cause absolutely fundamental to genuine enterprise bargaining, have only a remote hope.

    Third, the new right-of-entry provisions for unions are extraordinary and unacceptable in a democracy. Freehills says that union right of entry to businesses “will be significantly broader”.

    Unions will have right of entry to premises where they have no members, and they will be able to inspect the records of individuals who are non-members where this relates to a suspected contravention.

    Any union that comes on to any of my sites will be ejected by my guys as they have no right to be there…we are very big on safety and the guys are paid well over the award and have no time for unions!

  5. I see there was a good response to the “give me some good news” thread…I reckon it is high time that there was a ” what pisses me off’ thread”…there is plenty of subject material out there at the moment and there needs to be a place for Blogocrats to vent their spleens…this sand pit is good a place as any I suppose.

  6. Holy crap scaper! that last paragraph is some morbid sh!t dude.
    You seem to have given it some thought. I must say, quite a unique plan for causing widespread carnage. Hopefully it won’t come to that eh?
    I did read somewhere this morning that they thought maybe it was Kashmir related & that British nationals are involved but I think it’s still too early to filter fact from fiction as this massacre in Mumbai goes through the inevitable spin cycle.

  7. I mean the paragraph about nuking the ocean to cause tsunamis BTW, not your above posts.

  8. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24724073-601,00.html

    RELATIONS between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan were under severe strain last night as a terrorist from the co-ordinated attacks on Mumbai confessed he was Pakistani, saying the onslaught was carried out by the al-Qa’ida-linked Lashkar-e-Toiba, which has links to Pakistan’s premier spy agency, the ISI.

    This article is pretty convincing though…

  9. The sand in this pit is very abrasive…enter at your own risk.

  10. Sandpits are cool. I could defecate & bury it like a cat, figuratively of course.

  11. If you do that the sand will turn purple which could be embarrassing.

  12. LOL, burst grapes?

  13. Paul Kelly’s diatribe is simply a summary of the Freehills’ view of the world. Let’s not forget that Freehills were chosen by the Rodent as the chief legal firm used in the desigining of WCs.

    It’s called being a bad loser. Unions BOO.

    Scaper if you want a balanced view of the word you don’t go to the Opposition Organ. Even the other link re India and Pakistan is less than convincing,

  14. A couple of days ago on the education devolution thread I decided to visit next door to glean some information on the pay structure and got an interesting insight on what will eventuate if this thing gets up.

    These teachers have over thirty years experience so I will take their word opposed to some of the lounge chair critics on that other thread…they basically said if this thing comes off there will be massive resignations and it will encourage the teachers to cheat to lift the class performance.

    My problem is if this damage eventuates can it be undone?

  15. I repeat…if any union comes on my sites they will be removed!

    I’m not anti union, they just have no place in my business.

    Do you really believe that Pakistan nationals or Al Qaida had nothing to do with this…I stand by my post.

  16. I think the desire to link any terrorist attacks back to Al Qeada just gives them oxygen. They are criminals – full stop. And should be treated as such.

  17. Scaper I take it you are referring to performance pay as determined by student achievements? That won’t happen, teachers will get performance pay based on how they rate on ‘professional standards (which are yet to be finalised).

    As for mass resignations – highly unlikely – the turnover is pretty high already but that is likely to decline given the economic situation. Teachers, for example, will delay retirement because their super has been whacked by about one quarter.

  18. I was relating the opinions of two teachers in the industry which are in a better position than I to gauge the outcome if this whatever comes to light.

  19. Great idea scaper..keep those pesky unions off site. In fact threaten reps with violence. Sorry, I don’t have very much sympathy as a couple of J’s work mates were very nearly decapitated due to failure of management to follow safety procedures. Just missed by yay much, but luckily someone heard the sound of the crusher. Oh yes, and the young bloke this week who lost a leg on a construction site.

  20. As the principal contractor on domestic sites as soon as the contractual obligations are completed I have possession of that site and am responsible for the movement of people and goods thereof…under the law I can order anyone off and if they refuse I can use what force necessary especially as I determine a threat, to restrain until the police arrive to remove such person.

    As far as safety goes…the only injuries sustained has been myself as I have a duty of care and all dangerous works are performed by myself!

    I have seen first hand the threats and violence dealt out by the BLF in the eighties and nineties so don’t give me that crap!!!

  21. I repeat…if any union comes on my sites they will be removed!

    What are you scared of? Joining a union is a right that everyone should have access to, even employers have their ‘unions’, do you belong to a business organisation?.
    If the employees are happy with the status quo and no-one wants to join a union, then it should not be a problem, their choice. But if employees wish to join a union and have them discuss issues – why shouldn’t they? I always wonder what such anti-union bosses have to hide – is it their management, their dodgy practices or non adherence to employer obligations.

    Ross Gittins says it well, I put the quote on the other thread, but the discussion seems to be here.

    Why Gillard’s Fair Work Bill is a fair cop:


    “Most of these provisions have been retained in Fair Work, although much publicity has been given to the decision to permit union representatives to enter work sites where they have no members but there are workers eligible to be members.

    Only someone who regarded the role of unions as fundamentally illegitimate could worry about this. In practice it will mean little.

    More than 80 per cent of enterprises don’t have a union presence. This is partly because the workers in those enterprises don’t have a great desire to join a union and partly because unions don’t have the resources to organise the many small sites.

    Some employer groups are arguing that since only 14 per cent of private sector employees are union members, unions should be given no rights. A more sensible attitude would be that, since the union movement is in serious decline, any rights it’s given will make little difference.

    Fair Work’s modest modification of Work Choices’s anti-union provisions is likely to make a difference only in enterprises with a union presence that management is seeking to end. The American-led Telstra, for instance.”

  22. I have seen first hand the threats and violence dealt out by the BLF in the eighties and nineties so don’t give me that crap!!!

    Talk about living in the past. Move on, the world, employers, employees and unions have changed over the last two decades.

    How many unionists and employees have seen first hand the threats and violence dealt out by corrupt employers and/or their hired headkickers (get others to do the dirty work, gotta keep up the appearance of solid citizen and have nothing come back on them personally – just like the mafia)?

  23. Afraid…are you f**king kidding me???

    The union has no business being on a domestic site unless invited by myself or one of my employees…if they want to enforce the pay rates and conditions on me then my staff will have to take a substantial cut and they don’t want that.

    The only officials who has right of entry is the BSA (Building Services Authority) and Workplace Health and Safety…no one else.

  24. Spot on scaper…Unless invited by one of your employees. You have no right to make threats against any of your employees nor against any of their designated representatives.

  25. Living in the past…f**k me dead!!!

    I just love the naive people that think there is no graft on commercial sites concerning the unions…it’s the way business is being done and always will be…that is why I do not touch commercial crap!

  26. Threats against my employees???

    I have never threatened any of them…I lead by example and treat people with respect, regardless what I think of them…none of my guys would touch a union with a three metre screed.

    They are needed because of the greedy bastard bosses out there and there is plenty of them, but not in my setup and I stand by my comment that they will be removed from my site!!!

  27. Scaper

    “The only officials who has right of entry is the BSA (Building Services Authority) and Workplace Health and Safety…no one else.”

    I agree. And any concerns unions may have should go through the proper channels to these agencies.

  28. Just a comment on scaper (if I must).

    I guess we have all had good bosses and bad bosses, but it seems to me that scaper would be one of the good bosses.

    Sure – he is tough on you when you do wrong, and would give you a bollocking, but I reckon that he stands by his people when things are tough and his employees would do the same for him.

    Just my observation – that’s all.

  29. Scaper. I am certain that your employees realize your opinion against them having any representatives on site. Quote: I repeat…if any union comes on my sites they will be removed!
    This is intimidation and against the law.

  30. Scaper covered if they are invited he would not refuse entry to unions. I believe he shows balance at work and in his comments about his employees. The emotions in his coment should not be taken as a war against unions.

    If this was someone other than Scaper I would agree. But from what i have read about him i have no reason to think otherwise.

  31. Scaper

    Here’s an exception to my previous comments, 3 months after Dianne Beamer raised concerns in parliament on behalf of unions a security officer was shot dead. His death could have been prevented, and my concern goes to the fact that the Minister for IR and WorkCover ignored warnings.

    Ms BEAMER (Mulgoa) [5.16 p.m.]: I wish to inform the House of matters relating to the security industry that were brought to my attention by a constituent. The constituent raised particular concerns about the action of Chubb Security Services. As many honourable members would be aware, driving armoured vehicles is an occupation that can often be fraught with danger. The delivery of cash to financial institutions and pay offices has always needed trained staff with adequate protection, both in equipment and numbers of personnel. In a push to reduce costs, Chubb Security Services has been insisting, no doubt at the behest of some of its big clients, such as banks, on reducing its costs, and in doing so a number of people have been placed at risk. The number of security officers and the type of vehicles that are used have changed. This has led to some horrific incidents.

    A cash transit route that had previously called for a three to four person armoured vehicle with an escort was reduced to a one to two person crew in a soft skin courier van. This vehicle was stopped as it slowed down to go over a speed bump. The two security officers were dragged out of the vehicle and bashed with baseball bats. This is not an isolated incident, but no previous incidents have been recorded on this route. The Transport Workers Union raised these concerns with WorkCover, and was very disappointed with the lack of action taken by that body. The union also wrote to the Minister for Industrial Relations, the Hon. John Della Bosca, and outlined its concerns. The letter stated:
    … union delegates met with management from Chubb Security Services where we were informed that Chubb had won a major new contract involving cash collections from Westpac business clients. We were further informed that as our safety standards were too rigorous the work would be contracted out to another division of Chubb known as Chubb Protective Services working under dramatically different safety standards.

    The letter went on to state that in some cases there was no training of staff at all. It continued:

    The potentially devastating effect on those involved in an armed robbery situation whether loss of life occurs or not should be clear, yet despite detailed evidence being provided to WorkCover to our knowledge no action has been taken other than an ongoing consideration of the matter.
    The customers of security firms are being ripped off. I am informed that Chubb Security Services employs a franchise that has great difficulty doing its job successfully on behalf of Chubb clients. This is due to the fact that the company has decided to change its standards. For example, Chubb recently took over Metropolitan Security Services [MSS]. All MSS cars carry control units to record the time and date of each visit to a site. That information was then downloaded and tracked by office staff during each shift.

    When Chubb took control of MSS, the Smartguard System was the first thing to be abolished. The reasons for that are clear: Chubb is ripping off its customers by not providing a proper service. An ex-employee of the company tells of how he was informed of a new client but, when he asked when he would start servicing that client, was told, “Don’t worry, you’ve been doing it for a month and you will be paid for that.” That company was billed for 27 days worth of work that was not carried out. There is no mechanism to identify whether the company is doing its duty.

    To sound impressive, Chubb tells its clients how many patrol cars are on the road to service them. However, that figure includes the cars of managers and supervisors, who are not on the road. Alarms that are activated out of hours are directed to an on-call officer, who must wake up, take the call, put on his uniform and then drive to the site. That is not acceptable when companies are paying for a service they believe will protect their premises. According to a previous employee, most zones are overloaded. I believe that WorkCover should investigate this company’s safety standards and that we should consider introducing a system to protect workers. This is a matter of grave concern to all those working in the industry.

  32. Agreed, if it was someone other than scaper who made the comment quote: I repeat…if any union comes on my sites they will be removed!

    Scaper obviously didn’t mean it.

  33. *There is no mechanism to identify whether the company is doing its duty.
    There are key registers. A key is inserted into the hole and turned on each visit. it records the times and how many visits and even what time the alarm activated and what time the guard attended. Systems such as these have been in place for over 12 years. (similar to clocking on with a card)

  34. Min, they can join a union if they like…no skin off my nose but if that was to happen then I will adhere strictly to the pay scale and conditions.

    No more being paid to eat lunch.

    No more ten minute breaks every hour of hard toil.

    No more franked bonuses.

    No more getting paid after they finish the tasks set for the day and going home early.

    No more hour off with pay on Friday afternoons.

    No more on the job and business management training and sponsorship to start their own businesses.

    I’m a businessman…I have to not only have to have a grasp of all building trades and standards, I have to be an accountant and have an understanding of contractural law and most importantly the law that relates to not only my rights but ensure the rights of my employees.

    Don’t look down your nose at me and tell me what is or not against the F**king law!!!!

  35. Scaper. I thought that you were a friend. How can you possibly say that I look down my nose at you. As you know hubby and I are disabled persons. Hubby with polio and me hearing impaired. I’m sorry that you’re so angry.

  36. Min.
    I feel bad you got that after comment 32.

  37. I deeply apologise for my last post, Min.

  38. I bet its one of those days for you Scaper. Hope it gets better buddy 🙂

    Looking after a guys dog while he dose a month in jail. Anyway his dog has managed to find every clean piece of carpet a pooped on it. I have to get new carpet as there is only little of it left after i cut squares out everytime.

  39. Min @ 35

    I sincerely hope you and your husband are doing well. May all your troubles be little ones.

  40. I hope I’m still allowed to bury stuff in your sandpit while you’re away scaper.

  41. All this “but if it was anybody else but scaper” stuff strikes me as strange. He seems an angry man to me, full of threats and menace, ready to fly off the handle at the slightest provocation. You people have known him longer then I have so I take that into consideration. But in these last few weeks, all I’ve seen is aggression in various ugly ways. Am I willing to take his word on it that he gives his employees the things he say’s he does? … not on what I’ve seen

    Angry reactionary and menacing behavior demonstrated regularly, perhaps there’s more to him then what he writes, I certainly hope so.

  42. “Angry reactionary and menacing behavior demonstrated regularly, perhaps there’s more to him then what he writes, I certainly hope so”

    I think so. He is a good man.

    The anger surprises me too though. Especially from someone so driven to highlight the need for less abuse on blogs & drawing attention to efforts to head in that direction.

    On balance of history I definitely believe that scaper has his employees best interests at heart. Maybe the union thing has hit a raw nerve?

  43. Toiletboss (luv the name btw)

    Like I said, I hope so. Perhaps he’s going through a difficult time or some such. Seems to have a lot of respect around here which i assume doesn’t just happen, so it must be based on something. Perhaps I “met” him at a bad time

    Hopefully, after he’s had a rest, I will get to see the “good scaper” I read about round here

  44. another girl, it’s not only scaper but this time of year stress builds up in most people, its misleading to call it the happy season untill the holiday starts.

    You will see this at one stage in most of us. I hope in time youll see the Scaper we all know.

    Maybe if you ever had time you could read the history of Tim.D’s old site. 🙂

  45. another girl:

    Hello. You are absolutely right, of course, to judge someone by what they write. As much as a writer might try to disguise their true personality, their style will eventually reveal the truth.

    That said, the worth of the writer is in the reader. Put another way, what you read into scaper’s words, for example, might be worlds apart from my own interpretation. It could depend on your mood, your own personality, or even your view on the topic in question.

    style is the writer, and therefore what you are, rather than what you know, will at last determine your style.

  46. Well said Tony.

  47. Oliver Strunk: ‘The Elements of Style’


  48. Now i can get back to doing my cartwheels in a g-string

  49. Tony I hear what your saying, but honestly, I cant for the life of me see where my perspective is clouding the intent in post’s #34 # 26 #25 #23 #15 #3 for example (thats just for this thread, there are many others)

    I’m off now anyway, have to start work at 12 so will say goodnight to those lucky enough not to be going to work in an hour or so, like me, :tears:

  50. Great link Tony. Properly constructed sentences are much easier to digest & generally help to convey a point more lucidly.
    Your link reminded me how much I need to brush up.

    I do think a little shorthand is inevitable on blogs however.

    Definitely agree with you about “style”, particularly when you are somewhat familiar with an author. Styles become recognisable & is not something that is easy to slip out of without deliberate effort or calculated disguise.

    Off to work now. Take it easy all.

  51. “I’m off now anyway, have to start work at 12 so will say goodnight to those lucky enough not to be going to work in an hour or so, like me, :tears:”AGAP

    Yup, at dawn we sleep…just like der Nosferatu.

    Alas, it’s where the money is. Glad I’m not the only socially maladjusted, out of synch shiftworker here, hehe.

    aquanut@48…LOL…don’t strain yourself.

  52. another girl:

    On first (and second) reading, those comments you mention don’t offend me. That’s real proof of our respective perspective (I like the sound of that) clouding the intent.

    Now, whose perspective is right or wrong – that’s what political debate is made of.

    Have a good night at work. Hope to resume dialogue real soon. 🙂

  53. Hey Buffalo Man. Have a great shift. Talk again soon. (I might dip my toe into one of the political threads soon. Not yet though.)

  54. 34. scaper… | November 29, 2008 at 2:13 pm
    Min, they can join a union if they like…no skin off my nose but if that was to happen then I will adhere strictly to the pay scale and conditions.

    What’s wrong with them being in a union and you still being one of the decent bosses who allows the conditions that you describe – other bosses do.

    There was threat and menace in your writing scaper and if that is the way that you carry on around your employees it is no wonder that none of them will have anything to do with a union – because the boss won’t allow it! There’s a lot of workplaces like that, the boss demonises and opposes unions so much and so openly that the employees know that they should not dare join a union or invite the union in to the workplace – they will be sacked immediately or at the very next opportunity.

    Just like the wingnuts who are happy with the curtailing of our civil liberties in the guise of protecting national security, I have to say…If you’re not doing anything wrong, then you have no need to worry about them.

  55. Hey here’s a clue, lets get rid of the GST altogether. The Libs and Lathams team said that it would be impossible to reverse, if one can reduce it, then they can reduce it to NIL. Here is our opportunity to get rid of a Tax that even Accountants find hard to nail down.

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